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  1. #2506
    The Professional Marvell2100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cville View Post
    Anyone else reading U.S. Agent? Priest did some black social commentary in this issue and I think he did a better job of it than Coates has. His was more straightforward.
    Just got it today and I totally agree.

  2. #2507

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    Quote Originally Posted by XJlock View Post
    Reminds me very much of an image from ElfQuest...

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  3. #2508
    Incredible Member Klaue's Mixtape's Avatar
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    I may have to give the Ant Man films a rewatch today.

    Good to see Peyton Reed in support of Coates.
    https://twitter.com/MrPeytonReed/sta...31937960042497

    Industry people know.

  4. #2509
    Incredible Member Klaue's Mixtape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    I don't think MCU would do it like that though. Not usually a good idea to make your heroes unlikable.

    But, we could have missed out on T'challa coming in the room, and telling them that this is a horirble idea and will blow up in their face.

    :/
    That would have been dope.

  5. #2510
    Incredible Member Klaue's Mixtape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    What is funny is that people here are saying they don't like Coates no matter what he does. It's very clear it's about his fiction, and it's been made clear that his other work is fine. But apparently of you don't like Coates then you must hate black folks and want to keep them out of media. Instead of looking at the fact that bad fictional writers should not be rewarded for it
    I'm convinced that if Coates gets 85% hate (putting it kindly here) then Hudlin would have got about 60 to 65% as well. on this forum during his run (especially following Priest). Fans in general just seem to tough on things they dont love today. I shouldnt speak for you but I dont believe you really hate Coates writing. You just dont love it or really like it and it bothers you.

    Reminds me of The Last Jedi backlash. If its not great to you or what you expect so its deemed terrible or shitty. Naw it just doesnt capture your interest like it use to.

    People here are acting like he didnt improve/get comfortable over the years. Its just telling a false narrative cause he went a different direction from what you were expecting. And thats fine. You dont have to resort to hyperbole though.
    Last edited by Klaue's Mixtape; 02-28-2021 at 12:34 AM.

  6. #2511
    Astonishing Member Blind Wedjat's Avatar
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    Oh for f**k's sake. You can like Coates' work or you can dislike his work. This idea that you HAVE to like him because he's a black man doing important things is foolish and sounds like censorship.

  7. #2512
    Ultimate Life Form BlackClaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blind Wedjat View Post
    Oh for f**k's sake. You can like Coates' work or you can dislike his work. This idea that you HAVE to like him because he's a black man doing important things is foolish and sounds like censorship.
    That kind of caping sounds very reminiscent of how people defended Tyler Perry before they finally stopped giving passes for his garbage ass movies just because he’s Black.
    T'Challa
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    King of the Dead and The Champion of Bast
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  8. #2513
    Mighty Member Ekie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJlock View Post
    Alex Simmons on the History of Black Panther : https://www.marvel.com/articles/comi...rvel-unlimited




    Thats an excellent interview. Expressed many of the reasons im so obsessed with the character and his world.

  9. #2514
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klaue's Mixtape View Post
    I'm convinced that if Coates gets 85% hate (putting it kindly here) then Hudlin would have got about 60 to 65% as well. on this forum during his run (especially following Priest). Fans in general just seem to tough on things they dont love today. I shouldnt speak for you but I dont believe you really hate Coates writing. You just dont love it or really like it and it bothers you.

    Reminds me of The Last Jedi backlash. If its not great to you or what you expect so its deemed terrible or shitty. Naw it just doesnt capture your interest like it use to.

    People here are acting like he didnt improve/get comfortable over the years. Its just telling a false narrative cause he went a different direction from what you were expecting. And thats fine. You dont have to resort to hyperbole though.
    I'm glad you used the last jedi example. TLJ, like Coates FICTIONAL WORK (just so no one thinks this is just i hate Coates regardless or something) were both equally bad, not just from a franchise standpoint, but from a storytelling stance in general.

    Both of them were riddled with horrible plot holes that were extremely glaring, both went on weird tangents that wasted time that ultimately ended up being nonessential to the story, or plot. And both killed alot of goodwill by not building on what came before it but wanted to blaze it's own trail, continuity be damned, unfortunately this blazing trail led to a dead end.

    And no, I read Hudlins run right after Priests. It was. Different yes, however the core characteristics of T'Challa and how he operates were still the same, you could Look at Priest version and Hudlins and say yes, I recognize the character. Coates completely ignored T'Challas character traits and just forced whatever he wanted onto the story to push this plot along (which either moved at snail pace or break neck speed)

    And no, he didn't improve over the years. The same issues he had in S1 is the same issues we are seeing now 5 years later, same with his Cap, same with Crew, hell his fictional book he spent a decade on for a review saying the exact same thing we are saying now. Of anything, I would say that S1 seemed a more cohesive story than a 2 &3.

  10. #2515
    Mighty Member Ekie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klaue's Mixtape View Post
    I'm convinced that if Coates gets 85% hate (putting it kindly here) then Hudlin would have got about 60 to 65% as well. on this forum during his run (especially following Priest). Fans in general just seem to tough on things they dont love today. I shouldnt speak for you but I dont believe you really hate Coates writing. You just dont love it or really like it and it bothers you.

    Reminds me of The Last Jedi backlash. If its not great to you or what you expect so its deemed terrible or shitty. Naw it just doesnt capture your interest like it use to.

    People here are acting like he didnt improve/get comfortable over the years. Its just telling a false narrative cause he went a different direction from what you were expecting. And thats fine. You dont have to resort to hyperbole though.
    There are some of us who have been posting on this forum since hudlin. If you wanted to know the reaction just ask.
    Overall he enjoyed Headlands run and nitpick at a few things in the story we didn't like as consumers are free to do. I don't remember anybody in the forms but came away with the idea that hudlin didn't like the character of Tchalla.

  11. #2516
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klaue's Mixtape View Post

    People here are acting like he didnt improve/get comfortable over the years. Its just telling a false narrative cause he went a different direction from what you were expecting. And thats fine. You dont have to resort to hyperbole though.
    This is an example that shows up over and over again of Coates fans saying they enjoy his stuff but all they really are doing is attacking the other side.

    So here is your chance man, you got the stage.

    How did his writing improve over the years?

    IMHO, which is critiquing is writing and has nothing to do with him (is that still toxic???), Season 1 is where he peaked. He had a narratively consistent story where each issue pushed the story along (no matter how slowly), he somewhat built up each of the players for the finale, all the characters introduced had some important role, had his grand finale, and then an issue that served as "wrap it up" type of thing where he still left some narratives open to explore in the future.

    From there... his story telling got worse. Season 2 and 3 ignored the narratives built up in Season 1 and ignored the things left open in Season 1. Characters that were the focus of Season 1 were seemingly discared at a whim. Season 2 and 3 were filled with the same issue over and over again (S2 was "here is a portal, beat some monsters then close portal. S3 was "tchalla beats goons with narration + spaceships.") His stories were not progressing issue and issue. He relied more on "shocking" reveals than making his stories cohesive. Characters came and went with little importance or weight. Main villains were never established or were established and discarded quickly. The anagonist and protagonist barely interacted. They felt/feel much more amatuerish than season 1.
    Last edited by MindofShadow; 02-28-2021 at 05:53 AM.
    Black Panther Appreciation Blog: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.com/

    T'challa's Greatest Comic Book Feats: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.c...her-feats.html

  12. #2517
    The Professional Marvell2100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    I'm glad you used the last jedi example. TLJ, like Coates FICTIONAL WORK (just so no one thinks this is just i hate Coates regardless or something) were both equally bad, not just from a franchise standpoint, but from a storytelling stance in general.

    Both of them were riddled with horrible plot holes that were extremely glaring, both went on weird tangents that wasted time that ultimately ended up being nonessential to the story, or plot. And both killed alot of goodwill by not building on what came before it but wanted to blaze it's own trail, continuity be damned, unfortunately this blazing trail led to a dead end.

    And no, I read Hudlins run right after Priests. It was. Different yes, however the core characteristics of T'Challa and how he operates were still the same, you could Look at Priest version and Hudlins and say yes, I recognize the character. Coates completely ignored T'Challas character traits and just forced whatever he wanted onto the story to push this plot along (which either moved at snail pace or break neck speed)

    And no, he didn't improve over the years. The same issues he had in S1 is the same issues we are seeing now 5 years later, same with his Cap, same with Crew, hell his fictional book he spent a decade on for a review saying the exact same thing we are saying now. Of anything, I would say that S1 seemed a more cohesive story than a 2 &3.
    This is what I'm talking about. A Black Panther fan explains why he doesn't like Coates BP(which all of have done multiple times) and yet some Coates supporters will hand wave this away.

    Even when supporters try to counter argue the points made, it doesn't come close to refuting the complaints made about his writing:

    Mis-characterizing BP and Wakanda - a misogynistic nation that allows rape camps to flourish.
    Sidelining T'Challa in his own book to push other characters. Men are incapable unless they are the villains.
    Pacing of his story and not remembering his own canon. Things wind up not making any sense the longer the story goes on.
    Leaving it up to the artist to promote Afro-futurism which we still did not see.
    Bringing BP down to the level of villains instead of elevating the villains. Why is BP struggling with henchmen?
    Failure to understand the nature of writing cape-comics. In a solo hero's book, it's usually best to let him get the victory and not allow other characters to get those wins.

    I don't know how many times someone has done this same list and gone into more details with it only to have someone else come in here and say that we want Panther-god and call us hostile.

  13. #2518
    The Professional Marvell2100's Avatar
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    How many people want Brian Michael Bendis to write a Black panther solo?

  14. #2519
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    How many people want Brian Michael Bendis to write a Black panther solo?
    Black Panther as in Kasper Cole street level book lol? Then sure, 10 years ago!
    Black Panther Appreciation Blog: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.com/

    T'challa's Greatest Comic Book Feats: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.c...her-feats.html

  15. #2520
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    I enjoyed Hudlin's BP for the most part. Yes there were more than a few nits, throughout, as with any lengthy run, but it had a lot more hits than misses. Even when he got weird and meta, as with the entire Golden Frogs arc...it was still cohesive, comprehensive storytelling.
    I never felt as though the Black Panther, T'Challa, wasn't the star (even when he wasn't the main focus of the arc) of his own book. And... Hudlin respected Wakanda's history.
    We are MUTANT...One people. One tribe. One family...Krakoa and Arakko, FOREVER!!!

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