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  1. #331
    The Professional Marvell2100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigiCom View Post
    It's a million-dollar question with a 1.3 billion-dollar answer:



    If you think Disney cares about ANYTHING other than the bottom line, I have this bridge…
    Brother, can you spare a couple of hundred thou?

  2. #332
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redjack View Post
    Lee and Kirby's T'Challa was not a super-hero

    McGregor's T'Challa was a super-hero and a king

    Kirby's T'Challa was an adventurer and a king

    Priest's T'Challa was not a super-hero.

    Hudlin's T'Challa was not a super-hero

    Aaron's T'Challa was not a super-hero.

    Liss's T'Challa stood in for a super-hero for a short time.

    BPQ T'Challa was not a super-hero.

    Ewing's T'Challa was an adventurer and a king.

    Hickman's T'Challa was not a super-hero

    Coates's T'Challa is not a super-hero

    Narcisse's T'Challa is not a super-hero

    The Panther is here for Wakanda first. When something threatens the world, it threatens Wakanda. The Avengers (in comics) were a potential threat to Wakanda that needed a hands-on approach to investigation.
    I feel like at certain points most of these writers basically still wrote T'Challa as a Superhero in the truest sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    By the basic definition he's not a superhero. He's done heroic things for sure but so has Namor and even Doom. While he doesn't have the atrocities that they've committed, a lot of his actions are questionable. A lot of his motivations aren't about what's the heroic thing to do.
    How does he not fit the basic definition of a Superhero? What definition are we even using here?

    Not everything T'Challa does has been questionable or some long complex plot. I think he has plenty of heroic motivations driving what he does, even when it pertains just to Wakanda.
    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    Sure... the first time.

    What about other times he joined the team just to do super hero things?

    Or the Fantastic Four?

    He is a superhero king or a kingly superhero. He slides on that same scale as Namor, Blackbolt, Doom but while Doom slides nearly pure evil, T'challa sides nearly pure good.

    Acting like he is Black Bolt (someone who rarely gets involved in anything non-atillian related) is kind of exaggerating IMHO
    Yeah, even though he joined the team to spy on them he still enjoyed being an Avenger and doing Avenger stuff (which is, y'know, Superhero stuff).

  3. #333
    Astonishing Member Redjack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    They can do the same with Loki since he was the star of all of the Thor movies.

    I mean, after all, he was abandoned at birth, adopted by a father who neglected him ,a brother who made him feel inferior and a mother who pretended to love him. It
    took courage for him to stand on his own two feet and become his own man. He found friends who only wanted to come over and hang out on Earth but his brother and along with his new besties the Avengers were jealous and drove his new friends away.

    It's a classic Greek tragedy.
    no it isn't.

    Erik Killmonger is a mass-murdering, serial-killing psychopath who make speeches to justify his sociopathy. He is charismatic and capable but he is a monster. Of his own making. Indeed, his infantile excuses for justifying his brutality show him to be one of the weakest children of Wakanda ever born. There's no redemption arc for that.

  4. #334
    Invincible Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redjack View Post
    no it isn't.

    Erik Killmonger is a mass-murdering, serial-killing psychopath who make speeches to justify his sociopathy. He is charismatic and capable but he is a monster. Of his own making. Indeed, his infantile excuses for justifying his brutality show him to be one of the weakest children of Wakanda ever born. There's no redemption arc for that.
    Well, I mean, his own dad went full terrorist/traitor over some American WAP so I mean... t'chaka must have got ALL the good genes cause N'joboboobobobobobobo aint it lol
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  5. #335
    Astonishing Member Overhazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redjack View Post
    no it isn't.

    Erik Killmonger is a mass-murdering, serial-killing psychopath who make speeches to justify his sociopathy. He is charismatic and capable but he is a monster. Of his own making. Indeed, his infantile excuses for justifying his brutality show him to be one of the weakest children of Wakanda ever born. There's no redemption arc for that.
    Killmonger to me was just a hotep with a gym membership. If he had a beard (they always have beards, why do they all have beards?) and a gut like a real hotep no one would have taken him that seriously.

  6. #336
    The Professional Marvell2100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    How does he not fit the basic definition of a Superhero? What definition are we even using here?

    Not everything T'Challa does has been questionable or some long complex plot. I think he has plenty of heroic motivations driving what he does, even when it pertains just to Wakanda.

    Yeah, even though he joined the team to spy on them he still enjoyed being an Avenger and doing Avenger stuff (which is, y'know, Superhero stuff).
    You just said it. He has heroic motivations at times but that doesn't make him a superhero. Blade and Hulk also joined the Avengers.

  7. #337
    The Professional Marvell2100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redjack View Post
    no it isn't.

    Erik Killmonger is a mass-murdering, serial-killing psychopath who make speeches to justify his sociopathy. He is charismatic and capable but he is a monster. Of his own making. Indeed, his infantile excuses for justifying his brutality show him to be one of the weakest children of Wakanda ever born. There's no redemption arc for that.
    My post was being sarcastic.

  8. #338
    Astonishing Member Ekie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redjack View Post
    no it isn't.

    Erik Killmonger is a mass-murdering, serial-killing psychopath who make speeches to justify his sociopathy. He is charismatic and capable but he is a monster. Of his own making. Indeed, his infantile excuses for justifying his brutality show him to be one of the weakest children of Wakanda ever born. There's no redemption arc for that.
    Exactly. Hes suppoded to be charismatic, hes supposed to be convincing and hes supposed to create a type of following.

    What hes not supposed to do is fool Tchalla into believing hes something other than a psycho. Yet in the movie, at the very end they chose to make him die heroically when it was just the two of them around.

    And now ppl think hes a viable candidate to replace what is now deemed as an interchangeable figurehead in Tchalla. I don't understand why that was necessary other than to make the character or the actor look good. But maybe they had plans the next movie I don't know
    Last edited by Ekie; 01-12-2021 at 11:09 AM.

  9. #339
    Ultimate Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    Well, I mean, his own dad went full terrorist/traitor over some American WAP so I mean... t'chaka must have got ALL the good genes cause N'joboboobobobobobobo aint it lol
    This apart made me laugh way harder than it should of. But yeah. Erik is a charismatic sociopath. He has the great speeches and indeed his situation was indeed tragic. T'Chaka abandoned him. However, what he chose to do as an adult cannot be justified that he was some kind of hero like people have claimed. He didn't have a arc or journey, he died the same way he lived. He didn't change at all

  10. #340
    Ultimate Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ekie View Post
    Exactly. Hes suppoded to be charismatic, hes supposed to be convincing and hes supposed to create a type of following.

    What hes not supposed to do is fool Tchalla into believing hes something other than a psycho. Yet in the movie, at the very end they chose to make him die heroically when it was just the two of them around.

    And now ppl think hes a viable candidate to replace what is now deemed as an interchangeable figurehead in Tchalla. I don't understand why that was necessary other than to make the character or the actor look good. But maybe they had plans the next movie I don't know
    Except he didn't....? T'Challa said as much to him and his ancestors. He was a monster. T'Challa knew that. He simply showed compassion after he soundly defeated Erik, like he did to M'Baku. There was no heroic death, he simply sped up his death by T'Challas hand. See people seem to ignore that T'Challa didn't follow Eriks or even Nakias plans. What they wanted were extremes on opposite ends of the spectrum. T'Challa chose his own path.

    When it boils down to it. Erik was an angry Black man. Charismatic and sympathetic even, but he also showed his true colors since the drop when we are introduced to him in adulthood. You don't poison someone, shoot your girlfriend through the heart when she's captured, choke an old lady, and kill your subjects and attempt to kill your cousin/s and try to claim he was some sort of hero. That is scary and delusional thinking. Erik was a sympathetic Villain at no point in the movie did he ever do anything remotely heroic end of story.
    Last edited by Ezyo1000; 01-12-2021 at 11:31 AM.

  11. #341
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    The rhetoric of revolution is far more seductive to general audiences than the politics of moderation. Killmonger is not unique in that. Doom, Namor, and Magneto are characters that have built substantial fanbases predicated on the belief that while their methods are barbaric and immoral, they ultimately serve a greater good for the world or their "people". Killmonger was gonna be seen as a viable successor to T'Challa no matter how unstable Coogler depicted him.

    His radical approach to changing the status quo of black folks globally resonates too strong for some people to just write him off. Killmonger is everything that posters have described him as: an angry black man, a hotep, a sociopath obsessed with domination, etc. Let's not act like that's not a type of fiction attractive to many people, especially in the times we're currently in.

  12. #342
    Astonishing Member Redjack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    The rhetoric of revolution is far more seductive to general audiences than the politics of moderation. Killmonger is not unique in that. Doom, Namor, and Magneto are characters that have built substantial fanbases predicated on the belief that while their methods are barbaric and immoral, they ultimately serve a greater good for the world or their "people". Killmonger was gonna be seen as a viable successor to T'Challa no matter how unstable Coogler depicted him.

    His radical approach to changing the status quo of black folks globally resonates too strong for some people to just write him off. Killmonger is everything that posters have described him as: an angry black man, a hotep, a sociopath obsessed with domination, etc. Let's not act like that's not a type of fiction attractive to many people, especially in the times we're currently in.
    yeah. all true. and you'll never see me make that guy a hero in anything i write.

    magneto is a racist butcher.
    Namor is a genocidal killer
    Doom is, well, he's the bad guy so, whatever on him.

  13. #343
    Astonishing Member Redjack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    My post was being sarcastic.
    i hate social media sometimes. no nuance or tone in a typed opinion.

    apologies for any tension.

  14. #344

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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    The rhetoric of revolution is far more seductive to general audiences than the politics of moderation. Killmonger is not unique in that. Doom, Namor, and Magneto are characters that have built substantial fanbases predicated on the belief that while their methods are barbaric and immoral, they ultimately serve a greater good for the world or their "people". Killmonger was gonna be seen as a viable successor to T'Challa no matter how unstable Coogler depicted him.

    His radical approach to changing the status quo of black folks globally resonates too strong for some people to just write him off. Killmonger is everything that posters have described him as: an angry black man, a hotep, a sociopath obsessed with domination, etc. Let's not act like that's not a type of fiction attractive to many people, especially in the times we're currently in.
    But when in life do we actually get to vent. When do we actually get to be as angry as we want to be, as we feel we deserve to be, instead we tell ourselves we have to be better than and worry about how we will come off looking to others. Killmonger as basic as he seems in this world for a black character, was actually kind of revolutionary. I don't know maybe i'm a sociopath too but i felt nothing for Tchalla he felt spoiled, he felt coddled, Tchalla to me lived a life too similar to what i lived whereas killmonmger lived a life i didn't even know people lived, like really lived until i was older. I mean i knew, a lot of my friends would have been killmonger and who am i to say why anyone does anything. Why do people after being arrested still go out on the streets and sell drugs, or do any of the many things they do that get them arrested. Why do some people who make it feel like they abandoned the hood and why do others think they changed. For me and to me, Killmonger made that movie.

    I mean at one point in time to remain friends when i was really young i felt i even had to lie about my dad not being around. I mean in hindsight it seems crazy but everyone else i hung out with had one parent or no parent. So not everyone fits in the same box.
    Last edited by jwatson; 01-12-2021 at 12:49 PM.
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  15. #345
    The Professional Marvell2100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redjack View Post
    i hate social media sometimes. no nuance or tone in a typed opinion.

    apologies for any tension.
    Dude, it's all good. Next time I see you at a convention, just give me the look:



    And we alright.

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