T'Challa: The Black Panther Appreciation 2021

[Ezyo1000]

I’d advocate for a more ruthless T’Challa in the vein of Priest and Hudlin but I don’t necessarily NEED that from T’Challa. I don’t prefer it, but MCU T’Challa is an upgrade over what Coates has given us so I’d accept it. I’m with MOS. Give me the bare minimum and I’ll be happy lol.

I don’t need every run to completely recontextualize Black Panther as a character and franchise, I’m fine with the occasional gen like KIB every now and then but I don’t need Ridley to be Priest to be satisfied. I’m too burned out to expect that much, I just want a story that shows a character I like in a positive light and has something cool to put on display.




I kinda disagree with this take. Wakanda is plenty interesting and it’s populated by cool side characters that with enough push can sustain a fanbase and perhaps even a book independent of T’Challa (speaking purely on the comics). I just don’t think that attempts to push the backdrop of Wakanda should come at the expense of T’Challa in his own book.

I’ve been saying for awhile now Shuri should be out front with the current generation of legacy characters and being shown outside the bubble of the BP books. She should be appearing in the main BP title in a supporting role, getting a mini every 1-2 years, and be a primary character in Champions/Young Avengers. Just like Kate Bishop or Ms. Marvel. She’s that valuable a concept.

What I don’t want is for the Black Panther book to get turned into a stealth solo for her because the writer is more interested in her than they are T’Challa. Shuri is part of the world of Wakanda but that’s not who the vast majority of fans are picking the BP book up for. Same goes for the Dora, should be built up in minis and team appearances while playing support in the main title. That’s how you build a franchise, give strong limited showcases to the world/sidekicks in the home title but give them space to shine in their own storylines/teams. Thats basically how most of the major Bat-family members got to where they are now.

Marvel so desperately wants Black Panther to be their Batman that rather than organically build out the world of Wakanda they turned the main book into an ensemble to speed up the process. Sales crashed and burned and it led to controversy among fans (even if “critics” and literary types who clearly have an agenda to exalt everything Coates does loved it). Likewise it didn’t really elevate the characters involved outside maybe the MA, who are back to wallpaper status anyway with Okoye’s rightful return.

Who here expects to see Changamire as a driving figure past this era? He didn’t deserve or need as much panel time as he got, which is something that can be said about several characters in Coates’ run. The key word for this next era has to be “consolidate”. We don’t need 20+ characters in 6 issues covering 4-5 different perspectives simultaneously.

I may of been a bit harsh

I don't mean Wakanda can't be interesting or operate outside of of the main BP book, there's a lot to mine and explore of done properly, however, it isn't something that has been the focus of the franchise ever. Not to say you can't build it up, but I'm specifically talking about those who seem to think/pretend that Wakanda is Black star wars when it clearly isn't. My ideal idea would be: Black Panther main title, Shuri title, and an Agent's of Wakanda title that actually focuses on the HZ. The DM can feature in it as well.

That's how I would build it. Which AoW also serves as a book to explore the WK Military.

Marvel is frakking up by throwing people on the BP franchise who have half baked stories, don't give a frak about the characters, and frankly lack the skills to write the books. That's a recipe for failure.

[Ezyo1000]

The book is called THE BLACK PANTHER.

That should give folks a decent idea on what it should be about.

The first thing the character did on his FIRST appearance was to beat the entire Fantastic Four, on his own, just to see if they were worthy of an audience.

Start there.

THIS. Priest had T'Challa at the start of his run Punch the Frak out the devil and rip his heart out lol. Hudlin had T'Challa at the start of his run impale klaw on a spear and tell america to GTFO of Wakanda... Why are we settling for anything less then awesome isht like this?

[MindofShadow]

I kinda disagree with this take. Wakanda is plenty interesting and it’s populated by cool side characters that with enough push can sustain a fanbase and perhaps even a book independent of T’Challa (speaking purely on the comics). I just don’t think that attempts to push the backdrop of Wakanda should come at the expense of T’Challa in his own book.

Wakanda exists to prop up and support T'challa, the Black Panther, the character.

Coates and others act like T'challa exists to prop up and support Wakanda

[MindofShadow]

There are two of them. I think Coates got a little confused (which is amusing, because he's the one that came up with one of them).

The Spear of Bashenga dates to the Priest era, although Zuri used it the most often:



The energy/spirit spear showed up in issue #11 of Coates first run

Dont' forget the dagger hickman invented and then Coates folded into the plot somehow with the spear lol?

Really bizarre. Almost like Coates was confsued the dagger =/= spear.

[Askia]

I'm excited to see what Ridley does with Black Panther as his story telling has been solid. The one thing I'm concerned about is he will be afraid to make the character powerful.

Looking at his work on the Second Son series: spoilers:

in the penultimate chapter he made Jace look like a chump getting wooped up by a scrub cannon fodder and needed to be saved.... yet dude is going to rock the Batman costume in the next series.

end of spoilers

I'm a bit concerned of another weak T'Challa, and I won't be surprised if Shuri needs to save him in the first arc.

Regarding the Wakanda convo;

I think Wakanda is dope (although some people need to chill on drinking too much of the Wakanda kool-aid) and should be explored through spin-offs. Granted, that would take creating interesting characters that could lead a book, and introducing them in Black Panther.

[Frontier]

If the Wakanda Disney+ series really is a not that long ago prequel that seems like a terrible decision the more I think about it.

How can you do such recent history with no T'Challa? Even if its focused on the Dora's how can he be totally absent for that?


The only reason I'd be a little interested is that it might mean Daniel Kaluuya will be back.

I'd rather watch a Killmonger origin, Wakanda series based in the 1800s, T'Chaka series. I liked the Yemandi episode on the cartoon series. That'd be a good show. I love Ryan Coogler, maybe these decisions were in place before Chad's death, but this is just not making any sense.

I understand (because of their friendship) removing him from the future. However, are you really going to erase him from the past as well?

I wonder if we'll see young T'Chaka and his Panther suit again.

[4sake Baned]

I’d advocate for a more ruthless T’Challa in the vein of Priest and Hudlin but I don’t necessarily NEED that from T’Challa. I don’t prefer it, but MCU T’Challa is an upgrade over what Coates has given us so I’d accept it. I’m with MOS. Give me the bare minimum and I’ll be happy lol.

I don’t need every run to completely recontextualize Black Panther as a character and franchise, I’m fine with the occasional gen like KIB every now and then but I don’t need Ridley to be Priest to be satisfied. I’m too burned out to expect that much, I just want a story that shows a character I like in a positive light and has something cool to put on display.

.

I kinda disagree with this take. Wakanda is plenty interesting and it’s populated by cool side characters that with enough push can sustain a fanbase and perhaps even a book independent of T’Challa (speaking purely on the comics). I just don’t think that attempts to push the backdrop of Wakanda should come at the expense of T’Challa in his own book.

I’ve been saying for awhile now Shuri should be out front with the current generation of legacy characters and being shown outside the bubble of the BP books. She should be appearing in the main BP title in a supporting role, getting a mini every 1-2 years, and be a primary character in Champions/Young Avengers. Just like Kate Bishop or Ms. Marvel. She’s that valuable a concept.

What I don’t want is for the Black Panther book to get turned into a stealth solo for her because the writer is more interested in her than they are T’Challa. Shuri is part of the world of Wakanda but that’s not who the vast majority of fans are picking the BP book up for. Same goes for the Dora, should be built up in minis and team appearances while playing support in the main title. That’s how you build a franchise, give strong limited showcases to the world/sidekicks in the home title but give them space to shine in their own storylines/teams. Thats basically how most of the major Bat-family members got to where they are now.

Marvel so desperately wants Black Panther to be their Batman that rather than organically build out the world of Wakanda they turned the main book into an ensemble to speed up the process. Sales crashed and burned and it led to controversy among fans (even if “critics” and literary types who clearly have an agenda to exalt everything Coates does loved it). Likewise it didn’t really elevate the characters involved outside maybe the MA, who are back to wallpaper status anyway with Okoye’s rightful return.

Who here expects to see Changamire as a driving figure past this era? He didn’t deserve or need as much panel time as he got, which is something that can be said about several characters in Coates’ run. The key word for this next era has to be “consolidate”. We don’t need 20+ characters in 6 issues covering 4-5 different perspectives simultaneously.

Shuri can almost definitely hold a book if they pushed her as hard as they do Kamala and featured her more consistently independent of her brother. Meaning she leaves the damn nest and actually is shown among her peers, getting exposure to new fanbases as part of different teams, and develops her own lore that still ties to the wider BP mythos.

Like Kamala her ongoing probably wouldn’t survive on the direct market but it could have strong sales in digital and Scholastic so there’s no reason she can’t work other than the stories being bad. Less sure on a Dora book but I’d apply the same principles. Or better yet consolidate all the BP side characters into a single World of Wakanda vol 2 featuring Shuri, Okoye, M’Baku, and Kasper with T’Challa making infrequent appearances to prop up sales at first.

THIS. Priest had T'Challa at the start of his run Punch the Frak out the devil and rip his heart out lol. Hudlin had T'Challa at the start of his run impale klaw on a spear and tell america to GTFO of Wakanda... Why are we settling for anything less then awesome isht like this?

Co-sign all of the above...

I may of been a bit harsh

I don't mean Wakanda can't be interesting or operate outside of of the main BP book, there's a lot to mine and explore of done properly, however, it isn't something that has been the focus of the franchise ever. Not to say you can't build it up, but I'm specifically talking about those who seem to think/pretend that Wakanda is Black star wars when it clearly isn't. My ideal idea would be: Black Panther main title, Shuri title, and an Agent's of Wakanda title that actually focuses on the HZ. The DM can feature in it as well.

That's how I would build it. Which AoW also serves as a book to explore the WK Military.

Marvel is frakking up by throwing people on the BP franchise who have half baked stories, don't give a frak about the characters, and frankly lack the skills to write the books. That's a recipe for failure.

When the movie 1st dropped I definitely think the franchise could hold 3-4 books but not currently.. Currently I think a main title with BP doing his thing, Shuri & World or Wakanda title ( her Shuri is lead, but also you have a small story per issue starting the Okyoe & DM for 3-4 issues, QDJ/M’kabu for 3-4 issues, Kasper for 3-4 issues, Maybe a random S’yan/QM/Zuri/etc tale or Flashback tell with a past Panther or a current character.. You then have side/smaller stores bleed into/reference in the main title when revenant/beneficial to BP or type directly into main Shuri story when needed..

I think Agents of Wakanda book can work but it has more tied to Avengers roster wise or Marvel U. We can trash roster like last time of just Araon & Zub faves.. It probably would have to call something like Avengers Agents of Wakanda or BP & Gobal/international/secret Avengers.. With BP leading/organizing c/d list Avengers/Marvel heroes with actually fan bases Instead of Broo, Doctor Nazi Nemesis, ManWolf, Gorilla Man, Roz & etc.

[Besouro]

I want a story that showcases what's great about Wakanda in general (and T'Challa in specific).

I DON'T want a book that's simply a soapbox for sociopolitical commentary about the BIPOC experience. While that's a worthy topic of discussion, BP isn't the book for it.

Give me Afro-Futuristic Action & Adventure, not anti-colonialism and misandry.

Give me mad & beautiful ideas, that takes the franchise forward into the 2020's, not the same-old rebellions and resurrections.

Give me a Black Panther book, not a book that Black Panther just happens to be a part of.

Here, here!!!!!

[Besouro]

Basically don’t have T’Challa be a mopey buffoon that constantly needs his hand held by the supporting cast. And don’t have characters from other franchises swoop in and take out the big bad and get the lions share of feats. Basically all I want is for T’Challa to be competent at the end of the day.

Agreed!!!

Just look at how Aquaman over at DC is written.

[Besouro]

The book is called THE BLACK PANTHER.

That should give folks a decent idea on what it should be about.

The first thing the character did on his FIRST appearance was to beat the entire Fantastic Four, on his own, just to see if they were worthy of an audience.

Start there.

I may never forgive you for how you abused and insulted African Gods (still worshipped today) in your Vixen story....but what you said it is the definitive BP.

Abso-freaking-lutely....Badabing badaboom, BAM!!!

The 2 steps ahead of my friends, 3 steps ahead of my enemies Tchalla.

A man of feats.

Noble but not reserved

Contemplative but NOT mopey.

Speaks in a matter of fact manner

Follows a trust but verify policy.

[Besouro]

Dude I couldn't even get through the article. It's ridiculous. Like, Coates loves to talk but say nonsense. I had to lol multiple times throughout it. Like the line where he said he didn't want to invent Characters yet that pretty much all he did. Tetu, zenzi, Ayo, Hodari Aneka, Akili, Changaroo... 7 Characters not including the empire people. Like if you didn't read the comics and just went off the interview you would think alot different of him. Like MoS said, he can't interview well lol. Shame on Evan

Agreed.....Evan was d***riding HARD!!!

[Besouro]

Don't use T'Challa the Black Panther, hit nation, and his franchise as a stage for his own political bias mouthpiece. I don't care of Ridley is republican or democrat, or whatever, T'Challa and Wakanda are neither. And should not be acting as so.

No more of this shit of T'Challa being a side Character on his own book, having random OCs or out of franchise Characters solving the issues or being the ones to defeat the villains of the story.

No more reluctant ruler bullshit. That's not T'Challa, it never had been, it never will be, and Coates attempt's and "interpretations" that historically thats how T'Challa has always behaved is incredibly flawed.

Basically takes Coates post 25 interview and about 90% of the isht he thinks in there and says, don't do that lol

Co-signed with a quickness.

[Besouro]

Elliot Franklin is Thunderball, who we are meant to believe has reformed...

Except he's still a villain in other books.

LMAO.... Good, and he should stay that way.

Hahahaha!!!!

[Besouro]

Did we already discuss who the villain might be for Ridley’s first arc? Are we getting a revamped antagonist or someone completely new? I’m thinking we’re getting an original villain but he’ll be doing a dive into continuity with the secret T’Challa’s keeping.

And after reading Who Is the Black Panther again a few days ago I’m thinking about how it sucks we never saw Cannibal again. Such an interesting villain for T’Challa to have that nobody did anything with. If Ridley’s doing espionage this run Cannibal would be a wildcard character to throw in there.

Agreed on Cannibal....but I still blame Hudlin for not following through with that character during run.

Has anyone contacted Ridley for some commentary about his plans or intentions for BP?

Has anyone found any interview perhaps?

[Besouro]

Ah...so they are just in an entanglement....

Imagine that.....TNC gave us 5years of that rubbish.