T'Challa: The Black Panther Appreciation 2021

[CosmiComic]

He is saying (I think) that Steve had an incredibly difficult task putting each stone back without changing anything major. Or messing up at all. We all saw what happened when they went to get them and how messy it was.

I mean, just look at the Aether. So... Steve went back to Asgard (without say... Heimdell knowing), found Jane and... re-infected her with the aether? How does that even work? We've never really seen hte Aether manipulated except by Malekith. Did he just point the tube at Jane, at the exact moment Rocket took it away (Cap is much bigger than Rocket so he can't sneak around as well. And Jane would recognize captain america) and... sprinkle it on her? Inject an infinity stone?

So that ist he handwave. That Steve magically did all these things without messing up. AT all.

The problem with Jane was the choice of going back to Dark world. That's not a problem of time travel itself, but the specific situations

IMO the problem is writers not being consistent. The badic idea in Endgame works, thr script just needs to stay with it

[DigiCom]

Honestly I don't see that as a problem. If no one noticed it disappeared, how would anything be changed?

That's a very anthropomorphic view of the timeline, and unsupported by the films. The Ancient One didn't say "removing the Stones is fine, as long as nobody knows about it".

The implication of Bruce's theory is that Cap has to return to the timeline at EXACTLY the same moment they left. There's no indication that the Pym Particle method can cut it that fine.

But even if they do (maybe he overlaps things a bit, so two versions of the same Stone exist at the same time?) there are a lot of subtleties involving exactly how to return the various Stones. MoS mentions one example below.

Time Travel only works if you don't think about it lol

You can really only play by the rules introduced and then just don't think about it. At all. Ever. Because it always ends up unraveling.

Endgame is no exception there. It gave you the MCU "rules" of time travel and you just gotta shrug and go "ok" because... it's really kinda stupid lol

Pretty much, yes. There are VERY few exceptions.

So that ist he handwave. That Steve magically did all these things without messing up. AT all.

Yeah, basically.

[DigiCom]

The problem with Jane was the choice of going back to Dark world. That's not a problem of time travel itself, but the specific situations

IMO the problem is writers not being consistent. The badic idea in Endgame works, thr script just needs to stay with it

Exactly. It's possible to do consistent time travel well. The writers of Endgame didn't.

Most writers don't.

[MindofShadow]

I think Edge of Tomorrow is the only movie with Time Travel shenanigans that didn't hurt my head

But that could just be because I've only seen it once so I didn't "have time" to sit there and poke holes in it lol

[DigiCom]

To expand on the issues. When Steve left, he had Mjolnir, and a briefcase containing the Stones. Nothing else.

So, let's break down the Stones.

Space: He goes back to 1970. But the Space Stone is no longer in the Tesseract. So somehow he has to fix that.
Time: Returned to the Ancient One during Avengers. No worries, she knew it was coming back.
Mind: Returned to the custody of SHIELDRA. But he not only doesn't have the Sceptre, he doesn't have a way to put it back in the crystal that held it before.
Soul: Throws it over a cliff at Vormyr. Maybe he trolls Red Skull for a bit. No paradox,
Power: Returned to the time of GOTG. But he doesn't have the Orb, and even if he did, he doesn't have the tools to put the Stone back into it.
Reality: Goes back to the time of Dark World. But he would somehow have to destroy the Reality Stone AND put it back in Jane.

In THEORY the Time Gem could do it, but Steve doesn't know how to do that.

So, basically, in order for things to work, Steve would need PERFECT timing, amazing stealth, and the powers of an Eternal AND the Eye of Agamotto.

Time Travel is hard.

[MindofShadow]

To expand on the issues. When Steve left, he had Mjolnir, and a briefcase containing the Stones. Nothing else.

So, let's break down the Stones.

Space: He goes back to 1970. But the Space Stone is no longer in the Tesseract. So somehow he has to fix that.
Time: Returned to the Ancient One during Avengers. No worries, she knew it was coming back.
Mind: Returned to the custody of SHIELDRA. But he not only doesn't have the Sceptre, he doesn't have a way to put it back in the crystal that held it before.
Soul: Throws it over a cliff at Vormyr. Maybe he trolls Red Skull for a bit. No paradox,
Power: Returned to the time of GOTG. But he doesn't have the Orb, and even if he did, he doesn't have the tools to put the Stone back into it.
Reality: Goes back to the time of Dark World. But he would somehow have to destroy the Reality Stone AND put it back in Jane.

In THEORY the Time Gem could do it, but Steve doesn't know how to do that.

So, basically, in order for things to work, Steve would need PERFECT timing, amazing stealth, and the powers of an Eternal AND the Eye of Agamotto.

Time Travel is hard.

Shoulda sent Strange back with the Eye

That way, he can keep trying.

"Crap that did't work... ok REVERSE TIME!" lol

He can put the time stone back last

[CosmiComic]

It's entirely possible, because being so precise is nearly impossible, Steve still created separate timelines everywhere he went. We don't actually see what happened to them, and with the Multiverse coming, maybe we'll see he didn't totally succeed.

I think writing time travel can be difficult, but IMO it's not the rules themselves, but writers forgetting them

[DigiCom]

Shoulda sent Strange back with the Eye

That way, he can keep trying.

"Crap that did't work... ok REVERSE TIME!" lol

He can put the time stone back last

That would have made more sense, yeah.

I think writing time travel can be difficult, but IMO it's not the rules themselves, but writers forgetting them

Or picking the wrong set of rules, and not thinking the through. There are at least three different schools of thought for Time Travel stories, and the MCU is trying to use two of them at once.

(We're verging way off topic, here. But suffice it to say, time travel is not a smart way to resurrect Klaw.)

ETA: Four schools. I forgot one.

[Ezyo1000]

Sorry I have nothing to contribute to the conversation, but I read Avengers mech strike. Like MoS said a few pages back, there is some SILLY stuff going on in there... I like it

[MindofShadow]

Sorry I have nothing to contribute to the conversation, but I read Avengers mech strike. Like MoS said a few pages back, there is some SILLY stuff going on in there... I like it

Literally threw Thanos in there too... and are giving him his own mech? Lol

[CosmiComic]

That would have made more sense, yeah.



Or picking the wrong set of rules, and not thinking the through. There are at least three different schools of thought for Time Travel stories, and the MCU is trying to use two of them at once.

(We're verging way off topic, here. But suffice it to say, time travel is not a smart way to resurrect Klaw.)

Well, Klaw could appear in an alternative universe. So that's "timeline travel"

[DigiCom]

Well, Klaw could appear in an alternative universe. So that's "timeline travel"

Yeah. That's one of the methods the MCU tried to use. To explain time-travel in a story, a writer has to answer 3 yes or no questions:

1. Do you go back in time as yourself, or into your original body?
2. Can you actually change the past?
3. When/if you return to your own time, has anything changed?

Note that some of the combinations make no sense. But the breakdown is basically this:

Do you go as yourself?

Yes: Can you change time?

Yes: When you go back to your time, has anything changed?

Yes: Traditional time-travel. Paradoxes galore.
No: Branching timeline theory.

No: Self-consistent timeline. You were always in the past

No: Can you change time?

Yes: When you go back to the future, has anything changed?

Yes: A traditional do-over.
No: I've never actually seen this done, except in Groundhog Day loops.

No: Pretty much Hell, reliving your life over and over again. *shudder*

[CosmiComic]

I personally prefer the branching theory

[Ezyo1000]

Literally threw Thanos in there too... and are giving him his own mech? Lol

Right? Where's the logic behind it?? It's big dumb robot fun and frankly I think this is exactly what we need

[MindofShadow]

Right? Where's the logic behind it?? It's big dumb robot fun and frankly I think this is exactly what we need

I wanna know who is talking to T'challa

At this point, it could be anyone lol. if you are just gonna throw Thanos int here, you can throw anyone.

The Watcher? Galactus? Ego? one of Kangs other egos (Immortus or whatever?)?