T'Challa: The Black Panther Appreciation 2021

[Harsh Lesson]

CM 16 sold 43K in March. BP was 13K

They stopped using random literary name and put Kelly Thompson, a comic vet with a name, on the title and it actually started selling much better than before.

She won't ever be Deadpool but the book is selling rather decently

And the movie made over a billion.

How does any of this contradict my point that, despite being heavily pushed by Marvel since 2012, she's not achieved the status they intended or envisioned? They were shooting for their own Wonder Woman, but they've missed the mark.

Also, the success of any individual MCU film says more about the brand than it does the IP. So, while CM made a lot of money & had a lot of viewers, it wasn't well received.

you are in an echo chamber man lol

mcu monica aint anywhere near a popular as wanda. And Wanda is set up for DS2.


We can make arguments and debate without changing the facts.

I believe Monica should have been CM instead of Carol in the MCU but it is what it is at this point.

She isn't as popular at the moment, but Monica was briefly featured in Disney+'s first MCU series, & that was more than enough for Teyonah Parris to elevate her star. Going from a relatively unknown actress to widely recognized damn near instantly. Give it a few years & let's revisit this discussion.

[Ekie]

Just because he never met these black character's doesn't mean it's not time.Comicbooks do bring in certain real world,real life situations and most black folk try to bond or hang with other BLACK folk.

Coates is horrible but the all black meet up complaints are odd to me.

Most black folk aren't wakandans. Wakandans don't like other folk plus they live on completely different continent.

So who was it that gave miles a ride to Wakanda?
And was that person driving a bus/planes that said "blacks only"?
I mean if the entire world is at stake he would think they could at least let on some Puerto Ricans.

We've spent years in this thread coming up with all black Avengers teams so all of these new people popping up now talking about how we hate and don't support the culture are getting the pushback they deserve.
It has to make sense.

[MindofShadow]

How does any of this contradict my point that, despite being heavily pushed by Marvel since 2012, she's not achieved the status they intended or envisioned? They were shooting for their own Wonder Woman, but they've missed the mark.

Also, the success of any individual MCU film says more about the brand than it does the IP. So, while CM made a lot of money & had a lot of viewers, it wasn't well received.

They took a character best known for getting power drained by Rogue and made it so she can hold a solo.

I don't even like the character much but they increased her popularity massively.

And yeah... made a lot of money, was critically solid... just hated by comicgater youtube brigaders. Get out of your echo chamber man.

[Ekie]

On the topic of Marvel executive treatment of black panther and how they choose his handlers I'll present this video of huddling talking about how he got chosen.

I assume Coates was chosen in a somewhat similar fashion. It worked out pretty well with hudlin although some people have complaints but overall he elevated the character because he understood what the draw was for a comic book superhero and what the trajectory needs to be. Coats seems to think that Black Panther's main super power is having the technology to call for help. Help from dictators, help from space wakandans, help from xmen ect.

And now here we are with Marvel about to choose another writer probably using the same standards that they always have with minority characters while passing up a guy like Red Jack who has already proven his knowledge and understanding of the character and his ability to write comics and fiction while respecting those that came before him. He was probably going to be on the level of or above priest when it came to crafting this franchise based on what ive seen in the cartoon and in the One shot. Yet Marvel failed to lock him up. I have zero faith in them as a company when it comes to this franchise.

Then theres Coogler who admittedly didnt get the importance/draw of Tchalla initially and is now about to start crafting a completely new mythos for the mass public without the character. A new cinematic fanbase that steadfastly believes Black Panther isnt a character weve read about for 50 years and that instead its "just a mantle" because thats what the MCU has taught them. The green lanturns of wakanda.

[Vordan]

It typically takes about 20 years for the people who are fans of current pop culture to get into positions where they can bring their own experiences as fans to the creator position. So in 2038 you will start to see kids who saw Chadwick deliver his take on T’Challa bring their love of the character to the higher up positions at Marvel/Disney. Which admittedly isn’t much comfort to us right now.

[Harsh Lesson]

They took a character best known for getting power drained by Rogue and made it so she can hold a solo.

I don't even like the character much but they increased her popularity massively.

And yeah... made a lot of money, was critically solid... just hated by comicgater youtube brigaders. Get out of your echo chamber man.

She's popular in contrast to whom? She had decent numbers, but was far short of the icons. She was being outsold by Spider-Woman & Gwen Stacy before shops began closing last year.

I don't know what echo chamber you're referring to.

[BlackClaw]

On the topic of Marvel executive treatment of black panther and how they choose his handlers I'll present this video of huddling talking about how he got chosen.

I assume Coates was chosen in a somewhat similar fashion. It worked out pretty well with hudlin although some people have complaints but overall he elevated the character because he understood what the draw was for a comic book superhero and what the trajectory need to be. Coats seems to think that Black Panthers main super power is having the technology to call for help. Help from dictators, help from space wakandans, help from xmen ect.

And now here we are which Marvel about to choose another writer probably using the same standards that they always have with minority characters while passing up a guy like red Jack who has already proven his knowledge and understanding of the character and his ability to write comics and fiction while respecting those that came before him. He was probably going to be on the level of or above priest when it came to crafting this franchise based on what ive seen in the cartoon and in the One shot. Yet Marvel failed to lock him up. I have zero faith in them as a company when it comes to this franchise.

Then theres Coogler who admittedly didnt get the importance Tchalla initially and is now about to start crafting a completely new mythos for the mass public without the character. A new cinematic fanbase that steadfastly believe Black Panther isnt a character weve read about for 50 year and that instead its "just a mantle" because thats what the MCU has taught them. The green lanturns of wakanda.

The “it’s a mantle” bullshit is the most exhausting thing about MCU shills. When a reboot inevitably happens, the next director NEEDS to have the focus on T’Challa a lot more. Not skipping his origin would be ideal so that the MCU shills can see once and for all the Black Panther IS T’Challas story.

[chief12d]

It typically takes about 20 years for the people who are fans of current pop culture to get into positions where they can bring their own experiences as fans to the creator position. So in 2038 you will start to see kids who saw Chadwick deliver his take on T’Challa bring their love of the character to the higher up positions at Marvel/Disney. Which admittedly isn’t much comfort to us right now.

Well as Ekie pointed out, there’s a good chance people who love the MCU Black Panther years from now won’t be fans of T’Challa, at least not in the way traditional fans were. He was a secondary character in Civil War and had a single solo film (where in the eyes of many he was the least interesting character). Then 2 pretty minor appearances in ensembles that were big send offs for the true stars of the Infinity Saga, Cap and Tony. This next saga of the MCU, assuming it doesn’t feature T’Challa will have a separate character in the mantle for a decade+ with spin-offs and lore built entirely independent of T’Challa. People who love BP 20 years from now may very well prefer Shuri/M’Baku/Okoye/whoever Disney gives the mantle to and might see BP as even more of an ensemble than people think now. T’Challa needs more than 1 big movie to garner the future fan base that Iron Man and Captain America have ensured through several major showings.

[skyvolt2000]

CM 16 sold 43K in March.
BP was 13K

That is a 30K difference. LOL Cap Marvel INCREASED by 13K from the previous month

Black Panther current run
1 122385 13 variants
2 34891 (87494 drop) 3 variants
3 35098 3 variants and 1 featured CAROL DANVERS
4 30951 Cosmic Ghostrider variant
5 31254 Maxx Lim variant
6 26220 X-Men variant
7 27548 FF variant
8 22670 GOTG variant
9 23052 2 variant covers one with Skrulls
10 21449 Spider-Man villain variant
11 20572 Asgard variant
12 20993 (Okeye variant)
13 21024 3 variants-Cap America, Virgin cover with Panther
14 23104 (Carnage variant) (2080 increase)
15 18419 (4865 DROP & Killmonger variant)
16 16146 variants END
17 15260
18 14727
19 15666 Variant returns
20 15142
21 14,639 (Feb 2020) (Storm variant)
22 13,894

7 times there was a 2K drop
2 times a drop of 4K
1 time did this book see a 2K increase (thank you Carnage) the previous run did it 4 times

The last issue of the previous run was 26345. This run hit below that by issue 5.

This is what winning is suppose to look like? This is what an Oscar winner is suppose to look like?

[taozen]

The solution is very simple. Did you see how many rave reviews Redjack aka Geoffrey Thorne got from his Black Panther KiB tie in?

How his single issue did more to boost T'Challas profile, capture the character, his supporting cast, and the power of Wakanda while SIMULTANEOUSLY reinforcing why T'Challa is so important to his franchise (his line "The Black Panther IS Wakanda) and why he is the focus then Coates has done in 5 years? Yeah, marvel needs to do more of that. Get RJ on the main BP solo, get a dude like Evan narcisse a side book to build up T'Challa as well and hone his writing skills.

Basically bar people like Coates, Roxanne, Vita, nnedi, and yona, people who dont care about the character and use his world as a mouth piece for their black dysfunctional agenda, an hire people who actually want to elevate T'Challa the character and take him to the next level. It's really not that hard. And again, given how much positive reviews and acclaim he received for his work on BP quest and KiB, I'm utterly shocked Thorne was passed up again for writing the solo.

Have they announced the creative team taking over after Coates?

[chief12d]

The “it’s a mantle” bullshit is the most exhausting thing about MCU shills. When a reboot inevitably happens, the next director NEEDS to have the focus on T’Challa a lot more. Not skipping his origin would be ideal so that the MCU shills can see once and for all the Black Panther IS T’Challas story.

There’s nothing wrong with saying it’s a mantle. At the end of the day it is, but there’s a difference between the “definitive version” and the “successor” that I think most casuals don’t care about because they don’t read comics and aren’t as attached. Which isn’t wrong in itself, it’s a bit unreasonable to ask people to care about a concept they don’t have experience trying to understand, but the gaslighting of long term fans of any criticisms they have of these adaptations does become stupid at a certain point.

The story of Black Panther is at its core the story of T’Challa, even when someone else takes the mantle he is the standard to which they are held and because comics are mostly eternal, he always comes back. That may not be true in the movies, but that arguably highlights why a recast would’ve been ideal in the wake of Boseman’s death, it would’ve allowed T’Challa to become the definitive version of the Black Panther. The way he is in the comics. With that unlikely, we’re faced with a situation where some other character (likely Shuri) ends up being seen as the “true” Black Panther for millions of people because despite a really popular move T’Challa was not cemented in the role for a long enough period of time. He never got the chance to undergo the arcs and complexity that characters like Tony and Steve got, which will hurt the character going forward in ways I don’t think many non-BP fans care about or understand. Oh well, at least we got the comics lol.

[BlackClaw]

There’s nothing wrong with saying it’s a mantle. At the end of the day it is, but there’s a difference between the “definitive version” and the “successor” that I think most casuals don’t care about because they don’t read comics and aren’t as attached. Which isn’t wrong in itself, it’s a bit unreasonable to ask people to care about a concept they don’t have experience trying to understand, but the gaslighting of long term fans of any criticisms they have of these adaptations does become stupid at a certain point.

The story of Black Panther is at its core the story of T’Challa, even when someone else takes the mantle he is the standard to which they are held and because comics are mostly eternal, he always comes back. That may not be true in the movies, but that arguably highlights why a recast would’ve been ideal in the wake of Boseman’s death, it would’ve allowed T’Challa to become the definitive version of the Black Panther. The way he is in the comics. With that unlikely, we’re faced with a situation where some other character (likely Shuri) ends up being seen as the “true” Black Panther for millions of people because despite a really popular move T’Challa was not cemented in the role for a long enough period of time. He never got the chance to undergo the arcs and complexity that characters like Tony and Steve got, which will hurt the character going forward in ways I don’t think many non-BP fans care about or understand. Oh well, at least we got the comics lol.

That’s by far my biggest fear going forward. Even if/when a reboot happens T’Challa might very well be an afterthought to an entire generation of fans. And woe betide the abuse that the new T’Challa actor will face from woke Twitter who think Shuri is the definitive Panther. Ugh.

[Vordan]

Well as Ekie pointed out, there’s a good chance people who love the MCU Black Panther years from now won’t be fans of T’Challa, at least not in the way traditional fans were. He was a secondary character in Civil War and had a single solo film (where in the eyes of many he was the least interesting character). Then 2 pretty minor appearances in ensembles that were big send offs for the true stars of the Infinity Saga, Cap and Tony. This next saga of the MCU, assuming it doesn’t feature T’Challa will have a separate character in the mantle for a decade+ with spin-offs and lore built entirely independent of T’Challa. People who love BP 20 years from now may very well prefer Shuri/M’Baku/Okoye/whoever Disney gives the mantle to and might see BP as even more of an ensemble than people think now. T’Challa needs more than 1 big movie to garner the future fan base that Iron Man and Captain America have ensured through several major showings.

I agree T’Challa needs more love but I wouldn’t be too despondent. T’Challa will be Black Panther in the Avengers game, he’s the Black Panther in multiple animated cartoons such as EMH, if there’s a solo video game he will be the main character, he’s in Fortnite, he’s the Black Panther. Even if they replace him with an OC (I sure hope they don’t), T’Challa is still going to be the guy people think of when they think of “Black Panther”. And Marvel can’t get rid of or replace him in the comics without getting major backlash, so he’ll still be holding down the mantle here.

Is it possible we’ll get into Spider-Man territory, where even though Peter is the Spider-Man, Miles, Gwen, and others have carved out fanbases for themselves? Sure, it’s totally possible. But I don’t think T’Challa is so easily dislodged from his prominence, and all it takes is one great Immortal Hulk tier run and he’ll be back on his feet. I know the status quo sucks ass at the moment but you gotta hold on to hope that things will get better.

Have they announced the creative team taking over after Coates?

Nope not yet. All we know is they passed on Redjack. Hoping next month’s solicits will finally tell us who gets the job.

[taozen]

I agree T’Challa needs more love but I wouldn’t be too despondent. T’Challa will be Black Panther in the Avengers game, he’s the Black Panther in multiple animated cartoons such as EMH, if there’s a solo video game he will be the main character, he’s in Fortnite, he’s the Black Panther. Even if they replace him with an OC (I sure hope they don’t), T’Challa is still going to be the guy people think of when they think of “Black Panther”. And Marvel can’t get rid of or replace him in the comics without getting major backlash, so he’ll still be holding down the mantle here.

Is it possible we’ll get into Spider-Man territory, where even though Peter is the Spider-Man, Miles, Gwen, and others have carved out fanbases for themselves? Sure, it’s totally possible. But I don’t think T’Challa is so easily dislodged from his prominence, and all it takes is one great Immortal Hulk tier run and he’ll be back on his feet. I know the status quo sucks ass at the moment but you gotta hold on to hope that things will get better.

Nope not yet. All we know is they passed on Redjack. Hoping next month’s solicits will finally tell us who gets the job.

I am looking forward to reading Redjack's story. My comic shop did not place it in my subscription box but they reordered it for me. Can't wait to dive in as its getting a ton of praise.

[Vordan]

I am looking forward to reading Redjack's story. My comic shop did not place it in my subscription box but they reordered it for me. Can't wait to dive in as its getting a ton of praise.

It’s fantastic, I’m sure you’ll enjoy it. Then you can come join the rest of us in being frustrated that Marvel passed him over