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  1. #2266
    Ultimate Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    It is kinda wild how this story went, "omg look at wakandas dark past" to "oh yeah, we have them locked up in the basement. That is what this weird door was for this whole time. oops"

    Plus, Mr. TNC... you already used the "army from beyond" in Season 1 with the force ghost black panthers. So, now we are going with the exact same trope.
    Coates is completely unoriginal. He took Interesting concepts like where was bast and made a whole cabal of orisha and made then completely boring, and offer nothing to the mythos OTHER THAN to take away Wakandas feats for being great on their own, to be great because of these forgettable pet creations. He then took Wakanda in space and made it mind numbingly boring and added more shit to the pile without any nuance or plan to show why T'Challa and Wakanda don't completely suck.

    All that plus the racist stereotyps, Rape, misogyny, slave analogies etc. And we are supposed to root for T'Challa and WK? We are supposed to root for armchair general who has yet tondo any big plays or moves of his own volition, being proactive or calculating, and has had the villains in his story defeated by either out of franchise x characters, or his own pet creations, and we are supposed to believe this is some legendary ground breaking rib for T'Challa and that he is going to come full circle?? By the end of this he is going to at best be right back where he started pre Coates, if not lower still

  2. #2267
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbeezy561 View Post
    And another thing. Okoye just kind of pops back into the story out of nowhere in season 2? She's the most loyal Dora Miljae in the bunch particularly in Priest's run? We NEVER saw her reaction to that crap Ayo and Aneka pulled. And this is Marvel's fault but they even did a book with them traveling together. I could see Okoye not wanting to be anywhere near Aneka and Ayo for what they did. Like you tried to delete an Ancient Wakandan Tradition all because you wanted to save your GF, that in itself should have almost caused a Civil War in the country. You know how many girls probably grew up waiting for there chance to become Dora's how many tribes probably hand selected girls to join that military order? And you just kind of not address it. If anything Okoye should have stepped in and trained all new ones, adn then maybe had the MA's shunned to the Jabari Lands. But they need to definitively bring the Dora's back. Like I get it you don't want them to be sex objects but do what the movie did and show them as the Warriors and Pride of the Nation that they are.
    It is obvious Editorial told Coates to bring back Okoye due to the MCU.

    And instead of addressing it in anyway at all..... she just re-appeared. Without explanation and without any weight at all. It was 100% not planned by Coates in any shape way or form. And this is the same Coates he brought back Vibraxas, QDJ (as a twist lol so dumb), and that light power Chick. So, he isn't incapable of bringing people from the past back.

    But Okoye as the lone loyal Dora breaks his entire season 1 story. Because they never once addressed that some of hte Doras would still be loyal. Instead they are a hivemind that follow Ayo/Aneka. Which doesn't make any sense.

    Season 1 was made worse by the lack of follow up on any of the narrative threads. I didn't like Season 1 at all , but it is by far his best story of hte three he is telling/told. And it has suffered big time because Coates didn't follow up on any anything from it. It has no weight or consequences now. It is incredibly empty.
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  3. #2268
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    "No one man" is gonna be hard to do with the "one man" gone though lol?


    The MA armor is 100% coming. And I Aneka/Ayo in someway are 100% coming (I think Aneka is already MCU canon) but I doubt the yare going to be forbiden (god that was dumb) lesbian lovers who revolt for rape camp "no one man" reasons.

    For one... the Doras in the MCU aren't "wives in training" and it was never mentioned in that way, ever. They are just elite woman warriors (and a general) loyal to the throne.
    I think they'll keep the very basic outline of them being lovers who see some form of injustice or corruption among Wakanda's elite and take matters into their own hands. I doubt Wakanda will be coded as having a "don't ask don't tell" policy when it comes to the Dora, because like you said, this version doesn't have them as wives in waiting.

    And their arc probably won't be related to rape because the MCU would never go that dark (and even if it did I don't think Coogler would want to depict a rape epidemic). Their motivations would be different, but the arc could be similar. I also suspect that M'Baku will become king (but not the BP) so they might still have the "no one man" aspect lol. But yea that armor is definitely gonna make an appearance in either the sequel or the D+ show.

  4. #2269
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    I think they'll keep the very basic outline of them being lovers who see some form of injustice or corruption among Wakanda's elite and take matters into their own hands. I doubt Wakanda will be coded as having a "don't ask don't tell" policy when it comes to the Dora, because like you said, this version doesn't have them as wives in waiting.

    And their arc probably won't be related to rape because the MCU would never go that dark (and even if it did I don't think Coogler would want to depict a rape epidemic). Their motivations would be different, but the arc could be similar. I also suspect that M'Baku will become king (but not the BP) so they might still have the "no one man" aspect lol. But yea that armor is definitely gonna make an appearance in either the sequel or the D+ show.
    Hell, saving grace of T'challa being dead... they can go "no one man" all they want. I won't even care lol


    You could still have Ayo possibly murder someone... make it a crime drama type of thing. She gets framed for murder a tribal leader, sentenced to death, Aneka breaks her out, some of the Dora join her.

    Can cause a split in the Dora over it... Aneka/Ayo vs Okoye type of thing. Instead of Black Panther.

    So half the show/movie is spent unraveling the mystery of whoever framed Ayo while being chased down by the loyal Doras and the HZ.

    In the end... figure out she is framed but he doras still remain split, the ayo/aneka squad goes to the jabari lands or whatever. The othe rhalf stays with the throne.

    same-ish stories without the rape camps and no one man shit
    Last edited by MindofShadow; 02-25-2021 at 10:05 AM.
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  5. #2270
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    Coates brought a bunch of named locations. I actually like that aspect of this run, even if some of the storylines attached to them are trash. Alkama Fields and its contentious history with Niganda, the Hekima Shule as a Wakandan liberal arts school and center of non-monarchial thought. A bunch of Birnins that we don't actually visit lol, but we did see a glimpse of some in that Soul of the Machine mini.

    He also introduced the kinetic energy absorption suit which is probably the biggest upgrade the character's gotten since Priest's vibranium weave. Coates may have contributed a decent bit to the rogues gallery. Zenzi, Tetu, maybe he leaves behind a rump state of the Intergalactic Empire of Wakanda, the Originators could always go evil again. Future writers will determine how relevant they become going forward. Gave us Kimoyo beads.

    Overall, Coates made an impact on the mythos, like it or not. We already saw elements of his run implemented in the MCU (Djalia, kinetic suit, kimoyo beads). I expect Alkama Fields and the Hekima Shule to appear in the D+ show if they don't show up in the sequel. I don't think that Coates introduced any mythos-defining institutions like the Dora/Hatut Zeraze or supporting characters like Shuri though. The sorcerers of Mujaji are forgettable and Eden, Changamire, Akili, are all nothing characters. I wouldn't be shocked if they make an appearance in the MCU but they're basically blank slates like Okoye was.

    In terms of narrative, I don't see this constitutional monarchy stuff being referenced past this run and the Dora being liberated doesn't seem to matter either. The Jabari will probably be ruled by NuM'Baku or actual at least actual Jabari come the relaunch. So in truth, while this run was bad, most of the stuff we hate can easily be ignored in issue #1 of the next run and the stuff of value can be kept or updated.
    Ok now that make sense.

  6. #2271
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    Hell, saving grace of T'challa being dead... they can go "no one man" all they want. I won't even care lol
    It's still a garbage story but you're right at least T'Challa wouldn't have anything to do with it lol. That bit never made sense, but then again neither did the rape epidemic that caused them to revolt in the first place.

  7. #2272
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    It is obvious Editorial told Coates to bring back Okoye due to the MCU.

    And instead of addressing it in anyway at all..... she just re-appeared. Without explanation and without any weight at all. It was 100% not planned by Coates in any shape way or form. And this is the same Coates he brought back Vibraxas, QDJ (as a twist lol so dumb), and that light power Chick. So, he isn't incapable of bringing people from the past back.

    But Okoye as the lone loyal Dora breaks his entire season 1 story. Because they never once addressed that some of hte Doras would still be loyal. Instead they are a hivemind that follow Ayo/Aneka. Which doesn't make any sense.

    Season 1 was made worse by the lack of follow up on any of the narrative threads. I didn't like Season 1 at all , but it is by far his best story of hte three he is telling/told. And it has suffered big time because Coates didn't follow up on any anything from it. It has no weight or consequences now. It is incredibly empty.
    It's funny how when people point out specific reasons and give details on how Coates story doesn't make sense and BP is ooc, we still get called rabid BP fans who are poisoned against him.

    All they see is "woke", "goddess" and "a lot of Black people".

  8. #2273
    Ultimate Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    Coates brought a bunch of named locations. I actually like that aspect of this run, even if some of the storylines attached to them are trash. Alkama Fields and its contentious history with Niganda, the Hekima Shule as a Wakandan liberal arts school and center of non-monarchial thought. A bunch of Birnins that we don't actually visit lol, but we did see a glimpse of some in that Soul of the Machine mini.

    Obviously Coates gave us the Djalia, which existed to some extent in previous runs but was never named or as prominently used. Coates pushed the idea of pre-Wakandan civilization with Adowa and previous dynasties and he's the guy that explored this conflict between first and second gen Wakandan gods. He also solidified an official pantheon with the Orisha and outlined a collective origin (but Wakandans worship many gods outside them).

    He also introduced the kinetic energy absorption suit which is probably the biggest upgrade the character's gotten since Priest's vibranium weave. Coates may have contributed a decent bit to the rogues gallery. Zenzi, Tetu, maybe he leaves behind a rump state of the Intergalactic Empire of Wakanda, the Originators could always go evil again. Future writers will determine how relevant they become going forward. Gave us Kimoyo beads.

    Overall, Coates made an impact on the mythos, like it or not. We already saw elements of his run implemented in the MCU (Djalia, kinetic suit, kimoyo beads). I expect Alkama Fields and the Hekima Shule to appear in the D+ show if they don't show up in the sequel. I don't think that Coates introduced any mythos-defining institutions like the Dora/Hatut Zeraze or supporting characters like Shuri though. The sorcerers of Mujaji are forgettable and Eden, Changamire, Akili, are all nothing characters. I wouldn't be shocked if they make an appearance in the MCU but they're basically blank slates like Okoye was.

    In terms of narrative, I don't see this constitutional monarchy stuff being referenced past this run and the Dora being liberated doesn't seem to matter either. The Jabari will probably be ruled by NuM'Baku or actual at least actual Jabari come the relaunch. So in truth, while this run was bad, most of the stuff we hate can easily be ignored in issue #1 of the next run and the stuff of value can be kept or updated.
    Did he though? He gets credited for the aesthetics and force push but that was actually stelfreeze. He said as much in early Interviews that alot of concepts came from stelfreeze. Yet people give Coates the credit for it. Just like how Narcisse had to fight tooth and nail to get credit for Rise because everyone kept claiming that it was Coates concepts and ideas Ontop of marvel giving Coates name top billing over Narcisse despite being a consultant who didn't write the story...

    So I really question what was really Coates and what wasn't. There are certain things we know for a fact are his, but then others I think is actually misplaced credit

  9. #2274
    The Professional Marvell2100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    It's still a garbage story but you're right at least T'Challa wouldn't have anything to do with it lol. That bit never made sense, but then again neither did the rape epidemic that caused them to revolt in the first place.
    This would have been better. The problems are in a neighboring country, let's say Abuke' and the MA want to help. Wakanda's policy of non-interference prohibits them from interfering. The MA decide to get involved anyway, with some Wakandans supporting and some against. This brings BP into the situation not to help the neighboring country but to bring the MA in to face consequences for breaking Wakandan law.

    The people of Abuke' rise up against BP and Wakanda then the MA start supplying weapons to their new followers. In trying to prevent an all out war, T'Challa brings down the hammer hard on the MA which only make the Abukans madder.. Then it's discovered that the country of Abuke' was actually colonized by an off-shoot Wakanda tribe who drove out the original inhabitants.

    No the Abukan's are faced with giving up land stolen by their ancestors and returning to Wakanda or choosing to share land with the originals. BP tellsthe MA, you cuased this mess so now you must figure out how to fix it.

    We say bye.

  10. #2275
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    This would have been better. The problems are in a neighboring country, let's say Abuke' and the MA want to help. Wakanda's policy of non-interference prohibits them from interfering. The MA decide to get involved anyway, with some Wakandans supporting and some against. This brings BP into the situation not to help the neighboring country but to bring the MA in to face consequences for breaking Wakandan law.

    The people of Abuke' rise up against BP and Wakanda then the MA start supplying weapons to their new followers. In trying to prevent an all out war, T'Challa brings down the hammer hard on the MA which only make the Abukans madder.. Then it's discovered that the country of Abuke' was actually colonized by an off-shoot Wakanda tribe who drove out the original inhabitants.

    No the Abukan's are faced with giving up land stolen by their ancestors and returning to Wakanda or choosing to share land with the originals. BP tellsthe MA, you cuased this mess so now you must figure out how to fix it.

    We say bye.
    Not enough Rape, not enough gender no one man politics, not enough LGBTQ forbidden love, also not enough niceguy intellectual philosopher losing his love interest to the alpha male Chad

    2/10 good try though
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  11. #2276
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    In a future story, I would like to see a T'Challa/Okoye pairing. For starters, Okoye is actually a full-blooded Wakandan. Second, she does not have the luxury of special superhuman abilities to hide behind as Storm does. And third, she's one of the 'Adored Ones' or 'wives-in-training' so she's been preparing for this day her whole life. It's high time she graduates. As a true warrior woman, her courage and sacrifice know no bounds. This is why I feel Okoye should become the next Queen of Wakanda.

    T'Challa/Okoye can produce a daughter named T'Koye who can become the next Black Panther.

  12. #2277
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    Y'all are stronger than I.

    I stopped reading after Coates first volume.

    Besides the "deconstruction of black excellence" them in the book, it's a very, very boring title. No action, all talk.
    Black Lives Matter.

  13. #2278
    The Professional Marvell2100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    Not enough Rape, not enough gender no one man politics, not enough LGBTQ forbidden love, also not enough niceguy intellectual philosopher losing his love interest to the alpha male Chad

    2/10 good try though
    Lol, Akeya/Ayo still could have been involved but I'm not putting in rape camps though. And no Bland Panther or T'Challa chumping is gonna happen.

    However, that Changemire/Ramona romance is a subplot hot starter. And the Zenzi riddle is solved. She is the daughter of Changy who was raised. by dad to hate on Wakanda since his radical ideas were rejected by T'Chaka. Tetu was one of his students at University who was radicalized also.

  14. #2279
    Ultimate Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    Not enough Rape, not enough gender no one man politics, not enough LGBTQ forbidden love, also not enough niceguy intellectual philosopher losing his love interest to the alpha male Chad

    2/10 good try though


    This made me laugh way harder then it should of... Seriously though its Crazy how no one takes Coates isht seriously, not even himself as he constantly just ignores whatever he established because story demands more self hate!

  15. #2280
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post


    This made me laugh way harder then it should of... Seriously though its Crazy how no one takes Coates isht seriously, not even himself as he constantly just ignores whatever he established because story demands more self hate!
    Not true. There are folks and they get offended if you don't like the book.

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