T'Challa: The Black Panther Appreciation 2021

[Ezyo1000]

But there is only so much you can do. I dont think there is a way to make them big supporting characters and keep a mystique about them.

It's like in anime when groups are super hyped up in the beginning for how strong they are. Then once you get to know them individually they seem weaker than you imagined.

I remember when Shredders elite ninja showed up in the 2000s cartoon. They were nearly unbeatable. But they become fodder in later seasons. If support characters keep being used over and over again, eventually the cracks start working their way through.

The problem is that it's such a common trope in anime that they do it to themselves and Frankly it's lazy.

Generally the hype the Character up as a badass, have them Walk all over obviously weaker Characters, then have them lose to a main villain to inspire the protagonist however the lost is EMBARRASSING considering how strong the character is supposed to be. The only recent anime that didn't completely do the strongest character dirty that I can remember was BHA where the strongest actually WON the fight but even that had a drawback.

The key is to give bits and pieces about the order, samples here and there. You don't go into a full deep dive of Their daily life like Gay did for the DM (effectively making them look like garbage) but rather you seen the mission side and sometimes get information on how the order operates

That is fair.

I personally don't think either the Doras or HZ should be around much. Keep the head of each order around T'challa as needed but as far as "full scale mobilizations" it should be extremely limited.

There is a def middle ground between what Priest did vs what Mayberry/Hudlin (Dora army), Hickman (HZ army), and Coates (MA army) did IMHO

They should have kept them pseudo elite so when they do get beat by whatever enemy... it means something. They are jsut foot soldiers now outside Okoye.

The best appearance by the HZ in a decade was when they showed up and almost wiped out the MA in 2 pages lol.

Actually I would argue Hudlin, after priest, used the DM the best. They only showed up sparingly and the times they do they saved Ramonda, and the best the isht out of Widow. Most of their appearances they looked good. The HZ unfortunately are the ones whom have only gotten a handful of good showings of the decades but otherwise are fodder... Hard. Outside of almost annihilating the MA in Coates, the last time before they was in tro Where we see them murking the atlanteans... I'm pretty sure those are their only good showings.

That being Said there are ways to keep the mystique while keeping them badass and competent. The best ways are similar to how Hudlin used the DM to beat widow. Which is to show just enough to get a grasp or how dangerous they are then move on... OR create a situation were you have fodder that is created just for them to defeat and hyped just enough that it gives them a good fest over them. Aim, the hand, etc. Perfect groups for the HZ and DM to take on.

[MindofShadow]

[B]



Actually I would argue Hudlin, after priest, used the DM the best.

I never know who to blame for the Doras being turned into Midnight Angels and fodder for doom bots lol

IDK if it was Mayberry or Hudlin.

[Ezyo1000]

I never know who to blame for the Doras being turned into Midnight Angels and fodder for doom bots lol

IDK if it was Mayberry or Hudlin.

It was mayberry. BP S5 was the last time Hudlin was on the book and transferred out. Doom war was entirely mayberry and that's when we got the Dora army and MA.

[Ezyo1000]

You can't give the Dora as a group that mystique, but by focusing on one or two (e.g. Okoye) you can at least make them competent.

So long as they are faceless & nameless, they aren't characters but set dressing.

The same could be said of the HZ. I could easily see them filling the sort of niche Agents of Wakanda was SUPPOSED to fill, before it became "C-List Avengers Spotlight".

Consider White Wolf/Kasper as the Nick Fury of the piece. Include Akili as his second-in-command/foil (jealous because he didn't get the slot? Annoyed at Kasper's more laid-back approach and lack of respect for traditions? It almost writes itself!). I might even include deep cuts like Omoro as his administrative assistant, Ogun & Kunta as senior staff, and maybe even Taku as their "Q".

Honestly I'm not going to lie, I do want a HZ book, but written like Bryan hills kilmonger only actually good story, plot and competency wise.

I would make it a MK presents style though where it's a little bit darker then the usual, hell of almost say make it like kilmonger on terms of maturity, as they are essentially a spec ops group as well as spies. If Kasper was the lead he would see just what being a HZ entails and the tough stuff they gotta do (they are always saving lives they don't kill Innocents or anything like that) but he gets a whiff of how truly evil the world can be outside of NY can be and doesn't like Akilis (or W'kabi for his new position ) approach. Kinda a distant cold demeanor towards everyone and wants to change that.

The book goes through some things, such as SOME of the training they are put through, mental physical, and emotional. The weapons they used and some of the tech and strategies. Enough to keep you interested without diving full-blown into every little detail that takes away the mystique.

There's mention of the other hz groups but we never seen them only the cast of 5 on this group (W'kabi as the head of the HZ and intelligence division, Akili, Kasper, "Backhand" B'Bari, and the female HZ from Conan) Which each a specific role and showing how tightly nit the group must be in order to succeed. I think it would be really good for them and flesh them out a bit more to be respected instead of used as a fodder army

[Mike_Murdock]

I should add that I've changed my mind about recasting. When the grief was fresh, I was more against it, but now I think, if they can find the right actor (and I don't think John David Washington is it, sorry Denzel), I'm fine with recasting. He'll have big shoes to fill, but a good actor would relish that challenge, not run from it.

I've held that this sentiment will be true for most people, which is why I'm hoping that the movie won't kill off the chance of a re-cast by killing off the character. It's OK to not feature him without the need for the character to be dead. I also don't think it honors the actor or allows healing from the grief of his death by having the character portrayed by the actor die on screen.

I would make the Dora a domestic group and the HZ the foreign operatives. Both groups would be open to men and women.

I would argue that this works well and can be consistent with what Priest did with the HZ. I think the key main difference between the groups is the Dora Milaje have been closer to a royal guard, which can work almost as a military police. The Hatut Zeraze were traditionally a secret police. It fits with my argument that, under Priest, Wakanda was a kind of messed up place, but the point is the HZ were the KGB. They spied on their citizens, they tortured them, etc. However, after T'Challa came to the throne, that stuff went away. But it doesn't make sense to use them as a national defense force. They're still spies to me so they should be focused on the same stuff, but abroad.

I would suggest that the most logical division would be this:
A local police force - not necessarily micromanaged by the government or the crown
The Wakandan military - under the new dynamic, it would presumably answer to the Wakandan Parliament and the head of state (T'Challa)
The Dora Milaje - Elite force for domestic security. Sort of analogous to the Italian Carabinieri but a combination of that, Navy Seals, and the Secret Service. They answer directly to the crown because their primary role is royal security. I'm also fine with making their role counter-espionage, although there's obvious avenues of abuse if the counter-espionage group is not subject to democratic supervision.
The Hatut Zeraze - Foreign intelligence. I would suggest that they answer to Parliament and head of state rather than the crown alone given their past abuses.

But I never liked the idea of the HZ just being a military force like Coates uses them. I think the only point was to make them look like T'Challa and, more importantly, give a distinct male army force because the women were in rebellion.

[Ezyo1000]

Alright I'm going to throw in my break down of the Wakandan force.

Wakandan Grand Army (WGA)
Wakandan Royal Air guard (WRAG)
Wakandan Defense Legion (WDL)

Wakandan Grand Army:
Sheathes- primary Infrantry combat force (light class).
Wakandan battle carrier- medium class (as seen in Infinity war).
S'yan class prowlers- (heavy class).
Hand of Bast- (super heavy class).
Bashenga class Panthertron- (as teased in AoW) super heavy class.

Wakandan Royal Air guard:
Talons- (as seen in BP solo) light class dog fighters.
Dragon flyers- (primary combat unit) medium class assault fighter.
Wakandan quinjet fighter- (as seen by stelfreeze design) heavy class assault carrier/ fighter.
C. Boseman class (super heavy) assault carrier- Carries 15 dragons fliers, 5 quinjet, 5 medium infrantry vehicle carriers, 1 and 300 heavily armed infantry forces.
Nyami class (super heavy class) Mothership- Carriers 5 talons 5 dragon flyers, 3 medium infrantry vehicle carriers, and 150 heavily armed infantry THE assault destroyer.

Wakandan Defense Legion
Royal city guard-(robed men presented by stelfreeze serve as police force) light class.
Dora Milaje- elite fighting group, Military Police/ marines. Protector of the Royal family and domestic affairs medium class.
Haute Zeraze- elite fighting group spies/ Spec ops. Protectors of Wakandan foreign affairs medium class.

This is my breakdown each class role and what division they fall into.

[Dariel81]

I Just wanna kickass Tchalla with a good to great story behind him

[Huntsman Spider]

I Just wanna kickass Tchalla with a good to great story behind him

In that case, I am sincerely hoping John Ridley can deliver when he starts off.

[Vanguard]

I Just wanna kickass Tchalla with a good to great story behind him

Me too. And I’m diggin my new Avatar.

[Klaue's Mixtape]

Im going to be disappointed if Coogler goes the hip hop route AGAIN with the soundtrack. Dont get me wrong I love Kendrick, but outside of a few songs that album just felt off for that type of movie. It did deserve its oscar nom for best song though.

I really hope he lets Michael Kiwanuka do the album.

[CosmiComic]

Im going to be disappointed if Coogler goes the hip hop route AGAIN with the soundtrack. Dont get me wrong I love Kendrick, but outside of a few songs that album just felt off for that type of movie. It did deserve its oscar nom for best song though.

I really hope he lets Michael Kiwanuka do the album.

Wow, that's not a name I expected. But it could work.

[MindofShadow]

I Just wanna kickass Tchalla with a good to great story behind him

I'd settle for mediocre lol

I mean, even just t'challa being in the story would be nice lol.

How many issues did we get int he lst 5 years where the Black Panther wasn't even in the book.

Just got another preview, again, where T'challa is in one splash page lol.

So yeah... give me Aaron's T'challa in a story that is passable and I won't complain at all lol

[Ezyo1000]

I'd settle for mediocre lol

I mean, even just t'challa being in the story would be nice lol.

How many issues did we get int he lst 5 years where the Black Panther wasn't even in the book.

Just got another preview, again, where T'challa is in one splash page lol.

So yeah... give me Aaron's T'challa in a story that is passable and I won't complain at all lol

It's really simple. Legendary runs don't happen by the writers being try hards and attempting to "Change the BP world as we know it" they just tell great stories with excellent Character development and and make the title Character Central and lift them up, the rest happens naturally. Tryhards like Coates and gay give us the garbage we had for the last 5 years. It's why Narcisse was praised so much for his contribution from fans here, same with Redjack on his KIB one shot.

[Cville]

It's really simple. Legendary runs don't happen by the writers being try hards and attempting to "Change the BP world as we know it" they just tell great stories with excellent Character development and and make the title Character Central and lift them up, the rest happens naturally. Tryhards like Coates and gay give us the garbage we had for the last 5 years. It's why Narcisse was praised so much for his contribution from fans here, same with Redjack on his KIB one shot.

I would say the Priest and Hudlin changed the worlds. The difference is focused on building up the characters and not give lectures to the reader. At least not in an "in your face" way.

[Klaue's Mixtape]

Fandom
@getFANDOM
Sending birthday wishes to Ryan Coogler Birthday cake

And talking of... what are your 3️⃣ wishes for 'Wakanda Forever'?

https://twitter.com/getFANDOM/status...96192842997761
What are 3 things you guys hope to see (for those that wont watch it. What are you at least hoping to hear)