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  1. #13981
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klaue's Mixtape View Post
    Coogler is near GOAT status on his medium. What he and Chad accomplished is not to be tainted because of a screwup after his death.
    No matter how you cut the sh*t up I'm calling out the slander. Especially people who had no problems months ago let alone before Boseman death.

    The sus posts are just that.

    The Go along get along gang are popping up to seek validation because T'Challa was a lead in an ensemble instead of a lone standout.

    And is it really nerfing of T'Challa's intelligence instead of them just making Shuri OD instead? I swear yall talk about him like he was an idiot at times (NO I know yall aint said that, but thats how it reads sometimes)

    Be mad that Shuri is made the smartest in the MCU. Not that T'Challa wasnt a genius. He delegated. He has other ish to focus on.
    No one is disputing Coogler or Chad’s greatness. People are just taking issue with aspects of T’Challa’s characterization in light of the fact Marvel is A. Prematurely ending the character’s live action journey potentially for decades (no one knows if a reboot is ever even happening anymore) and B. How it is now infecting other BP appearances.

    Trying to construe it as an attack against their character is simply gross, especially with Chadwick. For all the criticisms folks in this thread have, not one time have people said Chadwick did anything wrong, didn’t love the character, or didn’t knock it out the park. You’re trying to personalize film criticism because you don’t like the criticism. It’s weird and overly defensive, bordering on disrespectful.

    There’s nothing sus about saying it was a profoundly wrong to not depict T’Challa’s traditional intelligence or forward-looking ideals. And it definitely isn’t wrong to say that now that Marvel has decided not to recast, T’Challa across every medium is trapped with what is essentially an incomplete portrayal. No one has said T’Challa was stupid, but when Falcon’s got more onscreen tech feats than a guy who’s a peer to Reed Richards in the comics, yea you’re gonna hear some criticism. Perfectly valid and literally no other fanbase gets criticism for pointing out inaccuracies and how it’s harming portrayals in other mediums, let alone being accused of spitting on celebrated black creators.

    And Shuri being the smartest isn’t even the problem, it was the complete sidelining of one of T’Challa’s greatest traits. She can be the smartest person in the MCU if that’s the goal, the desire of most fans has been for T’Challa to be shown explicitly and unashamedly as a genius. How he pairs up against Shuri has never mattered to me as long as T’Challa isn’t shown 100% relying on others for all his tech feats.

  2. #13982
    Ultimate Life Form BlackClaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingNomarch View Post
    Also with the exception of most Spider-Man cartoons, Marvel for some reason has been doing only ensembles cartoons. T'Challa will likely appear in Avengers cartoons. The closes to a BP animated series that we'll have is BP's Quest which was just season 5 of AA. You could count the motion comic adaption of WitBP. Marvel Studios creating their own animated division is likely why we haven't gotten any news on any new animated series not connected to the MCU. Before the Nate Moore interview, a prequel cartoon focusing on T'Challa's first 8 years as BP before CW would've been cool like the Spider-Man one they announced. But right now the most we can expect from T'Challa is a variant guest appearing in a cartoon or a movie.

    Outside the comics, I think T'Challa's future lies in videogames. Fingers crossed that he gets a game set in the same universe as the Spider-Men games and Wolverine or appear in a game set in that universe.




    For now but I'd prefer Hunter to come back and lead them, that's when they were their most interesting. Now they're essentially pointless. They're treated as expendable foot soldiers while the Dora went from bodyguards to special forces, leading armies, and whatever other new roles writers choose to give them. They need to go back to being a covert unit. Next time marvel tries to do another side BP book I wouldn't be opposed to it focusing on the HZ. They already tried and failed multiple times with the Dora and Shuri, might as well give the HZ a chance focusing on Akili and a team of HZ, make it an espionage book.
    That’s the hope as well. But after GOTG I wouldn’t mind Eidos Montreal taking a crack at it. Plus the more consoles, the wider reach said game would have in terms of audience.
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  3. #13983
    Ultimate Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingNomarch View Post
    Also with the exception of most Spider-Man cartoons, Marvel for some reason has been doing only ensembles cartoons. T'Challa will likely appear in Avengers cartoons. The closes to a BP animated series that we'll have is BP's Quest which was just season 5 of AA. You could count the motion comic adaption of WitBP. Marvel Studios creating their own animated division is likely why we haven't gotten any news on any new animated series not connected to the MCU. Before the Nate Moore interview, a prequel cartoon focusing on T'Challa's first 8 years as BP before CW would've been cool like the Spider-Man one they announced. But right now the most we can expect from T'Challa is a variant guest appearing in a cartoon or a movie.

    Outside the comics, I think T'Challa's future lies in videogames. Fingers crossed that he gets a game set in the same universe as the Spider-Men games and Wolverine or appear in a game set in that universe.




    For now but I'd prefer Hunter to come back and lead them, that's when they were their most interesting. Now they're essentially pointless. They're treated as expendable foot soldiers while the Dora went from bodyguards to special forces, leading armies, and whatever other new roles writers choose to give them. They need to go back to being a covert unit. Next time marvel tries to do another side BP book I wouldn't be opposed to it focusing on the HZ. They already tried and failed multiple times with the Dora and Shuri, might as well give the HZ a chance focusing on Akili and a team of HZ, make it an espionage book.
    I dunno of anyone here remembers starwars republic commandos but that's how I see the HZ. They are the one that go behind enemy lines and take the threat out from the inside. If the Doras are arc troopers then the HZ are the commandos. That's how it should be. DM lead the charge with the WK army and the HZ destroy them from behind enemy lines

  4. #13984
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackClaw View Post
    That’s the hope as well. But after GOTG I wouldn’t mind Eidos Montreal taking a crack at it. Plus the more consoles, the wider reach said game would have in terms of audience.
    I think a BP game would largely depend on what kind of direction they want to go in. I’m partial to a really well developed open world Wakanda hub but with missions that sometimes take you abroad to other major cities/regions of the world. I think Eidos Montreal would really capture the Jack Kirby elements of the BP mythos well with their design team. Something colorful, bold, and really alien-looking would be a really great aesthetic for a BP game set in Wakanda interspersed with settings that are a bit darker and grittier. Idk, I think something that tries to reconcile the Priest-era spymaster T’Challa with Kirby-era bombast could be interesting. Kinda like that Grayson run from DC a while back, but with a whole afrofuturistic aesthetic.

  5. #13985
    Ultimate Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klaue's Mixtape View Post
    Coogler is near GOAT status on his medium. What he and Chad accomplished is not to be tainted because of a screwup after his death.
    No matter how you cut the sh*t up I'm calling out the slander. Especially people who had no problems months ago let alone before Boseman death.

    The sus posts are just that.

    The Go along get along gang are popping up to seek validation because T'Challa was a lead in an ensemble instead of a lone standout.

    And is it really nerfing of T'Challa's intelligence instead of them just making Shuri OD instead? I swear yall talk about him like he was an idiot at times (NO I know yall aint said that, but thats how it reads sometimes)

    Be mad that Shuri is made the smartest in the MCU. Not that T'Challa wasnt a genius. He delegated. He has other ish to focus on.
    Dude you gotta chill. Chief said it best your taking this waaay to personal. Priest is the GOAT for comic side for T'Challa. He is NOT free of criticism. Same for Hudlin, RJ for the the BPQ. No BP scribe is free of criticism. Even Ridley who had a solid first issue still had criticisms from us. It doesn't mean they are bad (except Coates, and Mayberry) but it doesn't mean they get a pass either.

    You seem to be of the mindset that of we fans like something then there nothing wrong with it and of any legit criticism is made then we are being fickle which ain't it. Coogler and co knocked it out of the part. BP became a cultural movement, bigger than any other solo hero. Chadwick will always be the GOAT OG BP. However, Coogler made a massive mistake by giving T'Challas biggest characteristics to supporting cast who are so astronomically different from their comic counterpart they are OCs created by Coogler.

    Not only is Shuri the smartest person on the MCU (not a problem) they heavily downplayed T'Challas intelligence (huge problem) to prop her up. Coogler literally credited Shuri for making vibranium inert when that is something T'Challa did to stop Doom. He had her just blanket everything science related and that was stupid because it came at the cost of T'Challas attributes which, if Shuri is the new BP going forward, then she will take the rest of his fears and take over his story too.

    Coogler gave Nakia his core defining characteristic, being progressive and Forward thinking among a nation of xenophobic exceptional people. He saw that Wakanda could do more for the world And it IS his defining trait. Nakia got it now and it literally did not contribute major impact to the story other than to say "Nakia was right" which people rarely say that because of Erik. Those two core qualities being taken away is causing major damage to T'Challas character and is bleeding into other mediums.

    T'Chadwick is still the GOAT, the Black Panther movie is still legendary status, however, that comes at the cost of the franchise holder as we are seeing now which endgame wise is only going to hurt it

  6. #13986
    Ultimate Life Form BlackClaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    I think a BP game would largely depend on what kind of direction they want to go in. I’m partial to a really well developed open world Wakanda hub but with missions that sometimes take you abroad to other major cities/regions of the world. I think Eidos Montreal would really capture the Jack Kirby elements of the BP mythos well with their design team. Something colorful, bold, and really alien-looking would be a really great aesthetic for a BP game set in Wakanda interspersed with settings that are a bit darker and grittier. Idk, I think something that tries to reconcile the Priest-era spymaster T’Challa with Kirby-era bombast could be interesting. Kinda like that Grayson run from DC a while back, but with a whole afrofuturistic aesthetic.
    It would be great if the art direction reflected the Kirby era. And I can’t stress this enough, a video game would be the perfect place to showcase the more obscure villains like Kiber or Baron Macabre.
    T'Challa
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  7. #13987
    Fantastic Member Pulp Fiction's Avatar
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    MCU T’Challa isn’t a genius. There’s nothing there.

    MCU T’Challa had to get thrown down a waterfall before opening wakanda. That isn’t progressive

    MCU T’Challa isn’t a strategist. Every action he made was at the whim of others. Killmonger didn’t even have to try that hard.

    It is what it is. Dudes character got piecemeal’d. His most mainstream appearance and his character traits were handed out like thanksgiving turkey. It is what it is.
    Last edited by Pulp Fiction; 12-04-2021 at 02:43 AM.

  8. #13988
    Invincible Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Outside the comics, I think T'Challa's future lies in videogames. Fingers crossed that he gets a game set in the same universe as the Spider-Men games and Wolverine or appear in a game set in that universe.
    Redjacks cryptic message gave me 1% hope this could happen lol
    Black Panther Appreciation Blog: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.com/

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  9. #13989
    Mighty Member KingNomarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pulp Fiction View Post
    MCU TÂ’Challa isnÂ’t a genius. ThereÂ’s nothing there.

    MCU TÂ’Challa had to get thrown down a waterfall before opening wakanda. That isnÂ’t progressive

    MCU TÂ’Challa isnÂ’t a strategist. Every action he made was at the whim of others. Killmonger didnÂ’t even have to try that hard.

    It is what it is. Dudes character got piecemealÂ’d. His most mainstream appearance and his character traits were handed out like thanksgiving turkey. It is what it is.
    This is mostly true but I wouldn't say that he wasn't a strategic genius. He wasn't chessmaster T'Challa but still a strategist. The scene is in the forest is IMO the best showing of him being a strategist and showing off his other abilities. Disabling the trucks getting the traffickers out and wait for them to enter the woods. Something that doesn't get talked about much is that he took out two of them without them firing off a single shot despite their fingers already on the trigger. You could count that as both a skill and speed feat if you want. He nearly threw one of them through a truck and caused it to slide back, arguably his greatest strength feat. And while they're busy firing in the direction where the guy came from, he circled around them and begins taking them out. Another good example would be near the end when he used the force push to knock the border tribe soldiers into the air, grab one of the sonic spears that fell out of the trunk and use it to one shot the dragonflyer all to distract them from Nakia, Shuri, and Ross. Other than handing out T'Challa's traits, another problem was that Coogler and co took the McGregor approach and put too much emphasis on T'Challa being a good person. In the director's commentary he mentions T'Challa's super power is that he's a good person essentially giving us black Captain America. T'Challa's greatest asset should've been his mind, like Priest said, T'Challa's greatest ability is that he's the smartest guy in any room he's in and that wasn't the case under Coogler or the Russos.

    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    Redjacks cryptic message gave me 1% hope this could happen lol
    Same but I'm burnt out on hope all things BP related. At the very least expecting Ridley to at least give us a fun read.

  10. #13990
    Invincible Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingNomarch View Post
    In the director's commentary he mentions T'Challa's super power is that he's a good person essentially giving us black Captain America.
    I actually don't have a problem with this in regards to the MCU.

    With T'chaka living so long, he really has no reason to be hyper paranoid and if he didn't study abroad (idk if we have any indication he did) he wouldn't likely give a shit about the rest of the world too much.

    A good person + opening up Wakanda would have eventually given us the more "world wide helper" comic T'challa.

    We just never got the chance to see the Part 2 of his story. And never will. That is the problem. We never got to see him juggle protecting Wakanda and helping the world and the weight of that.
    Black Panther Appreciation Blog: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.com/

    T'challa's Greatest Comic Book Feats: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.c...her-feats.html

  11. #13991
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pulp Fiction View Post
    MCU T’Challa isn’t a genius. There’s nothing there.

    MCU T’Challa had to get thrown down a waterfall before opening wakanda. That isn’t progressive

    MCU T’Challa isn’t a strategist. Every action he made was at the whim of others. Killmonger didn’t even have to try that hard.

    It is what it is. Dudes character got piecemeal’d. His most mainstream appearance and his character traits were handed out like thanksgiving turkey. It is what it is.
    He was a genius, they just gave Shuri his comic level of genius. He designed the first Black Panther suit, and shuri improved it.

    They try to show how strategic genius/leadership in infinity war. It's all there, he really only got one movie though, which was more about challenging him philosophically.

  12. #13992
    On a Mission… DigiCom's Avatar
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    I don't care anymore. The BP franchise has become so negative people are starting to retroactively reject good stories because of what came later.

    I figure we are about 9 months from people blaming Priest for creating Okoye & the DM.

  13. #13993
    Ultimate Life Form BlackClaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigiCom View Post
    I don't care anymore. The BP franchise has become so negative people are starting to retroactively reject good stories because of what came later.

    I figure we are about 9 months from people blaming Priest for creating Okoye & the DM.
    This may be a silly comparison but this is reminding me of the time when Sonic fans turned on damn near every character that wasn’t Sonic or Eggman in the fallout of 06. Then later on everyone realized the characters themselves weren’t the problem, it was the way they were handled.
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  14. #13994
    Ultimate Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pulp Fiction View Post
    MCU T’Challa isn’t a genius. There’s nothing there.

    MCU T’Challa had to get thrown down a waterfall before opening wakanda. That isn’t progressive

    MCU T’Challa isn’t a strategist. Every action he made was at the whim of others. Killmonger didn’t even have to try that hard.

    It is what it is. Dudes character got piecemeal’d. His most mainstream appearance and his character traits were handed out like thanksgiving turkey. It is what it is.
    He is a genius as shown that he created his CW habot, however he wasn't shown to be a super genius I'm the same vein as Tony Shuri or banner. Which that was completely given to Shuri which was stupid.

    Giving the idea to open Wakanda to Nakia was a mistake as well which so tied directly to Coogler changing when T'Chaka died which was another critical mistake because it vastly changes how T'Challa operates. That would be like if Bruce Wayne's parents didn't die till he was older, he would or be the same character he is on comics either. Nakia didn't need to be the one driving the idea, that could of and should of came from T'Challa with her 100% on-board given her experience as a war dog.

    I disagree with the strategist part. We had several instances of that. From the trafficking scene to the car chase, to bugging Ross, to dropping the border tribe and the dragon flier to telling Shuri to turn on the trains.

    It's the main two that are the biggest most damaging changes to his character traits. Again Batman would be vastly different if his parent's survived until adulthood and his personality would be different. Those should NOT of happened, it essentially was Coogler playing into these tropes that black characters are limited in their depictions and this can't be shown at their full potential unlike their white counterparts.

  15. #13995
    Ultimate Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigiCom View Post
    I don't care anymore. The BP franchise has become so negative people are starting to retroactively reject good stories because of what came later.

    I figure we are about 9 months from people blaming Priest for creating Okoye & the DM.
    I don't think anyone is rejecting the story. It has NEVER been about the story being bad or Coogler as some hack or Chadwick not knocking out of the part as T'Challa. No one is saying that. We Are specifically criticizing how how character was portrayed in the first movie and how it's effecting him in other mediums. No one is above criticism.

    Even when the movie dropped, these complaints about his intelligence and him not being progressive like the comics were still there and expressed. We were more able to let it slide because we knew a sequel was coming and that was the chance to play up his super genius, and his more Priest like interpretation now that the first movie didn't have to introduce the cast and could focus more on T'Challas development as a character.

    However with Chads passing and no recast, those issues which were able to be tolerated are less so because now there's not chance to fix it.

    No one is bagging down on the movie, just specifically T'Challas key traits is what is being criticized and that's okay as they are legitimate complaints
    Last edited by Ezyo1000; 12-04-2021 at 09:28 AM.

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