T'Challa: The Black Panther Appreciation 2021

[skyvolt2000]

Wakanda took on the Skrulls and sent them PACKING with NO HELP.
Wakanda lead by Panther took on Krull's attackers and WON with no HELP.
Deadpool tried some mess and got sent packing.

Now this is a NATION.

Who can't handle Michael B Jordan from space? They need to get help???

Rage? Where is Night Thrasher at? That is his LEGAL guardian.
Panther is an Avenger and former Fantastic Four member and Ultimate-no way those folks are going to sit back and accept being excluded for being WHITE.
The Champions are going to show up with Miles and Riri-especially Ms Marvel-who has a friend (cousin to the KING) there.
Uncle Aaron, Jefferson nor Peter nor Gwen are going to let Miles go alone. Heck MOMMA Morales is not going to play that.
Ironfist is not letting Luke go alone nor would JESSICA JONES. Nor Dagger with Cloak.
If we are going to pluck black folks out of thin air-where is FLINT of the Inhumans? A guy that can move planets and rocks should be there.

This is PANDERING 101.

White comic book fans RANT about this when it happens to them. They are not celebrating a background or cameo. They don't like it. Especially if that leads to the death of a character.

But we have to clap and cheer??? Looking at some of the reviews this "showcase of black folks is MORE important" than the NAME on the cover of the book. So pretty much every black hero has now OVERSHADOWED Black Panther in his OWN book.

[MadFacedKid]

I haven’t been reading the book admittedly but the idea of only a bunch of heroes that are black coming to help Black Panther against Killmonger is plain dumb it would be cool in a world where the heroes are only black but it’s just weird in the main 616 it’s basically that A-Force scene in Endgame which was cringe as hell.

[Ezyo1000]

This is true. You don’t see BP fans trying to convince She-Hulk and Thor fans that Aaron’s Avengers is a masterpiece lol. I and several other people in this thread have been able to recognize the bullshit directions the book takes many of the characters while politely saying “I don’t care” because T’Challa’s out there getting feats/competence porn. I’d be much more open to praise of Coates if it wasn’t so blatantly obvious that for a subset of readers it’s about putting down any criticisms simply because a particular character/demographic is getting disproportionate attention in the Black Panther title.

At least we’re honest about our priorities lol. And two reviews from writers who probably never read the Priest run and a couple nice tweets from people with the same history/agendas doesn’t change what is by every standard of measurement a floundering book. Even if you leave the echo chambers of Twitter (where of course a gimmick like throwing in a bunch of D-list black heroes like Prodigy is gonna garner acclaim) you’ll find that many comic fans have been turned off by Coates, which sales have consistently indicated. Once again, looking forward to this run ending on a low note and with very little truly contributed to the future of the franchise. Hopefully Marvel sees Coates’ failure and puts their best foot forward in the relaunch, where we don’t have to worry about Storm, Prodigy, space Wakanda, Midnight Angels.

It really does speak to the company’s low opinion of black people to begin with by letting a dude with ZERO experience in writing fiction be the chaperone of a rising IP like Black Panther. Coates woulda got his ass laughed out the door if he tried to write Thor with those same lack of credentials, because editors actually like that character and don’t want someone without the chops to screw him over. It took 3 years ruining T’Challa before they gave him Captain America. Marvel thinks as long as you’re black and know politics you can write Black Panther. Disappointing but not surprising.

Right? I have never gone into a thor, she hulk, or avengers thread and seen BP fans telling them that they just hate JA just because and they are never happy. Crazy thing is, fans know how these characters are when written properly and in character.

And yeah I have seen more negative reviews than just there. Twitter is tiny. There are other forums out there and the majority fine this run dull at best.

Again Coates can't write fiction to save his life. His story reads like a bad fanfiction of someone who thinks certain buzzwords equals quality work.

The fact that he had in S1 Falcon not show up because T'Challa didn't think Wakandans would want to see him and even the crew were met with unease, yet a whole army of random black folk's show up to fight for Wakanda, yet no other Wakandans are anywhere to be found?? He needs all the Black heroes for this threat but space Wakanda isn't big enough to threaten the world... So why does Wakanda need any help then? They have been unconquered for centuries but under Coates they need all the help they can get, especially from random x characters? The thirst from Coates is REAL and it sucks that T'Challa has been dragged down by bad fanfic for 5 years. Luckily the end is near

[Dariel81]

The all black super hero thing is dope as hell but it has The wrong writer executing it

[Dariel81]

Wakanda took on the Skrulls and sent them PACKING with NO HELP.
Wakanda lead by Panther took on Krull's attackers and WON with no HELP.
Deadpool tried some mess and got sent packing.

Now this is a NATION.

Who can't handle Michael B Jordan from space? They need to get help???

Rage? Where is Night Thrasher at? That is his LEGAL guardian.
Panther is an Avenger and former Fantastic Four member and Ultimate-no way those folks are going to sit back and accept being excluded for being WHITE.
The Champions are going to show up with Miles and Riri-especially Ms Marvel-who has a friend (cousin to the KING) there.
Uncle Aaron, Jefferson nor Peter nor Gwen are going to let Miles go alone. Heck MOMMA Morales is not going to play that.
Ironfist is not letting Luke go alone nor would JESSICA JONES. Nor Dagger with Cloak.
If we are going to pluck black folks out of thin air-where is FLINT of the Inhumans? A guy that can move planets and rocks should be there.

This is PANDERING 101.

White comic book fans RANT about this when it happens to them. They are not celebrating a background or cameo. They don't like it. Especially if that leads to the death of a character.

But we have to clap and cheer??? Looking at some of the reviews this "showcase of black folks is MORE important" than the NAME on the cover of the book. So pretty much every black hero has now OVERSHADOWED Black Panther in his OWN book.

So what if it's pandering the white male audience gets pandered to.The problem is the execution and the writer. Yall are starting to sound like those comicgater incels using the word pandering and woke etc..


ALL BLACK EVERYTHING if it's done correctly.

[chief12d]

So what if it's pandering the white male audience gets pandered to.The problem is the execution and the writer. Yall are starting to sound like those comicgater incels using the word pandering and woke etc..


ALL BLACK EVERYTHING if it's done correctly.

Comicgater incels are worse than Coates. In every way possible. Let's be clear, no one in this thread supports that nonsense and most of us have had to deal with the world of Black Panther getting hate from those people since even before the MCU. But I'll be damned if the terminology they popularized doesn't reflect a lot of the stuff Coates has done, so yea, I will call this pandering, low effort garbage. Because that's what it is.

I don't have an issue with an all black superhero army I just want it to make sense. The weak establishment of the threat, the weak protagonist, the randomness of the characters selected and highlighted, all of these are legitimate complaints to have. Complaints that I'd have if this were a white hero calling on an all white army of superheroes with absolutely zero build up. The issue people have here is posters coming in saying we must applaud or hold this story to a lesser standard because the writer is a black man and because there's a bunch of random black heroes. This element of the Coates BP book makes no sense and we have every right to criticize it. And we have every right to criticize the lack of criticism (AKA the folks on Twitter/reviewers that will lap up whatever Coates puts out as long as it has black people in it).

[Dariel81]

Comicgater incels are worse than Coates. In every way possible. Let's be clear, no one in this thread supports that nonsense and most of us have had to deal with the world of Black Panther getting hate from those people since even before the MCU. But I'll be damned if the terminology they popularized doesn't reflect a lot of the stuff Coates has done, so yea, I will call this pandering, low effort garbage. Because that's what it is.

I don't have an issue with an all black superhero army I just want it to make sense. The weak establishment of the threat, the weak protagonist, the randomness of the characters selected and highlighted, all of these are legitimate complaints to have. Complaints that I'd have if this were a white hero calling on an all white army of superheroes with absolutely zero build up. The issue people have here is posters coming in saying we must applaud or hold this story to a lesser standard because the writer is a black man and because there's a bunch of random black heroes. This element of the Coates BP book makes no sense and we have every right to criticize it. And we have every right to criticize the lack of criticism (AKA the folks on Twitter/reviewers that will lap up whatever Coates puts out as long as it has black people in it).

Understood

[butterflykyss]

So what if it's pandering the white male audience gets pandered to.The problem is the execution and the writer. Yall are starting to sound like those comicgater incels using the word pandering and woke etc..


ALL BLACK EVERYTHING if it's done correctly.

agreed to the bolded

[Devaishwarya]

So what if it's pandering the white male audience gets pandered to.The problem is the execution and the writer. Yall are starting to sound like those comicgater incels using the word pandering and woke etc..


ALL BLACK EVERYTHING if it's done correctly.

Yes, IF it's done correctly. This was done very, very badly.

[MindofShadow]

I haven’t been reading the book admittedly but the idea of only a bunch of heroes that are black coming to help Black Panther against Killmonger is plain dumb it would be cool in a world where the heroes are only black but it’s just weird in the main 616 it’s basically that A-Force scene in Endgame which was cringe as hell.

Naw, this is way worse than Endgame.

End Game was contrived fan service that lasted all of 2 minutes. In a movie that was pretty much fan service on top of fan service lol. At least all those characters were in the same general location.

This is lasting issue after issue and it isn't even cool lol. And makes no logical sense. In a 5 year saga of books that has been the opposite of fan service and has kept itself away from the rest of the Marvel comic universe on purpose.

This is just silly. This is just Coates trying to get some brownie points on the way out. Superficial garbage.

The all black super hero thing is dope as hell but it has The wrong writer executing it

Yes, IF it's done correctly. This was done very, very badly.

Yup

I didn't bitch about Coates "The Crew" being all black because at least T'challa has a relationsihp with Storm, Cage, and Eden at the time. So it "fit" to an extent roster wise.

What we are getting in BP is nothing but bad pandering. If it was good pandering, I could at least be entertained with some cool action feats. This doesn't even have that because the only directive was "cram in black people." Half the people that flash on panel, T'challa has no working relationship with whatsoever.

If the people there were Cage, Storm, Blue Marvel, Blade, Monica, Eden, Falcon, War Machine? Alright... contrived sure, but I could believe he could have those people on speed dial if need be.

But random mutants? Miles, who is a kid he talked to for one panel maybe? Rage? Whatever Patriot that is this time? Black Fury? Come on man lol. Not only is it dumb, but it steals panel time from people who matter.

[MindofShadow]

It really does speak to the company’s low opinion of black people to begin with by letting a dude with ZERO experience in writing fiction be the chaperone of a rising IP like Black Panther. Coates woulda got his ass laughed out the door if he tried to write Thor with those same lack of credentials, because editors actually like that character and don’t want someone without the chops to screw him over. It took 3 years ruining T’Challa before they gave him Captain America. Marvel thinks as long as you’re black and know politics you can write Black Panther. Disappointing but not surprising.

Ain't this the truth.

Marvel doesn't care about Black Panther because, none of the higher ups had Black Panther as their favorite character.

You have comic writers WANTING Thor... but you gotta earn it. You gotta write 5 other books that do decent first, get a reputation, and then, ok, you can have Thor.

Ditto with Spider-Man. Avengers. Whatever property they actually care about at the time.

You have to get lucky to get in the door at marvel. Then you have to prove yourself on the D listers. Then you might get a B lister. THEN, you get the big boys.

With BP... not so much. If memory serves me correctly, the last writer to wrote the BP solo that actually had credentials was Priest... who was forced to do it lol. Hudlin, Liss, Mayberry, and Coates were all "new" to comics I do believe.

[KingNomarch]

I find it just as bad as the moment from Sam's tenure as Cap where all the black heroes got together for a memorial for Rhodey and Misty referred to them as his family when most of them there could barely be called his friend because the history wasn't there. How many memorable moments did T'Challa have with Rhodey over the years?

So if it was just Luke since they been teaming up since Priest's run, Storm because of their past and relationship, Sam since T'Challa upgraded his suit and they had team ups since Priest's run, Blue Marvel, Monica, and Blade, those characters being there would make since because T'Challa has a history with them. Inserting random black characters because they're black is the kind of pandering I don't want like back in season 2 Coates brought in that character just to blind the Fenris twins, something T'Challa could have easily achieved or one of his supporting characters.

[Ezyo1000]

So what if it's pandering the white male audience gets pandered to.The problem is the execution and the writer. Yall are starting to sound like those comicgater incels using the word pandering and woke etc..


ALL BLACK EVERYTHING if it's done correctly.

1 it wasn't done correctly.

2 it's pandering to a crowd that gives zero fraks about the title character and attack fans with legitimate criticism by saying nonsense like we should support all black content regardless of the quality or racist stereotypes it feeds on.

3 the writer in question has no idea what he is doing, for someone who at the start claimed he had 5 years worth of story to tell, he has shown that really he had maybe a year and a half/ 2 years tops of story to tell (that is combining all 3 stories)

4 I'm all for Black heroes uniting when it makes sense. Hudlin did it right with 4 the hard way, yet Coates just went and picked every black hero randomly and threw them into a WAKANDA ONLY level threat and has T'Challa drone on on some flowery "Wakanda the wonderful".

He spent the last 5 years isht talking T'Challa and Wakanda and has yet to show why T'Challa is great or why we should care about Wakanda on top of making every main villain in every story get out down by side characters (seriously how can we take numonger at a credible threat when Okoye put him down with ease, also why was she fighting him instead of T'Challa on the first place???)

This is pandering of the worst and most insulting kind. It's the type that treats fans like they are idiot's and will blindly support garbage and hold the writer to a different standard due to race, and marvel just allows any ole racist garbage to go unchecked because "Well he's black it can't be racist". Again most BP fans here have articulated to great degrees what we don't like about Coates, and none of it comes from "Well I just don't like him so no matter what he does I'm going to hate it" we give credit where credit is due, and honestly? Coates has only been given credit maybe 5-6 issues in the last 5 years because those were the only times he bothered to care about making T'Challa the center focus and treat him how he is supposed to be written.

[Devaishwarya]

...and pandering is problematic regardless of the audience being pandered to, as it highlights a distinct lack of creative integrity.

[skyvolt2000]

So what if it's pandering the white male audience gets pandered to.The problem is the execution and the writer. Yall are starting to sound like those comicgater incels using the word pandering and woke etc..

Here is the difference folks here have READ the book.
Gators do NOT read the book. Like the mentioned Sam Wilson at Rhodey Funeral with Monica saying "family". That is all they need to go off and attack.
Here you got folks who have READ Black Panther.

What Mindshadow is saying is right-when has Panther interacted with all these folks?
Now an exception I would give if he was there would be Synch. He's a Black Panther fan as established in Generation X. He would find a way to get there to fight with his idol.

What folks are pointing out is this is bad execution.
Along with taking page time from folks.

You have comic writers WANTING Thor... but you gotta earn it. You gotta write 5 other books that do decent first, get a reputation, and then, ok, you can have Thor.

With BP... not so much. If memory serves me correctly, the last writer to wrote the BP solo that actually had credentials was Priest... who was forced to do it lol. Hudlin, Liss, Mayberry, and Coates were all "new" to comics I do believe.

Mayberry is known as a horror writer (one of the top 10 horror writers). Panther was the second comic he ever did. However he had experience doing fiction.
Liss is a novel writer and how he wrote Panther is how he wrote other novels in the past (without the super hero antics)
Hudlin is Hudlin

What all of them had that Coates did not was experience in writing fiction or being involved in it.

AKA the folks on Twitter/reviewers that will lap up whatever Coates puts out as long as it has black people in it).

And most of the reviews focused on was how black folks were there.
And let me put this out there-lets see how long before we see articles throwing fits at Marvel for the lack of books for these guys. Because that is next.
Never mind the fact Miles, Cage, Shuri, Riri, Storm, Falcon, War Machine, Monica, N'Kano, Eli, Misty & Rage have all been leads in books. Books that most of them NEVER supported.