T'Challa: The Black Panther Appreciation 2021

[Ekie]

Hey Paramount somehow listened to fans when they said that Sonics design needed to be changed so anything is possible.

Yup. This situation is so unprecedented and sensitive that any strong vocal support one way or the other is going to make waves. It doesnt have to be toxic forsure. It can easily be positive since recasting helps both Bosemans hollywood legacy of breaking financial barriers for a black character and the character himself. Theres a right way to do it

[BlackClaw]

Yup. This situation is so unprecedented and sensitive that any strong vocal support one way or the other is going to make waves. It doesnt have to be toxic it forsure. It can easily be positive since recasting helps both Bosemans hollywood legacy of breaking financial barriers for a black character and the character himself. Theres a right way to do it

Indeed. Like I said, time is on our side in terms of more people wanting T’Challas story to continue in the MCU. The more people heal from Boseman’s passing the more people will want to see the king.

[DigiCom]

You might be interested to know who turns up in this week's Falcon & Winter Soldier

spoilers:

Lemar "Battlestar" Hoskins

end of spoilers

Oh, and

spoilers:

Isaiah Bradley, played by Carl Lumbly

end of spoilers

[Toonstrack]

You might be interested to know who turns up in this week's Falcon & Winter Soldier

spoilers:

Lemar "Battlestar" Hoskins

end of spoilers

Oh, and

spoilers:

Isaiah Bradley, played by Carl Lumbly

end of spoilers

Also a wakanda namedrop referencing Buckys time there and how they called him white wolf. Falcon even jokes that with his newfound stealthy tactic he is acting like "white panther" XD

And yea Lumbly stole the ENTIRE episode. That was an incredible scene

[BlackClaw]

spoilers:

I seriously need to see a flashback to Isiah fighting Bucky back in the day. Carl Lumbly acted his ass off in this episode.

end of spoilers

[Ezyo1000]

Yup. This situation is so unprecedented and sensitive that any strong vocal support one way or the other is going to make waves. It doesnt have to be toxic forsure. It can easily be positive since recasting helps both Bosemans hollywood legacy of breaking financial barriers for a black character and the character himself. Theres a right way to do it

This, people keep talking about Chad and no one can replicate what he did, yet seem to causally forget that actors playing a character aren't trying to copy the ACTOR before them, but bring the CHARACTER to life and show sides to them. You can't replace Chad, just like no one could replace Heath, but your not trying to be the replacement but a successor to continue the legacy and stories. Okoye Shuri, nakia mbaku etc none of them have any connections to the greater MU or any note worthy stories to tell and adapt. So until they do let T'Challas story be told to completion

[Ekie]

Also a wakanda namedrop referencing Buckys time there and how they called him white wolf. Falcon even jokes that with his newfound stealthy tactic he is acting like "white panther" XD

And yea Lumbly stole the ENTIRE episode. That was an incredible scene

I hate the fact that caps franchise has stolen so much from Black Panther including calling Bucky white wolf.
Never mind the zemo stuff with him killing king t'chaka and nobody giving a damn.

This is why white wolf is important. King t'chaka was an example for t'challa yet in the movies he comes off almost as a villain since coogler had him abandon a black child in the hood after killing his own brother. That's some Coats type ish.
King t'chaka was not that type of man. He was a great father and a great example to t'challa. Part of that example was him opening up his heart and his country and his Palace to an abandoned white child who happens to crash-land in their neighborhood. An example in humanity and decency.
Tell me what movie verse TChaka would have done with that white child? The same thing that he did with that black kid in the hood or worse. That isn't the man that t'chaka is supposed to be.
White wolf is only important because tchaka took him in and made him part of the royal family setting an example in humanity against all of the teachings of his Nation that t'challa learned from when he decided to open wakanda up to the rest of the world in order to provide help. That's an important lesson that was like many other things stolen from the movie verse. Part of black panthers fundamental story is about fatherhood and setting an example for your kids. An example that t'challa still struggles to live up to in the comics.
Just bothers me and i cant watch it.

Reboot it with Denzel (Tchaka) and John (Tchalla) and have Fuqua direct lol just need to cast a young Tchalla for the flashback scenes

[chief12d]

I agree T’Challa needs more love but I wouldn’t be too despondent. T’Challa will be Black Panther in the Avengers game, he’s the Black Panther in multiple animated cartoons such as EMH, if there’s a solo video game he will be the main character, he’s in Fortnite, he’s the Black Panther. Even if they replace him with an OC (I sure hope they don’t), T’Challa is still going to be the guy people think of when they think of “Black Panther”. And Marvel can’t get rid of or replace him in the comics without getting major backlash, so he’ll still be holding down the mantle here.

Is it possible we’ll get into Spider-Man territory, where even though Peter is the Spider-Man, Miles, Gwen, and others have carved out fanbases for themselves? Sure, it’s totally possible. But I don’t think T’Challa is so easily dislodged from his prominence, and all it takes is one great Immortal Hulk tier run and he’ll be back on his feet. I know the status quo sucks ass at the moment but you gotta hold on to hope that things will get better.

Nope not yet. All we know is they passed on Redjack. Hoping next month’s solicits will finally tell us who gets the job.

That's entirely fair. T'Challa will always have a place in the comics and even in Marvel's multimedia marketing. His shadow will presumably loom large in at least the next sequel and they'll continue using him in other mediums. Whether it'll be at the same level as when he was actually in the MCU remains to be seen but compared to many other characters T'Challa has gotten a good bit of time in the sun and hopefully he continues to get that shine despite not being in the movies.

I hate the fact that caps franchise has stolen so much from Black Panther including calling Bucky white wolf.
Never mind the zemo stuff with him killing king t'chaka and nobody giving a damn.

This is why white wolf is important. King t'chaka was an example for t'challa yet in the movies he comes off almost as a villain since coogler had him abandon a black child in the hood after killing his own brother. That's some Coats type ish.
King t'chaka was not that type of man. He was a great father and a great example to t'challa. Part of that example was him opening up his heart and his country and his Palace to an abandoned white child who happens to crash-land in their neighborhood. An example in humanity and decency.
Tell me what movie verse TChaka would have done with that white child? The same thing that he did with that black kid in the hood or worse. That isn't the man that t'chaka is supposed to be.
White wolf is only important because tchaka took him in and made him part of the royal family setting an example in humanity against all of the teachings of his Nation that t'challa learned from when he decided to open wakanda up to the rest of the world in order to provide help. That's an important lesson that was like many other things stolen from the movie verse. Part of black panthers fundamental story is about fatherhood and setting an example for your kids. An example that t'challa still struggles to live up to in the comics.
Just bothers me and i cant watch it.

Reboot it with Denzel (Tchaka) and John (Tchalla) and have Fuqua direct lol just need to cast a young Tchalla for the flashback scenes

I think we were supposed to get some insight into T'Chaka's elevated sense of morality when he chooses to have Wakanda step out the shadows and address the world about the Sokovia Accords. I think the MCU did a great job balancing the grey aspects of the character. He initiated the steps toward making Wakanda a bigger part of the world but he still had no intention of revealing their true capabilities and helping people across the globe. He was a father who taught his son honor but left his nephew to rot on the streets of Oakland.

He was a good man, but incredibly flawed. You don't need White Wolf in order to convey that. When he tells T'Challa that "you are a good man, and it's hard for a good man to be king" he was speaking from personal experience. T'Chaka in the comics was never supposed to be a beacon of righteousness, always a cautionary tale about 1) the need for T'Challa to prepare for the unknown and 2) the pressures of kingship that compel T'Challa to be a hero. That means he needs to have flaws and do things that would make any regular person disgusted. Because T'Chaka put his throne before morality in a way that T'Challa never would. I think the films illustrated that nicely, even if it didn't incorporate the White Wolf character.

I would say the far more egregious change to BP lore was having Nakia be the one to suggest that Wakanda open up fully and share their resources. That should've been a concept T'Challa proposes in the wake of Killmonger's attack rather than an idea he adopts. Ideally it would've been an idea that T'Challa had in the beginning of the film so we can see it clash with Killmonger's more radical ideology like Xavier and Magneto. It lessened T'Challa's agency and contributions to not give him what is effectively his biggest reform to Wakanda in the comics.

[Ekie]

Pre coats what was grey about Tchakas morality?Tchalla has never seen him as such.

And the movie does having a reference being a good King but it takes heavy inferance to assume hes talking about himself. Especially after we see him abandon a newly fatherless child at his hands

[chief12d]

Pre coats what was grey about Tchakas morality?Tchalla has never seen him as such.

And the movie does having a reference being a good King but it takes heavy inferance to assume hes talking about himself. Especially after we see him abandon a newly fatherless child at his hands

I mean T'Chaka adopted an orphaned white kid but then trained him to become leader of a secret police force so repugnant to T'Challa's sensibilities he banished them from Wakanda. Wasn't he the guy who explained to T'Challa during the Incursions that Wakanda had turned its back to the outside world for generations and that that was a "king's morality"? They had a flashback of dude posted up on a wall looking down on crying mothers and children as he left them to die in a drought lol. T'Chaka is not a hero or a man T'Challa should seek to be in every way. He was honorable, but he was a king, hence he made atrocious choices T'Challa would almost never emulate. That's why T'Challa is a hero and the man who will change the world and why T'Chaka did not.

I don't think it takes that much inference to assume he was referencing himself as well in that scene. As I've been saying, T'Chaka taught his son how to be a good person so we can assume that T'Chaka himself wasn't a monstrous killing machine. I highly doubt that killing his brother and leaving his nephew behind didn't weigh on his soul at all. Zuri could barely look at T'Challa in the eyes when he explained how dirty he and T'Chaka did Killmonger. Doesn't mean he wouldn't do it again or anything, but I think T'Chaka considered himself a good man who at some point was willing to put aside his own sense of justice to properly assume the role of king. So when T'Chaka essentially tells T'Challa that it'll be hard for him to balance his heroic morality with his kingly responsibility, he was speaking to his own experiences as a king (who was in his mind) forced to kill, abandon, and lie to those in his own family.

[Ekie]

LOL hey we don't know if Hunter was trained to be the psychopath he was or he was just a psychopath given responsibility. I cant put that on tchaka.

Also in hickmans run that you reference Tchaka did have a code that placed wakandan security above all else but thats not necessarily a bad thing given the stakes at the time.

And the last part was Coats nonsense i believe ( same writer that turned wakanda in the colonizers) so its ignorable lol

[chief12d]

LOL hey we don't know if Hunter was trained to be the psychopath he was or he was just a psychopath given responsibility. I cant put that on tchaka.

Also in hickmans run that you reference Tchaka did have a code that placed wakandan security above all else but thats not necessarily a bad thing given the stakes at the time.

And the last part was Coats nonsense i believe ( same writer that turned wakanda in the colonizers) so its ignorable lol

Train was the wrong word to use, but he was given a position where he had to oversee/perform acts of torture, assassination, etc., things T’Challa disproved of which is why he banished the Hatut Zeraze. T’Chaka was fine with the HZ doing the things he did because he thought it was necessary for the realm, T’Challa believes Wakanda needs to be better than that. Hunter was a psychopath on his own though lol, you’re right T’Chaka ain’t responsible for that.

The flashback was when there weren’t any incursions lol. Hickman put it in New Avengers to show just how morally repugnant the implications were of Wakanda always putting themselves first. Even in situations where it wasn’t really life or death (like accepting what we’re obviously refugees). Coates had nothing to do with it lol, all this stuff predates him. T’Chaka is not a saint, it’s important that he isn’t so we can understand how T’Challa tries to be a better man.

[Ekie]

Ah I thought that was Coats.

Yes you are right he definitely wasnt a saint bynoutside standards but I still say his actions and Wakanda first mentality differ from outright abandoning a child he himself made a bastard. Thats just cruel.

Tchalla is definitely the moral superior as you said and as he should be. And I stil think Hunter is a lesson in motality that needed to be shown so we can see how Tchalla developed him own sense of morality through that action. The general audience is atrocious when it comes to reading between lines and making inferences. They need to be shown instead. Especially since they have no previous knowledge to draw on

[Ezyo1000]

That's entirely fair. T'Challa will always have a place in the comics and even in Marvel's multimedia marketing. His shadow will presumably loom large in at least the next sequel and they'll continue using him in other mediums. Whether it'll be at the same level as when he was actually in the MCU remains to be seen but compared to many other characters T'Challa has gotten a good bit of time in the sun and hopefully he continues to get that shine despite not being in the movies.



I think we were supposed to get some insight into T'Chaka's elevated sense of morality when he chooses to have Wakanda step out the shadows and address the world about the Sokovia Accords. I think the MCU did a great job balancing the grey aspects of the character. He initiated the steps toward making Wakanda a bigger part of the world but he still had no intention of revealing their true capabilities and helping people across the globe. He was a father who taught his son honor but left his nephew to rot on the streets of Oakland.

He was a good man, but incredibly flawed. You don't need White Wolf in order to convey that. When he tells T'Challa that "you are a good man, and it's hard for a good man to be king" he was speaking from personal experience. T'Chaka in the comics was never supposed to be a beacon of righteousness, always a cautionary tale about 1) the need for T'Challa to prepare for the unknown and 2) the pressures of kingship that compel T'Challa to be a hero. That means he needs to have flaws and do things that would make any regular person disgusted. Because T'Chaka put his throne before morality in a way that T'Challa never would. I think the films illustrated that nicely, even if it didn't incorporate the White Wolf character.

I would say the far more egregious change to BP lore was having Nakia be the one to suggest that Wakanda open up fully and share their resources. That should've been a concept T'Challa proposes in the wake of Killmonger's attack rather than an idea he adopts. Ideally it would've been an idea that T'Challa had in the beginning of the film so we can see it clash with Killmonger's more radical ideology like Xavier and Magneto. It lessened T'Challa's agency and contributions to not give him what is effectively his biggest reform to Wakanda in the comics.

I agree with the nakia thing. What Coogler should of done was made everyone against the idea (ramonda, Zuri, w'kabi, and Okoye) Shuri takes a whatever stance, and nakia agrees eithtjim given her experience out in the world. It would of clashed the ideas between T'Challa and Erik, and reinforced unity with both of them supporting one another. Coogler made T'Challa a Little too neutral knzfoof leaning onto opening Wakanda

[chief12d]

Ah I thought that was Coats.

Yes you are right he definitely wasnt a saint bynoutside standards but I still say his actions and Wakanda first mentality differ from outright abandoning a child he himself made a bastard. Thats just cruel.

Tchalla is definitely the moral superior as you said and as he should be. And I stil think Hunter is a lesson in motality that needed to be shown so we can see how Tchalla developed him own sense of morality through that action. The general audience is atrocious when it comes to reading between lines and making inferences. They need to be shown instead. Especially since they have no previous knowledge to draw on

I see where you’re coming from, I guess for me the MCU still captured the spirit of who T’Chaka is supposed to be. A man with a strong sense of honor and pride driven to do morally bad things to protect his kingdom. The MCU takes an extra step forward I can admit with the whole leaving his nephew an orphan thing lol, but I still think the character served his purpose in the story. It’s for that reason I don’t think Hunter is absolutely needed.

Sure, he would’ve bolstered the credibility of T’Chaka as a good man but despite that even general audiences could see the goodness in the character through the way he tried to speak at the UN and of course how he interacted with his son. For all his flaws I think that what little we got to see of T’Chaka conveyed that he was a a worthy man for T’Challa to take inspiration from.