T'Challa: The Black Panther Appreciation 2021

[Marvell2100]

Ok, but most of those heroes have their own titles. Miles and Peter have the same title and he's very popular right now.

Sure. Falcon, Luke, War Machine all had their own titles. But they are a part of another heroes franchise. You won't get spin-offs from them or see many of their supporting casts or concepts appear outside of their titles.

That's why BP is unique. Right now he's the only Black superhero you can build a franchise around. We've seen spin-offs from the main BP title and we've seen concepts and characters from his world make it into other titles.

When vibranium is mentioned in another title, you think BP. When Wakanda is mentioned in another title, you think BP.

[chief12d]

I feel like Coates could've used a more already male-centric comic to point out sexism in society. However, he did have several male characters which some here don't seem to like that much

I though the movie focused too much on the supporting cast at T'Challa's expense. Outside of Shuri, Okoye and Ross, I didn't think all those characters needed so much screentime. But I agree it's more due to Boseman's passing there is a gender imbalance. I don't see it as some anti-male agenda, anymore than Black Panther as a whole series is some anti-White agenda.

Tbh, I don't think T'Challa needs to be a brutal, ruthless person. Mistrusting, wary or secretive, yeah, but I don't he needs to be antagonistic to other Avengers unless they start causing trouble first. Idk what exactly the game has planned for him

Yea it’s just the way things play out sometimes. Coates had his time to flesh out the characters he wanted and because this is Marvel there’s a good chance a lot of what he did gets ignored and Ridley does his own thing with his own iteration of T’Challa’s supporting cast. At the end of the day I just want the full spectrum of BP lore respected which naturally means that the black male characters who’ve defined certain eras of T’Challa’s publication get the chance to be developed and relevant just like the women should be. You and I can both agree it doesn’t have to be either-or and for the last 2 decades of Black Panther it mostly wasn’t.

I don’t think T’Challa’s brutal as in he’s needlessly violent and bloody, but I see him a lot like Wonder Woman in some of her more recent portrayals, he doesn’t have a huge issue using lethal force and he’s fine lying or using underhanded methods to protect Wakanda. That was a huge aspect of certain approaches to the character like Priest, Hudlin, and Geoff Johns so I think that if they want to differentiate their version of T’Challa from the MCU version, going with that approach would be interesting. It’s not like he’s not still a hero, he’s just not a paragon of virtue and justice, which could put him at odds with his more overtly heroic allies.

[CosmiComic]

Sure. Falcon, Luke, War Machine all had their own titles. But they are a part of another heroes franchise. You won't get spin-offs from them or see many of their supporting casts or concepts appear outside of their titles.

That's why BP is unique. Right now he's the only Black superhero you can build a franchise around. We've seen spin-offs from the main BP title and we've seen concepts and characters from his world make it into other titles.

When vibranium is mentioned in another title, you think BP. When Wakanda is mentioned in another title, you think BP.

Yeah, BP is definitely much more unique and identifiable than other Black hero franchises. No question about that. But I think it shouldn't just be up to one franchise to develop Black heroes. Not at all, because that's not fair. All of the other ones should make effort to include and support Black heroes, even ones based on other heroes or who started out as sidekicks. All of them should get promoted as their own heroes. Marvel doesn't do that enough, but that's probably due to apathy or laziness, or just general Eurocentric ignorance

[CosmiComic]

Yea it’s just the way things play out sometimes. Coates had his time to flesh out the characters he wanted and because this is Marvel there’s a good chance a lot of what he did gets ignored and Ridley does his own thing with his own iteration of T’Challa’s supporting cast. At the end of the day I just want the full spectrum of BP lore respected which naturally means that the black male characters who’ve defined certain eras of T’Challa’s publication get the chance to be developed and relevant just like the women should be. You and I can both agree it doesn’t have to be either-or and for the last 2 decades of Black Panther it mostly wasn’t.

I don’t think T’Challa’s brutal as in he’s needlessly violent and bloody, but I see him a lot like Wonder Woman in some of her more recent portrayals, he doesn’t have a huge issue using lethal force and he’s fine lying or using underhanded methods to protect Wakanda. That was a huge aspect of certain approaches to the character like Priest, Hudlin, and Geoff Johns so I think that if they want to differentiate their version of T’Challa from the MCU version, going with that approach would be interesting. It’s not like he’s not still a hero, he’s just not a paragon of virtue and justice, which could put him at odds with his more overtly heroic allies.

So I guess it's more the quality of the Black male supporting characters, right? In an ideal world they'd all be developed well and consistently, like other White superheroes' supporting characters. Just as long as the main heroes don't get overshadowed.

I don't have a problem with T'Challa using underhanded methods when he sees fit, being the leader of a secretive nation and all that. I'm just not into too much unjustified hero vs hero conflict considering how common it's been during the recent decade & a half.

[Ezyo1000]

Really love how they made his sound creature form a giant monster. Hell, this is the T’Challa vs Klaw battle we should’ve gotten in the MCU.

Yeah it was a missed opportunity.

I am curious though is this klaw made of sound to some degree already? Given T'Challa jump's at him and he seemingly disintegrates infront of him and vanishes. It'll be interesting to know more

[chief12d]

So I guess it's more the quality of the Black male supporting characters, right? In an ideal world they'd all be developed well and consistently, like other White superheroes' supporting characters. Just as long as the main heroes don't get overshadowed.

I don't have a problem with T'Challa using underhanded methods when he sees fit, being the leader of a secretive nation and all that. I'm just not into too much unjustified hero vs hero conflict considering how common it's been during the recent decade & a half.

Pretty much, one of the many things I liked about Coogler’s take was he gave every side character a strong, well defined role to supplement T’Challa. I know you think the cast was a bit too large (I personally go back and forth on the matter) but everyone had a purpose and did it well. So in terms of quality, we really only need about 5-7 side characters, roughly equal in gender all doing something cool, we have Shuri as the scientist, Okoye as the general, and a love interest. Let’s flesh out other elements of BP lore with characters who happen to be male so it’s organic. That’s how I’d do it at least and rotate the side characters as needed for the comic.

I agree, hero vs hero conflict is nearly always bad but stories need tension and drama to be compelling. If everyone gets along perfectly all the time things get boring, since these are people working in a high stress field (they’re superheroes lol) differences in opinion and lashing out are to be expected. There being a subplot where T’Challa’s insistence on getting Klaw causes him to have a strained relationship with Cap, which he needs to get over by accepting the aid of his friends would be fun IMO.

[Marvell2100]

Yeah, BP is definitely much more unique and identifiable than other Black hero franchises. No question about that. But I think it shouldn't just be up to one franchise to develop Black heroes. Not at all, because that's not fair. All of the other ones should make effort to include and support Black heroes, even ones based on other heroes or who started out as sidekicks. All of them should get promoted as their own heroes. Marvel doesn't do that enough, but that's probably due to apathy or laziness, or just general Eurocentric ignorance

No it definitely shouldn't be up to one franchise. It's great that women and minority characters are getting their own titles even if some are legacy characters. Ironically the side of Marvel that has the most unique characters is the worst at developing/pushing poc characters and that's the X-Men.

[CosmiComic]

Pretty much, one of the many things I liked about Coogler’s take was he gave every side character a strong, well defined role to supplement T’Challa. I know you think the cast was a bit too large (I personally go back and forth on the matter) but everyone had a purpose and did it well. So in terms of quality, we really only need about 5-7 side characters, roughly equal in gender all doing something cool, we have Shuri as the scientist, Okoye as the general, and a love interest. Let’s flesh out other elements of BP lore with characters who happen to be male so it’s organic. That’s how I’d do it at least and rotate the side characters as needed for the comic.

I agree, hero vs hero conflict is nearly always bad but stories need tension and drama to be compelling. If everyone gets along perfectly all the time things get boring, since these are people working in a high stress field (they’re superheroes lol) differences in opinion and lashing out are to be expected. There being a subplot where T’Challa’s insistence on getting Klaw causes him to have a strained relationship with Cap, which he needs to get over by accepting the aid of his friends would be fun IMO.

I know everyone had a purpose and it was done good enough. But I watch these movies to see the heroes for the most part. I think even 5-7 is probably too much. Maybe 3-4 at most. I was never a huge fan of the love interest character concept anyway, but I'm fine with romance in these movies if it's believable (which the MCU struggles with).

I don't think everyone needs to get along all the time. I just want the conflicts to make logical sense and not be OOC.

No it definitely shouldn't be up to one franchise. It's great that women and minority characters are getting their own titles even if some are legacy characters. Ironically the side of Marvel that has the most unique characters is the worst at developing/pushing poc characters and that's the X-Men.

X-men is very diverse, but like most franchises, the White characters get most of the focus, which is problematic when the whole mutant metaphor replaces any discussion of actual prejudice

[MindofShadow]

Pretty much, one of the many things I liked about Coogler’s take was he gave every side character a strong, well defined role to supplement T’Challa. I know you think the cast was a bit too large (I personally go back and forth on the matter) but everyone had a purpose and did it well.

IF there was a problem with T'challa's screen time (I think it was fine personally, especially considering there should be a trilogy.... :/ )... it was because he got killed off in the middle of it. So the main character disappeared in the middle of the movie.

But I don't know how you "fix" that since that lead to some really good development for the villain (something marvel sucks at sometimes) as well as tchalla's second trip to the djalia which was powerful as hell.

[Ezyo1000]

Yea that’s the vibe I get from Klaw, his fall from grace into a cybernetic sound being is made more poetic if he’s this ultra charming, handsome adventurer who bites off more than he can chew when he attacks Wakanda. I like to think that this version of Klaw has been traveling across the world as a professional grave robber and archaeologist for years to satisfy his scientific interests and adventurous spirit. It’s a nice niche that gives him a bit more weight than being a petty mercenary or rogue scientist.

I would add both. I like the idea that you threw about about the professional grave robber, archeologist angle. However, for klaw to be the one to kill T'Chaka (assuming that holds true) he needs some bite to him. I would say he has an extensive military and Black ops career. That mixed with this ultra charm, he uses that to as his way to travel around the world with multiple connections and is pretty well known for his skills in all of the above. He sets his sights on Wakanda when he gets some of their tech (Sonic gun) and his archeologist side kicks into high gear to where he becomes obsessed with finding out the source of the tech. This could even (this is now my own idea) play into the reformation of the supremacists, under a different name and updated, as his Black ops team, being able to accomplish thing's others can't

[Frontier]

IF there was a problem with T'challa's screen time (I think it was fine personally, especially considering there should be a trilogy.... :/ )... it was because he got killed off in the middle of it. So the main character disappeared in the middle of the movie.

But I don't know how you "fix" that since that lead to some really good development for the villain (something marvel sucks at sometimes) as well as tchalla's second trip to the djalia which was powerful as hell.

And then you got that super cool return moment during the climax.

[Dboi654]

Confirmed by her "sources"

https://youtu.be/HWeJQ8RsT0Y

Basically, she asked what's the best way to kill off T'Challa in order to end his legacy?

Y'all are way too comfortable with black death and misery at this point

[CosmiComic]

Isn't Grace Randolph unreliable?

[Dboi654]

Isn't Grace Randolph unreliable?

It's not about being unreliable.

It's about the fact that it has gone to the extent that people are actually having debates on how T'Challa is going to die. I won't be surprised if Marvel runs with this idea.

[CosmiComic]

It's not about being unreliable.

It's about the fact that it has gone to the extent that people are actually having debates on how T'Challa is going to die. I won't be surprised if Marvel runs with this idea.

I think it's not unreasonable to wonder how he'll die in the MCU. I didn't watch the whole video because I thought it might be clickbait