T'Challa: The Black Panther Appreciation 2021

[Devaishwarya]

*ducks in...It's very quiet on the "Storm front" ...ducks out*

[Toonstrack]

Just so you know (as for any one else following this thread) this reaction isn't based on some "wE hAtE cOaTeS nO mAtTeR wHaT iS iN tHe boOk!" This story from day one 5 years ago isn't good from strictly a storytelling standpoint, ignoring the fact that it's a BP book and just looking at what's on the pages form a fiction standpoint. The pacIng is bad, the Characters have zero depth/ conflicting motivations. On one season Characters change on a dime their entire beliefs based on nonsensical reasoning. Characters disappear and/or suddenly appear and are absolutely NEEDED to defeat the big bad with no reasoning or even for shadowing. We literally have all the Black heroes showing up to fight for Wakanda and T'Challa hasn't even interacted with 95% of them in this series or even at all publication history.

That's why you see the reactions here. If there is one thing is BP fans are good at, it's giving credit where credit is due and to criticize BS. No BP writer is above criticism and no BP writer gets a pass to write garbage and have it worshiped.

We give credit where credit is due, hell at the start of S3 alot of is gave Coates credit for the first few issues because T'Challa was actually DOING something and was more capable then he ever was prior. Then Coates fell back onto his usual beats and there is go.

Eh, I dont entirely agree with the assessment. And that's fine. Thats ok. I have noted lacing issues in the parts I read. But I've also very much liked a lot of what was done here. It isnr perfect but there has been ambition there.

But I respect everyone's opinions on it. I haven't even read the entirety of the run yet, but what i have read ive largely enjoyed

[Toonstrack]

@Digi
Glad my gif is gaining more power by the day lol




No... He didn't. That was Hickman making T'Challa a main Character in one of the biggest Marvel events on recent history. That's what put T'Challa in the lime light on the comics side.

Coates didn't even have T'Challa interacting with the greater MU at all, that was other writers, yet now we gonna act like that was Coates doing??? Really???

This is what we have been saying. Coates Seems to just suck up all credit and praise for things he didn't do. It's crazy. He gets credit for stelfreeze aesthetics and force push, gets credit for Narcisse Rise story, and apparently now is getting praise for raising T'Challas profile in the comics when they start before he was even penning the solo

Its not just tchalla though. We are seeing Dora all over the place. Shuri getting a solo mini. Okoye teaming up with freaking iron fist, completely on her own.

A lot of that is due to the expansion of the world of wakanda and the greater focus on it that was done in both the movies and the BP run. Especially the greater focus on the supporting characters.

Sure it was Hickman who gave him the big spotlight in secret wars but during this run we've seen multiple new villains and allies, multiple new landscapes and scales happen. Like I said just look at that cover art from Ross. All of that has played a major role and will continue too. Wakanda is now the most prominent fictional nation in the MU, aside from Krakoa that is but that was always going to be bigger. Wakanda branches out literslly all over the place now

[chief12d]

*ducks in...It's very quiet on the "Storm front" ...ducks out*

You ain’t **** lol.

On that note though, Coates basically said what everyone here’s been saying since October of last year. Storm and T’Challa are friends with benefits and as of Marauders #13 they’re not friends anymore lol. He was fully aware of what the X-office was planning and I suspect that because his story chronologically takes place before theirs nobody’s direction was really harmed.

He even says they can date other people lol, the romance is dead as of last year and with Nakia in the Djalia it’s becoming increasingly likely that this romance Ridley’s been hinting at is a new character (unless it’s not a love interest for T’Challa of course). So yea Storm is probably not gonna be a big player moving forward.

[Toonstrack]

Haaa haaaaa thanks I need a good laugh

Im certain you can offer more to the discussion than this. I didnt come to troll, and I'm not antagonizing. Be constructive.

This thread is highly critical of the run but i wouldn't call it toxic. Theres no need to make it so.

[chief12d]

Its not just tchalla though. We are seeing Dora all over the place. Shuri getting a solo mini. Okoye teaming up with freaking iron fist, completely on her own.

A lot of that is due to the expansion of the world of wakanda and the greater focus on it that was done in both the movies and the BP run. Especially the greater focus on the supporting characters.

Sure it was Hickman who gave him the big spotlight in secret wars but during this run we've seen multiple new villains and allies, multiple new landscapes and scales happen. Like I said just look at that cover art from Ross. All of that has played a major role and will continue too. Wakanda is now the most prominent fictional nation in the MU, aside from Krakoa that is but that was always going to be bigger. Wakanda branches out literslly all over the place now

The primary Dora of the Coates run was Ayo and Aneka, the movies pushed Okoye and that’s who was the lead of the Dora miniseries, leading the Agents of Wakanda, and appearing in Iron Fist. Not the Midnight Angels. Since you haven’t finished the books I’m just gonna say that Coates is not responsible for Okoye being as prominent as she is now based off her reintroduction in the solo. In fact you’ll notice that Okoye was appearing in other books before she got brought back into the solo.

Shuri’s book took the Coates status quo of T’Challa being missing but is notorious for essentially turning her into the MCU incarnation in its characterization and tone. And such a book only came after the movie elevated her to the most prominent mind in the MCU, they could’ve put anyone on the main BP solo and Shuri would’ve gotten a book. It’s customary for side characters and secondary IPs in the MCU to get comics in the lead up and aftermath of movie success. And the Shuri book had no wider relevance to the wider MU other than guest features that have not led to anything outside that book.

Cover art from Alex Ross means nothing lol. It’s a retrospective on the Coates era which we can both agree was a substantial break from prior eras. Hence all the new elements (Griot Shuri, MA armor, Storm). But think long and hard about the timeline of T’Challa and his world’s usage in the MCU and the actual story elements that Coates introduced which had relevance outside his book. If you think honestly you’ll recognize he had 0 influence on anything outside his world and that most of the elevation the character experienced is a result of the MCU both in terms of who got pushed and what the push consisted of.

[Ezyo1000]

You think that's bad? Look at who wrote that interview!

Dude I couldn't even get through the article. It's ridiculous. Like, Coates loves to talk but say nonsense. I had to lol multiple times throughout it. Like the line where he said he didn't want to invent Characters yet that pretty much all he did. Tetu, zenzi, Ayo, Hodari Aneka, Akili, Changaroo... 7 Characters not including the empire people. Like if you didn't read the comics and just went off the interview you would think alot different of him. Like MoS said, he can't interview well lol. Shame on Evan

[Cville]

Its not just tchalla though. We are seeing Dora all over the place. Shuri getting a solo mini. Okoye teaming up with freaking iron fist, completely on her own.

A lot of that is due to the expansion of the world of wakanda and the greater focus on it that was done in both the movies and the BP run. Especially the greater focus on the supporting characters.

Sure it was Hickman who gave him the big spotlight in secret wars but during this run we've seen multiple new villains and allies, multiple new landscapes and scales happen. Like I said just look at that cover art from Ross. All of that has played a major role and will continue too. Wakanda is now the most prominent fictional nation in the MU, aside from Krakoa that is but that was always going to be bigger. Wakanda branches out literslly all over the place now

That's all the movie. Okoye wasn't even in Coates' run until she got popular from the movie.

[DigiCom]

Its not just tchalla though. We are seeing Dora all over the place. Shuri getting a solo mini. Okoye teaming up with freaking iron fist, completely on her own.

You mean the character Coates gave such a high-profile to she didn't even EXIST in the book until a year after the movie?

And the Shuri series... written by one of his friends. Which was solicited as follows:

The world fell in love with her in the movie. Now, the Black Panther’s techno-genius sister launches her own adventures — written by best-selling Afrofuturist author Nnedi Okorafor and drawn by Eisner-nominated artist Leonardo Romero! The Black Panther has disappeared, lost on a mission in space. And in his absence, everyone’s looking at the next in line for the throne. But Shuri is happiest in a lab, surrounded by gadgets of her own creation. She’d rather be testing gauntlets than throwing them. But a nation without a leader is a vulnerable one — and Shuri may have to choose between Wakanda’s welfare and her own.

Oh yeah. That sounds like they LOVED Coates' take...

[Ezyo1000]

Its not just tchalla though. We are seeing Dora all over the place. Shuri getting a solo mini. Okoye teaming up with freaking iron fist, completely on her own.

A lot of that is due to the expansion of the world of wakanda and the greater focus on it that was done in both the movies and the BP run. Especially the greater focus on the supporting characters.

Sure it was Hickman who gave him the big spotlight in secret wars but during this run we've seen multiple new villains and allies, multiple new landscapes and scales happen. Like I said just look at that cover art from Ross. All of that has played a major role and will continue too. Wakanda is now the most prominent fictional nation in the MU, aside from Krakoa that is but that was always going to be bigger. Wakanda branches out literslly all over the place now

Oh no no no. Coates does NOT get credit for those either. Okotabd Shuri Popping up and Shuri getting a spin of are both DIRECTLY tied to the MCU. Okoye showed up on coates book out of the blue, completely at random. That was due to the MCU. The Ayo and Aneka coming back to T'Challa and throwing the Wakanda forever sign was due to the MCU. Shuri getting a spin offer? Guess what? MCU, hence why the spin off had her in as a tech nerd and she was acting more like a teenager than Coates super serious super boring version.

Coates gets credit for creating new landscapes sure, and I'll credit him for his Tetu and Zenzi who had potential before he ruined that. But let's be real here and stop with the revisionist history

[Vanguard]

spoilers:

Well I was happy to see TChalla use his shockwave move and throw Killmonger around a little. But overall I agree with most of what was said here. Put someone who cares about the character on the book.

end of spoilers

[Ekie]

I mean, on the comics landscape he kinda did though. BP is a bigger player in the comics now than he ever was prior. In terms of how much of the MU is actively influenced by wakanda stuff whereas before a lot of the time it was just kinda there, or tied to Avengers only stuff. Wakanda wasn't affecting stuff of galactic marvel before and now it is. The success of this comic played a large role in that. Obviously the movies have done a lot of it too but I dont think that claim is off the mark in any way.

Does Jonathan Hickman run not exist?

[Toonstrack]

The primary Dora of the Coates run was Ayo and Aneka, the movies pushed Okoye and that’s who was the lead of the Dora miniseries, leading the Agents of Wakanda, and appearing in Iron Fist. Not the Midnight Angels. Since you haven’t finished the books I’m just gonna say that Coates is not responsible for Okoye being as prominent as she is now based off her reintroduction in the solo. In fact you’ll notice that Okoye was appearing in other books before she got brought back into the solo.

Shuri’s book took the Coates status quo of T’Challa being missing but is notorious for essentially turning her into the MCU incarnation in its characterization and tone. And such a book only came after the movie elevated her to the most prominent mind in the MCU, they could’ve put anyone on the main BP solo and Shuri would’ve gotten a book. It’s customary for side characters and secondary IPs in the MCU to get comics in the lead up and aftermath of movie success. And the Shuri book had no wider relevance to the wider MU other than guest features that have not led to anything outside that book.

Cover art from Alex Ross means nothing lol. It’s a retrospective on the Coates era which we can both agree was a substantial break from prior eras. Hence all the new elements (Griot Shuri, MA armor, Storm). But think long and hard about the timeline of T’Challa and his world’s usage in the MCU and the actual story elements that Coates introduced which had relevance outside his book. If you think honestly you’ll recognize he had 0 influence on anything outside his world and that most of the elevation the character experienced is a result of the MCU both in terms of who got pushed and what the push consisted of.

The MCU doesn't guarantee character pushes lol. Scalret Witch just got an entire TV show and is nowhere to be seen in the comics. Falcon and Winter Soldier both are floating between other peoples books after getting their own show. Ant Man, has had what 5 film appearances? No consistent book.

I'm speaking strictly on the comics side here. Since this very run has started, or around the same time we've seen Captain America replaced by Sam Wilson, then steve was turned into a nazi. Iron man has been killed at least twice and gone through what 3 different writers? Thor got stripped of his powers and replaced by Jane foster for like 2 years. Captain Marvel has had a run that has affected very little if any of the larger MU, also tossed between a couple writers. Black Widow was killed off; brought back and has been under like 3 or 4 writers the whole time. Seems to have finally found decent footing under Thomspon Hawkeye has had multiple minis, nothing solid. Hulk up until Ewing got to him was all over the place, dead not dead sorta dead etc. Wanda is in limbo. Scott is in limbo. Hank is a villain, in limbo. Quicksilver... lol.

Compare those main avenger characters whove been rocking the films for a lot longer than BP was to what we got. Id say relatively TChalla got off pretty easy.

His supporting cast is all over the place. An X book falls out Wakanda specifically. Wakanda is getting solo tie in books for events. The whole nations arsthetic is much more solidly established now giving future writers things to built off of. Wakanda now has stories that can be told entirely in the far reaches of space. The lore of the nation has been given much more solid groundwork of the rather unchanging nature, with past Black Panthers and ancestors and stuff.

I think all that stuff matters. But time will tell if marvel agrees.

[Cville]

You ain’t **** lol.

On that note though, Coates basically said what everyone here’s been saying since October of last year. Storm and T’Challa are friends with benefits and as of Marauders #13 they’re not friends anymore lol. He was fully aware of what the X-office was planning and I suspect that because his story chronologically takes place before theirs nobody’s direction was really harmed.

He even says they can date other people lol, the romance is dead as of last year and with Nakia in the Djalia it’s becoming increasingly likely that this romance Ridley’s been hinting at is a new character (unless it’s not a love interest for T’Challa of course). So yea Storm is probably not gonna be a big player moving forward.

I wasn't even going to read the article until you said this, then I had to go see. Lol

Let me leave it here for everyone. Cause when that issue came out people just denied the truth. Lol.

Q:
Continuing on Storm, you inherited the T’Challa/Ororo relationship in a weird place. They were kind of divorced or estranged, or both, but you leave them in a place where they’re not formally together but still very much in love, it seems.

A:
I think marriage is overrated [as an end goal for fictional relationships]. T’Challa can have a girlfriend. Ororo can have a boyfriend. It’s fine. She has a whole other life. He has a whole other life. It just seemed like the arrangement that would work best, given who they were.

[Ekie]

Ah...so they are just in an entanglement....