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  1. #5776
    Ultimate Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    I don't totally agree. T'Challa working with somebody with powers similar to his tech doesn't make him look weak. It shows he knows how to work with others.
    Not in This case it didn't. Coates literally shafted T'Challas abilities so Eden can... Play Uber

  2. #5777
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    Not in This case it didn't. Coates literally shafted T'Challas abilities so Eden can... Play Uber
    Maybe I have to go back and read that again to see if that was the case, but I didn't feel that was true then.

  3. #5778
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    It is just one of those things like... Why Manifold?

    There was never an explanation. He's just kinda there. Dude isn't even African or anything. Never been on the same team really. They have no prior interactions that I know of.

    It is like HIckman went "Avengers need a teleporter" so he used Manifold. Then Coates went, "thats great idea" and have T'challa use him too lol.
    I can only imagine that Coates wanted to give T'Challa a black best friend but didn't know or didn't care about characters T'Challa is closer with lol. Either that or he didn't have access to them. But even then, of all the black characters at Marvel Coates chose Manifold then did absolutely nothing to justify it.

    That's failing at basic storytelling 101, every character needs to have a purpose in the narrative. Manifold added nothing to the story that couldn't be performed with tech and he definitely didn't contribute to any of the major themes of this run. If Manifold's only purpose was to be a black hero under T'Challa I'd rather we have had someone update Vibraxas or just let T'Challa be lonely lol.

  4. #5779
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    Eden is dope

  5. #5780
    Incredible Member KingNomarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    It is just one of those things like... Why Manifold?

    There was never an explanation. He's just kinda there. Dude isn't even African or anything. Never been on the same team really. They have no prior interactions that I know of.

    It is like HIckman went "Avengers need a teleporter" so he used Manifold. Then Coates went, "thats great idea" and have T'challa use him too lol.
    The only thing I can think of is the interview Coates had with Evan Narcisse or someone else from io9 where he spoke about along the lines of the black characters in the MU would have thoughts and feelings of Wakanda and what it means to them. Which is why we have random black characters showing up like that chick that had maybe no dialogue, appeared in one issue and was only there to blind the Fenris Twins, something T'Challa could have easily done using the marble from Priest's run that did the exact thing that she did, why Eden is still around, and why wasted time with Thunderball and why all those black heroes showed up in the recent issue.

    Honestly if that's Coates reasoning then he did a crap job. None of that happened besides maybe for Thunderball and not Eden who been involved since issue 1. We didn't see him explore Wakanda or what he thought of the people or what they thought of him. The closes we got was him reading a book about the Originators for a panel. Coates did more for Thunderball than he did for Eden just for the rest of Marvel to ignore it cuz his next appearance after being in season 2 was as a villain again in Infamous Iron Man.

    Priest did this better when QDJ first got to Wakanda and Hudlin as well when he did it with Gabriel Jones in Flags of Our Fathers.

  6. #5781
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingNomarch View Post
    The only thing I can think of is the interview Coates had with Evan Narcisse or someone else from io9 where he spoke about along the lines of the black characters in the MU would have thoughts and feelings of Wakanda and what it means to them. Which is why we have random black characters showing up like that chick that had maybe no dialogue, appeared in one issue and was only there to blind the Fenris Twins, something T'Challa could have easily done using the marble from Priest's run that did the exact thing that she did, why Eden is still around, and why wasted time with Thunderball and why all those black heroes showed up in the recent issue.

    Honestly if that's Coates reasoning then he did a crap job. None of that happened besides maybe for Thunderball and not Eden who been involved since issue 1. We didn't see him explore Wakanda or what he thought of the people or what they thought of him. The closes we got was him reading a book about the Originators for a panel. Coates did more for Thunderball than he did for Eden just for the rest of Marvel to ignore it cuz his next appearance after being in season 2 was as a villain again in Infamous Iron Man.

    Priest did this better when QDJ first got to Wakanda and Hudlin as well when he did it with Gabriel Jones in Flags of Our Fathers.
    That girl who blinded the Fenris Twins is Asha and she's Wakandan, probably a mutant or some kind of mutate. But I see your point overall and it make sense. I don't have an issue with non-Wakandan black heroes coming to Wakanda, in fact I encourage it. To this day I still want Brother Voodoo to play a secondary role in the main title (without becoming a major supporting character). And of course I'm always down for more Luke Cage team-ups. But like you said, if we don't actually see them reckon with what it means to be in Wakanda and their relationship to T'Challa it all reads as empty pandering.

    Characters need to serve a purpose in the story other than being black, non-straight, or a woman. Black superheroes showing solidarity with T'Challa and Wakanda means nothing if they don't have a compelling story to anchor the interaction. Coates at least tried with Thunderball but there's no amount of work with the character that can be done to make him interesting lol. And the Crew was just poorly written in most of their appearances.

  7. #5782

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    You COULD justify Manifold as the highest-profile POC Avenger (other than T'Challa himself) during the Hickman era.

    I STILL can't figure out what was the point of frigging THUNDERBALL. Especially since, with Marvel editorial's usual diligence, he was running around doing villain things at the same time he was supposedly a Wakandan "slave".

  8. #5783
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigiCom View Post
    You COULD justify Manifold as the highest-profile POC Avenger (other than T'Challa himself) during the Hickman era.

    I STILL can't figure out what was the point of frigging THUNDERBALL. Especially since, with Marvel editorial's usual diligence, he was running around doing villain things at the same time he was supposedly a Wakandan "slave".
    I can see maybe why they'd want to expand on a villain who's been around for so long.

  9. #5784
    Ultimate Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Coates just didn't care about anything other than his agenda. It's funny how he wasted issue after issue not moving the plot but wouldn't at the very least give reasons for why people were there. T'Challa didn't need a protege, he needed to remind the world and the readers why Wakanda is the biggest badasses on the planet and why T'Challa is not to be frakked with

  10. #5785
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dariel81 View Post
    Eden is dope
    Eden could be dope.

    How Coates used him was not

    Quote Originally Posted by KingNomarch View Post
    The only thing I can think of is the interview Coates had with Evan Narcisse or someone else from io9 where he spoke about along the lines of the black characters in the MU would have thoughts and feelings of Wakanda and what it means to them. Which is why we have random black characters showing up like that chick that had maybe no dialogue, appeared in one issue and was only there to blind the Fenris Twins, something T'Challa could have easily done using the marble from Priest's run that did the exact thing that she did, why Eden is still around, and why wasted time with Thunderball and why all those black heroes showed up in the recent issue.

    Honestly if that's Coates reasoning then he did a crap job. None of that happened besides maybe for Thunderball and not Eden who been involved since issue 1. We didn't see him explore Wakanda or what he thought of the people or what they thought of him. The closes we got was him reading a book about the Originators for a panel. Coates did more for Thunderball than he did for Eden just for the rest of Marvel to ignore it cuz his next appearance after being in season 2 was as a villain again in Infamous Iron Man.

    Priest did this better when QDJ first got to Wakanda and Hudlin as well when he did it with Gabriel Jones in Flags of Our Fathers.
    Which is hilarious... because the Wakanda presented by Coates would not be the "beacon of black people" or whatever. It was just another african country in chaos.

    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    But like you said, if we don't actually see them reckon with what it means to be in Wakanda and their relationship to T'Challa it all reads as empty pandering.
    Which is hilarious... he empty pandered for... Thunderball. And Eden. Like... at least Storm is popular-ish lol.

    Season 2 was basically "lets throw names in!" Here is Asha! Here is Vibraxas! Here is QDJ! Here is Kasper! Please black panther fans, keep buying! I did research! Oh here is Fenri twins and Adversary adn Storm an is going to save the day X Fans! Stay!!!!! movie fans, Okoye is back movie fans!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by DigiCom View Post
    You COULD justify Manifold as the highest-profile POC Avenger (other than T'Challa himself) during the Hickman era.

    I STILL can't figure out what was the point of frigging THUNDERBALL. Especially since, with Marvel editorial's usual diligence, he was running around doing villain things at the same time he was supposedly a Wakandan "slave".
    hey hey hey, Falcon was on the Hickman Avengers! I think he called some alien bird like things once lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    I can see maybe why they'd want to expand on a villain who's been around for so long.
    It is not "they" it was "he." Outside of Coates, Thunderball was still doing villain shit.

    Plus, his sole contribution was... doing science stuff. So T'challa could "delegate." We wasted page after page integrating Thunderball of all people for something T'challa or Shuri or some random redshirt could have done.
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  11. #5786
    Ultimate Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigiCom View Post
    You COULD justify Manifold as the highest-profile POC Avenger (other than T'Challa himself) during the Hickman era.

    I STILL can't figure out what was the point of frigging THUNDERBALL. Especially since, with Marvel editorial's usual diligence, he was running around doing villain things at the same time he was supposedly a Wakandan "slave".
    It was just more sh*t to fling T'Challas way. Showing a Black Man on chains saying he is a slave to Wakanda... Stupid stupid garbage. And people Wonder why BP fans hate Coates run so much

  12. #5787
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    Eden could be dope.

    How Coates used him was not
    Maybe someday he will

    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    It is not "they" it was "he." Outside of Coates, Thunderball was still doing villain shit.

    Plus, his sole contribution was... doing science stuff. So T'challa could "delegate." We wasted page after page integrating Thunderball of all people for something T'challa or Shuri or some random redshirt could have done.
    He should've checked to see if his story was conflicting with others

  13. #5788
    Ultimate Life Form BlackClaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    He should've checked to see if his story was conflicting with others
    I’m so glad that none of the bs from Coates has spilled over into the MU proper. Hopefully John Ridley can pick up the slack if he is indeed taking over.
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  14. #5789
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cville View Post
    They canceled Spectacular Spiderman cartoon because of this. I'm still upset. Lol.
    No they didn't. Avengers Earths Mightiest Heroes was, they wanted an MCU synergy direction, which we got in Avengers Assemble (a cartoon which shares it's name with the first movie in the UK). Spectacular Spider-Man was cancelled because Disney bought Marvel and wanted control of the character, not because they wanted a new creative direction. So Sony surrendered the half hour animation rights in order to keep the movie rights, which led to the launch of Ultimate Spider-Man. Probably the wrong choice for Sony, as Spidey ended up rebooting into the MCU anyway.
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  15. #5790
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackClaw View Post
    I’m so glad that none of the bs from Coates has spilled over into the MU proper. Hopefully John Ridley can pick up the slack if he is indeed taking over.
    Haha, I meant to say, Coates should've made sure his story didn't create plot holes within the MU

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