T'Challa: The Black Panther Appreciation 2021

[CosmiComic]

None of the actors have been "over muscled caricatures"

You're correct. I was trying to point out there's a middle ground. But anyway, I don't really think the negative reaction is entirely warranted. I think Pattinson didn't like the idea of doing things like being dehydrated and stuff like that. I don't think he didn't train at all for the role.

[MindofShadow]

It did nearly irreversible harm to the franchise because unlike Thor or the X-Men, T’Challa doesn’t have anyone in the boardroom or editorial who’s a big fan and recognizes the tough break he gets. There’s no one saying “hey, my favorite character is kinda getting shit on and being deconstructed with no elevation on the horizon, let’s get someone on who can fix this”. That’s what happens when you don’t have a point man or someone in your corner to right the ship when the story gets ahead of writers and a character becomes a mischaracterized punching bag. When the only standard people have for a BP writer is “black” and “is loved on black Twitter” there’s no conceivable way to get any sense of stability or respect for what came before.

And frankly Hudlin’s direction partially opened the door to it, killing off T’Challa’s best supporting characters was dumb. Having a character he couldn’t be bothered to really develop take the mantle just because she’s a female was dumb. Having T’Challa marry a woman he had little contact with and who has a rabid fan base that hates you and the character you’ve been hired to write is dumb. Hudlin was far too ahead of his time and inexperienced in the workings of comics to understand where his creative decisions would lead. And the current state of the books is in part a reaction to the trends he started. I say this as someone who prefers his run to Priest’s lol.

You wanna know the worst part of destroying everything in 17 issues? Let's look a the list again...

- his throne: Never really clear how he got to back other than Shuri passing a dagger than magically appeared that was magically important before committing what was basically suicide. So basically Wakanda just takes T'challa's word that he is totally king now guys.

- the BP title and BP powers: got a secondary title (king of the dead) in a random F4 two issue arc

- his doras: Okoye magically just appeared again one day with no explanation.

- W'kabi: Still dead

- M'baku: still... something? seemingly alive when marvel wants to throw him in the background elsewhere. But his cuz got invented just to be murked and then his kingdom taken over by Doras oh and Queen Divine Justice aka the Queen on the jabari doesn't care either

- S'yan: Still dead, Coogler didn't even use his ass, just invented a new character instead lol

- vibranium: handwaved back lol

- Bast making any GD sense lol: makes even less sense now

- his self respect: MIA


So, T'challa lost all that shit and it was either handwaved back (great story telling), happened in random titles, or still gone.

All that shit for NOTHING.

[The Cool Thatguy]

I don't mind the vibranium being handwaved back. The sooner Doomwar is forgotten, the better

[MindofShadow]

I don't mind the vibranium being handwaved back. The sooner Doomwar is forgotten, the better

It should have been a story of T'challa bringing it back IMHO

Just like it should have been a story T'challa triumphantly getting the throne/title back.

Just like it should have been a story where T'challa goes, "yo WTF BAST?" lol

[chief12d]

You wanna know the worst part of destroying everything in 17 issues? Let's look a the list again...

- his throne: Never really clear how he got to back other than Shuri passing a dagger than magically appeared that was magically important before committing what was basically suicide. So basically Wakanda just takes T'challa's word that he is totally king now guys.

- the BP title and BP powers: got a secondary title (king of the dead) in a random F4 two issue arc

- his doras: Okoye magically just appeared again one day with no explanation.

- W'kabi: Still dead

- M'baku: still... something? seemingly alive when marvel wants to throw him in the background elsewhere. But his cuz got invented just to be murked and then his kingdom taken over by Doras oh and Queen Divine Justice aka the Queen on the jabari doesn't care either

- S'yan: Still dead, Coogler didn't even use his ass, just invented a new character instead lol

- vibranium: handwaved back lol

- Bast making any GD sense lol: makes even less sense now

- his self respect: MIA


So, T'challa lost all that shit and it was either handwaved back (great story telling), happened in random titles, or still gone.

All that shit for NOTHING.

No sense of consistency because every writer since Priest did not see their story to completion and did not care about what happened before. Major status quo changes and revelations that either amounted nothing or did more damage in the long run because other writers had different ideas. Agendas, whether they be political (like Coates) or multimedia opportunities (like Hudlin) dominating the stories. We still don’t know what KoTD actually is for Bast’s sake lol.

I guarantee we’re not gonna know the political status of the Jabarilands by the end of this arc and as has been said before, T’Challa’s male supporting cast will stay dead and underused until the MCU forces the comics to do otherwise which is unlikely. The BP franchise is a mess and a lot of it can be traced back to Hudlin and that brief but deeply damaging period between his run and Coates, who only doubled down on the fuckery. T’Challa never got his vindication after years of defeats and the current book only continued down that path. We’ll see what the relaunch has in store but outside of some more MCU influences I don’t think I’m crazy to expect more of the same.

[Ezyo1000]

T'challa literally lost....

- his throne
- the BP title
- his powers, especially after they ignored his alchemy power up
- his doras (and you HAVE to assume one of them was Okoye. she literally disappeared until she magically reappared)
- W'kabi... who might be his oldest supporting character that was still around
- Zuri
- M'baku
- S'yan
- vibranium
- Bast making any GD sense lol
- his self respect

In a span of 17 issues (6 deadliest of the species, 6 power, 5 doom war)

That is just... BRUTAL

Dark Reign has YET to end for T'Challa over a decade later.

Why is "men being muscular" such a necessity though? I'm not sure about your point on Nolan



I know. But there's a difference between a twig and the over-muscled caricatures we sometimes see in the comics. Idk exactly how Pattison will look yet, so I'll wait to see if he didn't train enough. But I'm not really losing sleep over not seeing big musclebound characters



I feel like all the main heroes should have at least one regular side character they can interact with. Unfortunately, for the reasons you've listed, BP didn't really get that. He doesn't need a "Jimmy Olsen" but at least somebody recognizable to him in that regard

I wouldn't consider Chadwick, Evans, Cavill, or any of those guys big muscle bound. But they were fit for the role they played.

[Ezyo1000]

You're correct. I was trying to point out there's a middle ground. But anyway, I don't really think the negative reaction is entirely warranted. I think Pattinson didn't like the idea of doing things like being dehydrated and stuff like that. I don't think he didn't train at all for the role.

I mean... What lol? Didn't like the idea of being dehydrated? If your going to play the role of a character who is ripped and in shape because said Character physically beats down bad guys... You should be prepared and look the part.

[Ekie]

It should have been a story of T'challa bringing it back IMHO

Just like it should have been a story T'challa triumphantly getting the throne/title back.

Just like it should have been a story where T'challa goes, "yo WTF BAST?" lol

Yep. Typical editorial hands-off approach.
Makes absolutely no sense. Its going to take a truely talented and marvel educated writer to fix all of this. Question is why doesn't editorial seem to want to hire one capable of it?

Tchalla has everything needed to become the biggest superhero in modern times except a creator that wants to see him be so.

[Ezyo1000]

No sense of consistency because every writer since Priest did not see their story to completion and did not care about what happened before. Major status quo changes and revelations that either amounted nothing or did more damage in the long run because other writers had different ideas. Agendas, whether they be political (like Coates) or multimedia opportunities (like Hudlin) dominating the stories. We still don’t know what KoTD actually is for Bast’s sake lol.

I guarantee we’re not gonna know the political status of the Jabarilands by the end of this arc and as has been said before, T’Challa’s male supporting cast will stay dead and underused until the MCU forces the comics to do otherwise which is unlikely. The BP franchise is a mess and a lot of it can be traced back to Hudlin and that brief but deeply damaging period between his run and Coates, who only doubled down on the fuckery. T’Challa never got his vindication after years of defeats and the current book only continued down that path. We’ll see what the relaunch has in store but outside of some more MCU influences I don’t think I’m crazy to expect more of the same.

Yeah I really hate to blame Hudlin, especially because of what he was going for and he was 10 steps ahead, but I gotta agree, his actions called it. Granted learning what he had in mind for Doom war and the Black Panther centric event would of likely made up for it, it's still a shame how it turned out. Especially since we don't know who's the new creative team or what's going on with that given they keep pushing back the final issue and our fan favorite who would set BP back on course was passed up again... Feels bad

[BlackClaw]

Yeah I really hate to blame Hudlin, especially because of what he was going for and he was 10 steps ahead, but I gotta agree, his actions called it. Granted learning what he had in mind for Doom war and the Black Panther centric event would of likely made up for it, it's still a shame how it turned out. Especially since we don't know who's the new creative team or what's going on with that given they keep pushing back the final issue and our fan favorite who would set BP back on course was passed up again... Feels bad

I swear being a Black Panther fan is like being a Sonic fan. Just a string of disappointments with a few bright spots here and there. Lol.

[CosmiComic]

I wouldn't consider Chadwick, Evans, Cavill, or any of those guys big muscle bound. But they were fit for the role they played.

True, they look pretty good.

I mean... What lol? Didn't like the idea of being dehydrated? If your going to play the role of a character who is ripped and in shape because said Character physically beats down bad guys... You should be prepared and look the part.

The public/media perception of "look the part" has been criticized for being incorrect, though. That may be why Pattinson didn't want to go along with it. Being bulky doesn't necessarily translate to good fighting capability either.

Yep. Typical editorial hands-off approach.
Makes absolutely no sense. Its going to take a truely talented and marvel educated writer to fix all of this. Question is why doesn't editorial seem to want to hire one capable of it?

Tchalla has everything needed to become the biggest superhero in modern times except a creator that wants to see him be so.

Editors seem to be willing to be hands on when it suits them. But being consistent here doesn't seem to be a priority

[chief12d]

I swear being a Black Panther fan is like being a Sonic fan. Just a string of disappointments with a few bright spots here and there. Lol.

Yea and I can appreciate that at least T’Challa has other books he appears in like Ultimates or Avengers. Even though those books have their problems T’Challa gets done justice there. And every now and then we get a bright spot like KIB or AOW or RotBP. While I don’t expect great things in the future book (I’m past the point of setting myself up for disappointment with this franchise) I expect some gems that remind me why T’Challa is my favorite character. A video game would be nice.

And if you think about that’s a lot more than fans of other characters get. I can’t imagine being an OG Quasar fan rn for example. T’Challa will always have a place at Marvel so there’s always the possibility we’re wrong and they do bring in that mythical writer that’ll fix the franchise and put respect on T’Challa’s name. Maybe David Walker got the call from Marvel and he’s planning his run right now lol. If not him then maybe Saladin Ahmed.

[CosmiComic]

Yea and I can appreciate that at least T’Challa has other books he appears in like Ultimates or Avengers. Even though those books have their problems T’Challa gets done justice there. And every now and then we get a bright spot like KIB or AOW or RotBP. While I don’t expect great things in the future book (I’m past the point of setting myself up for disappointment with this franchise) I expect some gems that remind me why T’Challa is my favorite character. A video game would be nice.

And if you think about that’s a lot more than fans of other characters get. I can’t imagine being an OG Quasar fan rn for example. T’Challa will always have a place at Marvel so there’s always the possibility we’re wrong and they do bring in that mythical writer that’ll fix the franchise and put respect on T’Challa’s name. Maybe David Walker got the call from Marvel and he’s planning his run right now lol. If not him then maybe Saladin Ahmed.

Maybe he needs to change it up and lead his own mini-team of heroes.

[chief12d]

Maybe he needs to change it up and lead his own mini-team of heroes.

I don’t know how I’d feel about that. Maybe as a side book that’d be nice, since we got that with Agents of Wakanda and it worked out fine despite my issues with the cast. But I don’t know if I’d want the main BP book to be T’Challa leading a bunch of other heroes.

I think he should be a solo hero ruling Wakanda and dealing with what it means to protect his people while making the entire world a safer and better place to live. I kinda want a regular run on the character, no more space adventures and mystical walkabouts, just straight espionage adventures within and outside Wakanda with a tight supporting cast of 3-4.

[CosmiComic]

I don’t know how I’d feel about that. Maybe as a side book that’d be nice, since we got that with Agents of Wakanda and it worked out fine despite my issues with the cast. But I don’t know if I’d want the main BP book to be T’Challa leading a bunch of other heroes.

I think he should be a solo hero ruling Wakanda and dealing with what it means to protect his people while making the entire world a safer and better place to live. I kinda want a regular run on the character, no more space adventures and mystical walkabouts, just straight espionage adventures within and outside Wakanda with a tight supporting cast of 3-4.

Espionage? Ok. I see what you mean. I guess I like to see him do all that stuff. Wakanda is interesting, but not the only think BP is part of, and I like seeing him interacting with other heroes a lot, although I feel that way about most heroes. I see the value of him having his own little world, but I think he can be part of both. Plus him being a leader of various heroes is pretty cool too. I think he can keep Agents of Wakanda around, although some of the team members aren't my favorite.