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  1. #14026
    Spectacular Member Gessela's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigiCom View Post
    I think part of the problem is that pop culture in general (and superhero comics in specific) focuses too much on what you might call "technical" intelligence. The smartest people in the Marvel U are the ones who can invent the most things, unlike in the real world where the archetypal modern genius (Herr Einstein) never invented a single gadget.

    Part of it is storytelling, of course (gadgets are easy to demonstrate) but I find the concept highly reductive.
    Agreed.

    For a leader, wisdom is that quality of intelligence that allows you to know the method of completing a thing, but delegate for efficiency.

  2. #14027
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gessela View Post
    With access to the same and/or better scientific education, and less focus on the physical training necessary to be the Black Panther, it’s logical that Shuri would have a technical edge on T’Challa. His experience would in turn give him the wisdom edge over her. This is how follow-up generations should work in my opinion.

    Strictly speaking on the MCU versions of course.
    I don’t even have a problem with Shuri being the smarter sibling in the comics. I’d prefer if she was Griot and had an entirely distinct role/powers but I’m fine with her being the more inventive one. My only issue is the complete sidelining of T’Challa’s intelligence. If Marvel wasn’t hellbent on referencing or including Shuri anytime T’Challa gets involved in anything remotely scientific this wouldn’t be a problem. It’s like damn the man can’t analyze some tech by his damn self anymore lol. Both characters deserve better.

  3. #14028
    Ultimate Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigiCom View Post
    Interesting how many of these examples are pre-Priest. The take that made the character great, the take everybody claims to want to see, didn't require T'Challa to do everything himself. Indeed, his greatest feat that first year SPECIFICALLY gives credit to scientists in his entourage.

    Listen, I'm not saying T'Challa should be an idiot... only that letting Shuri have the science means he could focus on OTHER kinds of intelligence, like the strategic maneuvers that made the character great in the first place.
    Wasnt it stated early on on Priest run that T'Challa advanced Wakanda to the 21st century and beyond? Plus he showed things like getting through Tony's force fields with his daggers by manipulating the frequency as he also rewrote the green dragon's DNA with them too. Between that techno jungle, making his own gear. How he prepped to beat Tony etc. I think your thinking when we talk about T'Challas scientific mind your thinking we mean like Coates "I am a scientist at heart" when we really mean we want Redjacks KiB & BPQ version of his mind

  4. #14029
    Ultimate Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gessela View Post
    With access to the same and/or better scientific education, and less focus on the physical training necessary to be the Black Panther, it’s logical that Shuri would have a technical edge on T’Challa. His experience would in turn give him the wisdom edge over her. This is how follow-up generations should work in my opinion.

    Strictly speaking on the MCU versions of course.
    That's basically what Redjack did. Shuri was all about the the latest and greatest, pushing tech as far as she can, while T'Challa was all about the big end game tech. Not that he couldn't tinker, bit he was looking at the big picture. That's how the MCU should of done it. Shuri tinkers on the lab, but T'Challa is the one who figured out how to make VB inert, and made the stuff. That protects Wakanda as a whole.

  5. #14030
    Old-School Otaku DigiCom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    I think your thinking when we talk about T'Challas scientific mind your thinking we mean like Coates "I am a scientist at heart" when we really mean we want Redjacks KiB & BPQ version of his mind
    Pretty much, yeah. Let Shuri have her lab. T'Challa is ore hands-on.

    (I really should watch BPQ one of these days...)

  6. #14031
    Ultimate Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigiCom View Post
    Pretty much, yeah. Let Shuri have her lab. T'Challa is ore hands-on.

    (I really should watch BPQ one of these days...)
    Woah woah woah... You haven't watched BPQ??? Digi...


    Lol you gotta get on that

  7. #14032
    Astonishing Member Klaue's Mixtape's Avatar
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    Its a bittersweet feeling watching that Across the SpiderVerse trailer.

    Im so happy Miles is getting his shine, but just...damn. 2022 should be the year of T'Challa and Miles. Excellence in live action and animation. Like in 2018.
    Last edited by Klaue's Mixtape; 12-04-2021 at 11:57 PM.

  8. #14033
    Ultimate Life Form BlackClaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigiCom View Post
    Pretty much, yeah. Let Shuri have her lab. T'Challa is ore hands-on.

    (I really should watch BPQ one of these days...)
    It’s on Disney + under Avengers Assemble season 5.
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  9. #14034
    Ultimate Life Form BlackClaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klaue's Mixtape View Post
    Its a bittersweet feeling watching that Across the SpiderVerse trailer.

    Im so happy Miles is getting his shine, but just...damn. 2022 should be the year of T'Challa and Miles. Excellence in live action and animation. Like in 2018.
    Speaking of Miles, I still need to see a team up of him and T’Challa.
    T'Challa
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  10. #14035
    Old-School Otaku DigiCom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    Woah woah woah... You haven't watched BPQ??? Digi...


    Lol you gotta get on that
    Quote Originally Posted by BlackClaw View Post
    It’s on Disney + under Avengers Assemble season 5.
    What can I say... I don't watch a lot of TV (or streaming).

  11. #14036
    Astonishing Member Blind Wedjat's Avatar
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    I really hate to be having this discussion again, but my view has always been that because T'Challa doesn't really have any landmark inventions or inventions that are referenced or used in other stories and by other characters outside of own, I am more than fine with that part of his intelligence being deemphasized in favour of other people like Shuri having that kind of role. I'm not saying definitively that I would hate it if he was more of an inventor, but that it just hasn't led into anything truly special or comparable to his peers. Evan Narcisse kept going on and on about how the MCU didn't show T'Challa to be an inventor, only for his version both in his comic and in the game to be an almost exact copy, with his comic version being more liberal, and his game version being weirdly traditional and conservative. I said this before and when the expansion came out and looks like I was right all along.

    I still maintain that Shuri has been made a better character by the MCU. The problem is that Marvel comics in their complete lack of creativity are trying so hard to merge the MCU version with comic history, and it's not really working because they're on different sides of the spectrum. Redjack is probably the only one who got it right, and he still borrowed a lot from the MCU version.

    I don't believe the film did T'Challa dirty at all by not showing his inventive genius. Personally I'm tired of seeing that opinion being thrown around ad nauseam. The constant cycle of negativity is why I don't come here often but I'm also aware I can't convince anyone otherwise, so it's fine. What is considered comic accurate differs from fan to fan so it's almost a pointless argument.

  12. #14037
    Invincible Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    I think it is hard for movies to show "tactical" genius or real time strategy because you don't get the narration in their head or have other characters explain wtf happened ala Ross.

    I mean, Cap is a "tactical genius" as well and I can't remember a single thing he really did that was impressive battle strategy wise. Whendon tried bc he is a comic nerd and it was... shouting a couple directions in one scene and a "if you die walk it off "speech.

    So, intelligence in the MCU is in the form of inventions, quips, saying quantum physics a lot, or in the form of the super smart character sarcastically making fun of another character using big words in quip form.

    I prefer my T'challa similar to Digi... I don't need lab stuff in his own book. I want on the fly planning and strategy. His brain should be going 100 miles per hour thinking of all the possible plans and counter plans to every scenario he runs into all day long..... yet all people see on his face is calm tothe point is scary (aka poker face). His intelligence comes out in the field AND then long term contingency issues to protect Wakanda (big things like galactus). Everything int he middle I don't really care personally lol.

    Now, the in the field stuff extends to **** like building a thanos brain wiper on the fly in the middle of battle. Or anti X gene gadgets in hells kitchen. he CAN do it, he is well equipped too, and if he is by himself in a situation it is needed, he can... but he's got people for that in Wakanda when it isn't dire. He's got other **** to do that other Wakandan's CAN'T do.

    Now, IMHO, this dynamic changes a bit if we are in team books and he should just be similar to the other genius freaks. In team books, things get simplified from powerset to personality and there is no reason to delegate here.
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  13. #14038
    Incredible Member Pulp Fiction's Avatar
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    T'challa designed the avengers quinjet. Though I guess that goes to iron man now

  14. #14039
    Invincible Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    More talk about what T'challa should be in the comics, the more i realize Ewing nailed the dude 100% between Ultimates and then Event Appearances.

    Too bad Ultimates was a slog to read too often.
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  15. #14040
    Incredible Member Pulp Fiction's Avatar
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    Tech is always gonna be a part of the mythos. Without the intelligence, he's gonna be the one (for the benefit of readers) other characters explain the science stuff to. If you're cool with that, then cool. I however am gonna be thinking he should already know it.

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