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  1. #3871
    Spectacular Member Pumbaa's Avatar
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    These things are all possible, just seems so uncharacteristic of the Mouse House.

    Disney is supposed to be this big soulless company that works with China regardless of human rights violations, fires directors left and right, and don't give a fuck about nothing but making money.

    The fact that people keep saying we've had 3 Spiderman, 3 jokers, 3 supermen, 3 batmen etc seems to reinforce the point about these corporations. Even in the MCU they recast War Machine, Hulk and Red Skull and moved forward without missing a beat or even really addressing it.
    Why isn't the big soulless corporation squeezing every cent out of their most successful solo character (T'challa) the same way they did for those other characters?

    Thats the attitude you expect from the Mouse; moving on with the plan regardless of real world issues.

    I disagree with the decision, but the fact that they are treating this differently makes me think they genuinely think they are honoring Chadwick this way. There might be another agenda at play. But nothing that seems obvious to me. Seems like they are leaving money on the table for emotional reasons. As someone that is not that emotional anymore, I just want more T'challa. Maybe if I knew Chad personally and worked on the movie I would feel differently.

  2. #3872
    Extraordinary Member jwatson's Avatar
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    And i just came back to add Oprah to that list. For all the good oprah does look at the image she thinks will sell of black people. The have and have nots. Slave movie after slave movie. Oprah and them be like know your history, know your herstory, but how come oprah has not produced anything showing queens and kings of africa. how come she isn't putting her money behind projects that show what black excellence was, is, and can be. Wakanda wasn't all fantasy. So yeah.
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  3. #3873
    Extraordinary Member jwatson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pumbaa View Post
    These things are all possible, just seems so uncharacteristic of the Mouse House.

    Disney is supposed to be this big soulless company that works with China regardless of human rights violations, fires directors left and right, and don't give a fuck about nothing but making money.

    The fact that people keep saying we've had 3 Spiderman, 3 jokers, 3 supermen, 3 batmen etc seems to reinforce the point about these corporations. Even in the MCU they recast War Machine, Hulk and Red Skull and moved forward without missing a beat or even really addressing it.
    Why isn't the big soulless corporation squeezing every cent out of their most successful solo character (T'challa) the same way they did for those other characters?

    Thats the attitude you expect from the Mouse; moving on with the plan regardless of real world issues.

    I disagree with the decision, but the fact that they are treating this differently makes me think they genuinely think they are honoring Chadwick this way. There might be another agenda at play. But nothing that seems obvious to me. Seems like they are leaving money on the table for emotional reasons. As someone that is not that emotional anymore, I just want more T'challa. Maybe if I knew Chad personally and worked on the movie I would feel differently.
    And what is Disney black audience doing? For the most part they looking left while disney supporting the right. I mean you can see stuff for what it is and recognize game. They pay people to do this stuff. And the money they are leaving on the table? They are saving it on Boseman check and his backend if he had it. And now there is no strong lead to fight for the pockets of the other actors in an indusrry where minorities men, and women are underpaid. Who is the star that can now protect these people from this company that as you said, don't care. There ya go.

    Dang now ya'll got me deep in my thoughts too. Because i'm wondering, why don't succesful black people want other black people to have super heros that look like that. I mean should i say don't want or rather don't do it. Like Tyler Perry has made how many Madeas, a budget for royal security, Why did i get married, but not one reputable black super hero. I never thought about that.
    Last edited by jwatson; 04-13-2021 at 07:11 AM.
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  4. #3874
    Spectacular Member Pumbaa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ekie View Post
    *Raises hand*

    M.o.n.e.y

    T'challa is now their highest grossing Solo character....ever

    The actor leading that franchise would command a paycheck similar to Robert Downey Junior's or more. Without that role everything/everyone is interchangeable and the real star is "The rich culture of Wakanda".

    Wakanda aint getting that massive RDJ paycheck
    Ayo aint getting
    Shuri.....Mbaku....Oyoke...Nakia...ect ect

    No Tchalla means no lead solo character which mean Disney cal save move money, look altruistic (which Disney is not), and keep the franchise in a box. None ofnthe characters named above are gonna be competing with Dr Strange or Captain Marvel for the face of the MCU nor will they be defeating any Thanos level threats

    Ryan may be a cool guy but this franchise is bigger than him and would move on without him if he left. He initially didnt see tchallas value anyway and dispersed him attributes. Im sure he believes he can make a solid movie without him.
    But the endless recasts of Spider-man, Batman, Superman etc are also all about Money. I would argue that recasting is a safer bet if money is your primary goal. New actor means you start paying him entry level salaries at first (maybe they would have built up to RDJ salary eventually but not until you bring in RDJ box office). And the merchandising of T'challa seems easier than Wakanda.

    Maybe I'm wrong but these companies have always cared about money. But this is the first time I've seen this honor and legacy thing.(I guess this situation isn't exactly like the others either)

  5. #3875
    Extraordinary Member jwatson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pumbaa View Post
    But the endless recasts of Spider-man, Batman, Superman etc are also all about Money. I would argue that recasting is a safer bet if money is your primary goal. New actor means you start paying him entry level salaries at first (maybe they would have built up to RDJ salary eventually but not until you bring in RDJ box office). And the merchandising of T'challa seems easier than Wakanda.

    Maybe I'm wrong but these companies have always cared about money. But this is the first time I've seen this honor and legacy thing.(I guess this situation isn't exactly like the others either)
    I would argue it would be way more expensive to completely have to relocate where key parts in a Wakanda movie is filmed because your Biggest stars won't film Atlanta.
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  6. #3876
    Spectacular Member Pumbaa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    And i just came back to add Oprah to that list. For all the good oprah does look at the image she thinks will sell of black people. The have and have nots. Slave movie after slave movie. Oprah and them be like know your history, know your herstory, but how come oprah has not produced anything showing queens and kings of africa. how come she isn't putting her money behind projects that show what black excellence was, is, and can be. Wakanda wasn't all fantasy. So yeah.
    Yeah, honestly I always found it weird that Americans would rather tell stories about enslavement than their history in Africa before it. But I'm not American so I don't really care, its their history and they can do what they want with it.

    But I would say Coogler has no business being named in this group. With Creed, BP and Space Jam, he's clearly able to do more than just oppression stories.

  7. #3877
    Extraordinary Member jwatson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pumbaa View Post
    Yeah, honestly I always found it weird that Americans would rather tell stories about enslavement than their history in Africa before it. But I'm not American so I don't really care, its their history and they can do what they want with it.

    But I would say Coogler has no business being named in this group. With Creed, BP and Space Jam, he's clearly able to do more than just oppression stories.
    No it makes perfect sense now. There is an instinct or an undertone or something there that a non American black person just wouldn't get. I don't mean that as an offense but it explains to me where your postiton is coming from and puts it into context.
    Don't let anyone else hold the candle that lights the way to your future because only you can sustain the flame.

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  8. #3878
    Spectacular Member Pumbaa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    I would argue it would be way more expensive to completely have to relocate where key parts in a Wakanda movie is filmed because your Biggest stars won't film Atlanta.
    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    No it makes perfect sense now. There is an instinct or an undertone or something there that a non American black person just wouldn't get. I don't mean that as an offense but it explains to me where your postiton is coming from and puts it into context.
    Yup, I don't even know what you are referring to with the Atlanta comment (sorry I'm lazy to look it up). Maybe its just an American thing.

  9. #3879
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    Disney’s not recasting because they’re not forcing their most celebrated and socially significant director in the MCU to do anything he’s not comfortable with. They’re a soulless corporation, even if they truly thought getting rid of T’Challa was the honorable thing to do they wouldn’t do it if the decision were up to them. I maintain to this day that if Marvel announced they were recasting back in December people would’ve mostly gotten over it by now and if they pushed the film back 2-3 years then announced a recast there’d be very little outrage at all.

    They didn’t do it because Coogler gets final say, he’s the one guy they can’t afford losing when it comes to BP and if he says “I want to memorialize my friend and have a different character play out the story I had in mind” what’s Disney gonna do? Fire him? The best they could do is try and convince him otherwise but in the wake of the passing of their most visible black superhero, a literal icon of pop culture who was the face of their biggest solo film, they not getting rid of Coogler under any circumstances or forcing him to put out a project he’s not emotionally invested in. He was the mind that made BP the phenomenon it was. If it was revealed a company like Disney is forcing a grieving black creator to continue a character his dead friend once played the PR storm would be insane.

    Coogler and to a lesser extent the entire cast had all the cards here, the last thing you want is for leaks to start happening about disputes between suits and the people who actually knew Boseman, or for there to be people dropping out the project in protest (assuming they felt that strongly). It adds another layer of uncertainty a sequel already shrouded in worry after Boseman’s passing. It’s not about money in this situation, it’s about the feelings of a group of people who genuinely feel they’re better off retiring Boseman’s character than having someone play his role on set. Those were the people who got to decide how to move forward. The suits just approved the decision and said “as long as you throw in some of that ‘Wakanda Forever’ stuff and don’t tell an unprofitable story we’ll give you the benefit of the doubt”
    Last edited by chief12d; 04-13-2021 at 07:41 AM.

  10. #3880
    Incredible Member Klaue's Mixtape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pulp Fiction View Post
    The fact that people are upset just goes to show you that the t'challa in the black panther movie wasn't t'challa. Because building a failsafe into bucky's arm is the most t'challa thing he's ever done in the MCU.

  11. #3881
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    I think people here are forgetting something. This situation is similar to the spartacus series. The lead passed away from cancer and the show was fire, the second season did a prequel until they were able to recast the lead and the 3rd season was straight fire. The series was at the highest it had been still in S3. They didn't end the series because the numbers weren't there...

    We all saw what happened when BP was rolling out before and after it hit theaters and how there was a huge cultural movement. That didn't happen because Shuris "What are those" comment or M'Bakus speech at warrior falls. It was T'Challa who lead the movie, T'Challa who had a hand in everything. And when he was "dead" no one could of would step up to save Wakanda and stand up to Erik. This had happened before. It's not a new thing, and you can honor an actor who brought the character to lie without ending the story of said Character.

    I mean come on, Chad had cancer and didn't let that stop him from working on and bringing T'Challa to life. Do people really think after working through cancer that retiring T'Challa after his deaths, when he worked that hard to get the character right, is what he would want? Seriously you put that much effort into a comic Character because you know how important representation is (as others around you claim to support sd well) and you think removing T'Challa is the best way to honor Chad? That completely flies in the face of what he went through
    I hear you and I WAS THE ONE who brought up Spartacus here as an example a long time ago. However, MCU FANS are a DIFFERENT BREED.

    This isn't Rhodey or Banner who only had 1 film before a change. Boseman IS T'Challa to them. Its why there was so much outrage months back about potentially recasting T'Challa on twitter (Again...I was for it. And still am, but understand why they wont)

  12. #3882
    Extraordinary Member jwatson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    Disney’s not recasting because they’re not forcing their most celebrated and socially significant director in the MCU to do anything he’s not comfortable with. They’re a soulless corporation, even if they truly thought getting rid of T’Challa was the honorable thing to do they wouldn’t do it if the decision were up to them. I maintain to this day that if Marvel announced they were recasting back in December people would’ve mostly gotten over it by now and if they pushed the film back 2-3 years then announced a recast there’d be very little outrage at all.

    They didn’t do it because Coogler gets final say, he’s the one guy they can’t afford losing when it comes to BP and if he says “I want to memorialize my friend and have a different character play out the story I had in mind” what’s Disney gonna do? Fire him? The best they could do is try and convince him otherwise but in the wake of the passing of their most visible black superhero, a literal icon of pop culture who was the face of their biggest solo film, they not getting rid of Coogler under any circumstances or forcing him to put out a project he’s not emotionally invested in. He was the mind that made BP the phenomenon it was. If it was revealed a company like Disney is forcing a grieving black creator to continue a character his dead friend once played the PR storm would be insane.

    Coogler and to a lesser extent the entire cast had all the cards here, the last thing you want is for leaks to start happening about disputes between suits and the people who actually knew Boseman, or for there to be people dropping out the project in protest (assuming they felt that strongly). It adds another layer of uncertainty a sequel already shrouded in worry after Boseman’s passing. It’s not about money in this situation, it’s about the feelings of a group of people who genuinely feel they’re better off retiring Boseman’s character than having someone play his role on set. Those were the people who got to decide how to move forward. The suits just approved the decision and said “as long as you throw in some of that ‘Wakanda Forever’ stuff and don’t tell an unprofitable story we’ll give you the benefit of the doubt”
    If Disney was a truly heartless/ souless company as people say then yes, that is exactly what they would do. They would fire him if that is what is what this was really about and that was all they really were. Johhny Dep was still making disney money, where he at?

    And what PR storm? LOL first of all there would have been the people who want a recast, backed by the people on disney pr that would have tore coogler to shreds for being "selfish" when in their opinion they are continuing his legacy with continuation of such an iconic character. But i don't buy bridges and i'm really derailing things so i'm just going to stop now.

    To be clear i don't feel that way but to say Disney would have taken a hit when they hire the pr best is a very innocent statement imo.
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  13. #3883
    Mighty Member Ekie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pumbaa View Post
    But the endless recasts of Spider-man, Batman, Superman etc are also all about Money. I would argue that recasting is a safer bet if money is your primary goal. New actor means you start paying him entry level salaries at first (maybe they would have built up to RDJ salary eventually but not until you bring in RDJ box office). And the merchandising of T'challa seems easier than Wakanda.

    Maybe I'm wrong but these companies have always cared about money. But this is the first time I've seen this honor and legacy thing.(I guess this situation isn't exactly like the others either)
    PR is also something that is considered when we're talkin about corporate money. They made the bet that getting the good PR of retiring the character to honor Bozeman while at the same time saving themselves from a massive contract for a franchise lead replacement woild be the safest route

    That bet will pay off the fans do voice their opinion and change their view on what the pr is for the situation. There are plenty of new casual fans that have accepted the move because they're uninformed about the franchise but happy to have the black representation which is understandable.

    The difference between Spider-Man and the other white characters that constantly get recasted is that their fan base would never allow their replacement without causing massive uproar and bad PR which would cost them money.

    Disney covered up Chadwick Boseman face on Chinese posters to hide the fact that he was a black lead. Race always plays a part
    Last edited by Ekie; 04-13-2021 at 09:32 AM.

  14. #3884
    Mighty Member Ekie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    Disney’s not recasting because they’re not forcing their most celebrated and socially significant director in the MCU to do anything he’s not comfortable with. They’re a soulless corporation, even if they truly thought getting rid of T’Challa was the honorable thing to do they wouldn’t do it if the decision were up to them. I maintain to this day that if Marvel announced they were recasting back in December people would’ve mostly gotten over it by now and if they pushed the film back 2-3 years then announced a recast there’d be very little outrage at all.

    They didn’t do it because Coogler gets final say, he’s the one guy they can’t afford losing when it comes to BP and if he says “I want to memorialize my friend and have a different character play out the story I had in mind” what’s Disney gonna do? Fire him? The best they could do is try and convince him otherwise but in the wake of the passing of their most visible black superhero, a literal icon of pop culture who was the face of their biggest solo film, they not getting rid of Coogler under any circumstances or forcing him to put out a project he’s not emotionally invested in. He was the mind that made BP the phenomenon it was. If it was revealed a company like Disney is forcing a grieving black creator to continue a character his dead friend once played the PR storm would be insane.

    Coogler and to a lesser extent the entire cast had all the cards here, the last thing you want is for leaks to start happening about disputes between suits and the people who actually knew Boseman, or for there to be people dropping out the project in protest (assuming they felt that strongly). It adds another layer of uncertainty a sequel already shrouded in worry after Boseman’s passing. It’s not about money in this situation, it’s about the feelings of a group of people who genuinely feel they’re better off retiring Boseman’s character than having someone play his role on set. Those were the people who got to decide how to move forward. The suits just approved the decision and said “as long as you throw in some of that ‘Wakanda Forever’ stuff and don’t tell an unprofitable story we’ll give you the benefit of the doubt”
    Personally I believe black panther would have been a phenomenon with or without Coogler. He wasn't their first choice lets remember and black panther was a social movement before he was even cast at the director.
    This IP is one of the strongest in fiction.
    That's not the discount coogler success but I'm not going to give him credit for making Black Panther an interesting concept. There are many different ways that it's movie could have been produced which still would have led to massive success

    Marvel consistently under rates the importance and power of this franchise. And the minute they do something with it and they see massive gains like they did with coats they immediately hand over the reins as if someone did something nuanced and incredible with it.

    Working with this content is a privilege for creators
    Last edited by Ekie; 04-13-2021 at 10:22 AM.

  15. #3885
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klaue's Mixtape View Post
    I hope you guys are paying attention to the outrage at Wyatt Russell for being the new "Captain America" (I think he's been great for that role, but anyway)

    And thats just a totally new character.

    I think they really fear what replacing Boseman would do. The constant comparisons would be insane. Then you'd have the Ekie's of the world who'd probably see him failing to live up to comic T'Challa as well.

    This backlash on an actor for accepting a role has really opened up my eyes. Marvel (MCU) fans are territorial and wont give the guy a new chance anyway. So MCU would rather take their lumps with just a "new BP"
    Is this a fair comparison though? The complaint isn't about casting a new Cap let alone casting a new Steve Rogers. The fans hating on Russell hate him because he plays a s&^%%y character which is a testament to his acting and the writing material. As it stands, a lot of the conversations going on are championing Sam to take on the Cap mantle.

    Recasting T'Challa is a very different situation. Yes, there will be inevitable comparisons to Chadwick but as silly as a lot of people behave, most people aren't stupid. An actor played a character and sadly he died. Bring in a new actor and as long as tge material's good, whatever hangups naysayers have they'll get over it. These things happen all the time. I'm willing to bet that if T'Challa was recast his actor won't even come close to experiencing the crap Daniel Craig faced and still faces with his casting as Bond and surprise surprise Casino Royale made more money than Brosnan's films and is by far the best Bond film since OHMSS. Not recasting T'Challa is flippin' stupid.

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