T'Challa: The Black Panther Appreciation 2021

[KingNomarch]

It was bad because at no point did he explain why the current system was a problem. And Aneka was sentenced by a judge. And Ayo petitioned Ramonda for a pardon. Which means there was never 'one man' doing it all to begin with.

Aneka's sentencing always made no sense especially when they had video evidence of the chieftain keeping young girls in a cage.

[Mike_Murdock]

The problem with Coates ambiguity and then Gays contribution is that they don't line up. It can't just be one political figure because he was executed early on but there is a fully functional (and fully offensive) rape treehouse we see. Whereas on WoW, it's just in a small village

I agree that Roxane Gay's story isn't consistent with the original story. That being said, the two incidents aren't related beyond the assaults and the fact that the Midnight Angels were the ones to stop it. Which is, by itself, lazy writing. But I do read them as separate, unrelated incidents.

[DigiCom]

Digi don't play games

I do me.

[Klaue's Mixtape]

Note to Ridley. Write T'Challa as an infallible character. That'll at least get you near Hudlin status which most will be fine with now it seems.

I'm not even knocking it (I like Hudlin). Just saying thats the easiest way to "win" it seems.

[Jabare]

Hudlin, Priest, and McGregor Panthers were not infallible.... they just knew how to fight.

[DigiCom]

Total infallibility is not necessary. Nigh-infallible or mostly infallible is fine.

Hell, at this point, I'd settle for occasionally infallible.

To me, it's more important that T'Challa is written as a king who WANTS to be a king.

Not a superhero.

Not a lab rat.

A king. Someone who will make the hard choices for the good of the realm.

To me, the only doubts T'Challa should have is whether he's as good a monarch as his father was.

I'm through with him whining about how hard ruling is, and asking people for help. By any reasonable metric, T'Challa has been king (off & on) for at LEAST 10 years.

He should know what he's doing by now.

[Besouro]

Wow Sky knows his stuff. I’m a little disappointed that Spawn has more. That doesn’t mean he has more quality issues or stories, but it’s still more.

Spawn Universe #1 was released last week which lays the groundwork for spin off books (King Spawn, Gunslinger Spawn and The Scorched) releasing later THIS YEAR. Next probably will probably release a spin-off for She-Spawn who is currently a recurring character in the main Spawn book

AND Spawn has had MANY earlier spin offs like Medieval Spawn, Sam & Twitch (tv show is coming) and others.

[DigiCom]

Spawn Universe #1 was released last week which lays the groundwork for spin off books (King Spawn, Gunslinger Spawn and The Scorched) releasing later THIS YEAR. Next probably will probably release a spin-off for She-Spawn who is currently a recurring character in the main Spawn book

AND Spawn has had MANY earlier spin offs like Medieval Spawn, Sam & Twitch (tv show is coming) and others.

I'm not sure Spawn counts, since his race is more or less an afterthought. (Always wears a full-face mask, and is horribly scarred underneath it).

Meanwhile, the longest-running comic by a black CREATOR (and one of the longest-running indy comics by the same creator EVER) is Fred Perry's Gold Digger, which should be ending later this year or early next with 300 issues.

[Ezyo1000]

I agree that Roxane Gay's story isn't consistent with the original story. That being said, the two incidents aren't related beyond the assaults and the fact that the Midnight Angels were the ones to stop it. Which is, by itself, lazy writing. But I do read them as separate, unrelated incidents.

You can't do that though because the video Aneka shows Queen mother in Coates issue is the same person she kills in Gays book, which it was stated that apparently he was the only one doing it, so therefore how did this massive treehouse show up without anyone noticing? T'Challa has spies all over the world and knows what going on in places on the other side of the world yet no one saw these giant ass treehouses? Really...

[Ezyo1000]

Note to Ridley. Write T'Challa as an infallible character. That'll at least get you near Hudlin status which most will be fine with now it seems.

I'm not even knocking it (I like Hudlin). Just saying thats the easiest way to "win" it seems.

Lol these types of comments are so funny, "wRiTe tChAlLa aS a mARy sUe bEcAuSE tHaTs hOw hIS FaNs sEE hIm" is basically how that comes off. Priests said it best

[chief12d]

Hudlin, Priest, and McGregor Panthers were not infallible.... they just knew how to fight.

Yea I don’t think that’s a fair assessment at all of what fans in here are talking about. T’Challa has taken devastating defeats and been knocked on his ass several times in his publications history and fans often enjoy those stories because it made sense. And because by the end T’Challa came back and got an actual victory. I’m fine with T’Challa getting beat up by his villains, in fact I think given how weak his rogues gallery is T’Challa’s villains would benefit from gaining some legitimate physical and strategic victories over him.

As long as it makes sense and the story does a good job of justifying why things played out that way. And eventually allows T’Challa to win in some big way. Achebe is probably the best example of this as someone who’s prep skills and connections allowed him to on multiple occasions thwart T’Challa’s efforts and for a time take over Wakanda. There’s no reason other writers can’t do this, T’Challa’s increased capabilities these last few years doesn’t need to result in the stagnation of his rogues gallery. There’s still plenty of ways around the suit and ways to take on Wakanda that don’t require an alien invasion lol.

[MindofShadow]

People who post the "we just want infallible T'challa" just out themselves as never having read Priest run.

Well, they actually out themselves as a troll. Name one "appreciation" thread where anyone goes, "I want my character to get his ass beat more and lose." Like, come on.


And coates had more Editorial oversight with his Cap run and it still sucked lol.

[MindofShadow]

Yea I don’t think that’s a fair assessment at all of what fans in here are talking about. T’Challa has taken devastating defeats and been knocked on his ass several times in his publications history and fans often enjoy those stories because it made sense. And because by the end T’Challa came back and got an actual victory. I’m fine with T’Challa getting beat up by his villains, in fact I think given how weak his rogues gallery is T’Challa’s villains would benefit from gaining some legitimate physical and strategic victories over him.

As long as it makes sense and the story does a good job of justifying why things played out that way. And eventually allows T’Challa to win in some big way. Achebe is probably the best example of this as someone who’s prep skills and connections allowed him to on multiple occasions thwart T’Challa’s efforts and for a time take over Wakanda. There’s no reason other writers can’t do this, T’Challa’s increased capabilities these last few years doesn’t need to result in the stagnation of his rogues gallery. There’s still plenty of ways around the suit and ways to take on Wakanda that don’t require an alien invasion lol.

Mephisto set off the whole thing tricking the infallible T'challa into kissing Nakia and... never 100% got punished really. They kinda just came to a draw. Which is fair, because that is kinda mephisto thing lol.

Achebe was never caught.

Killmonger straight up killed T'challa (thanks to dumbass Ross lol). T'challa never got revenge.

T'challa lost Nakia forever. Same Nakia killed his ex GF too.

Iron Fist punched him so hard, it gave him a death sentence.

M'baku got out of prison and killed future T'challa.

T'challa's last act in Priest run proper (aka no kasper) was basically breaking down and leaving the throne.


"Infallible T'challa"

[Mike_Murdock]

You can't do that though because the video Aneka shows Queen mother in Coates issue is the same person she kills in Gays book, which it was stated that apparently he was the only one doing it, so therefore how did this massive treehouse show up without anyone noticing? T'Challa has spies all over the world and knows what going on in places on the other side of the world yet no one saw these giant ass treehouses? Really...

The story explicitly describes it as the borderlands between Wakanda proper and the Jabari territories and also makes a very big point about how distracted T'Challa is due to the state of his sister. In World of Wakanda, the treehouse is related to kidnappings that were happening (which was unrelated to the chieftain assaulting girls from his village). In that story, it's explicit that T'Challa should be paying more attention and that maybe they should take it among themselves to deal with the problems the crown wasn't.

I don't think one has to buy that premise. It's entirely reasonable to think T'Challa, even in a state of grief, would be able to address these things. In fact, he might appreciate the distraction. In fact, unless Black Panther & The Crew takes place prior to Time Runs Out, he was tracking down the most random of rumors all the way to the United States during this period but wasn't paying attention to kidnappings in Wakanda. It also assumes that as advance a state as Wakanda couldn't devote the resources to this issue at all even with the devastation from the Black Order and the rebellion on the Alkama Fields. What I said before is that Coates sets up a story where there's an explanation for why everyone can be out of character. He isn't saying this is Wakanda always, he's saying this is Wakanda under exceptionally bad circumstances.

The chieftain is different. Like I said, aside from using rape in both instances, there's no causal connection. I think the original depiction in issue #1 is ambiguous but I do think it's possible to find fault with T'Challa and Wakanda (and, therefore, with Coates for writing both out of character without explanation). The quote is something along the lines of "the chieftain's deprivations were well-known." I originally read that as a situation where everyone did know he was doing this but his political position allowed him to escape prosecution. World of Wakanda interpreted it differently - it was well-known among the village but he was able to use his influence and power to prevent knowledge of this from escaping. Apparently, the chieftain's own daughter didn't even know. I do think, if this is the explanation, it's easier to accept that resources are a little more scarce and it isn't as easy for the crown to find out about things like this. I'm also a little uncomfortable with the idea that the crown has spies and informants in every single village in Wakanda to spy on its own people even if it's for a good cause in a situation like this.

[DigiCom]

Please note: Infallible doesn't mean "never loses"

Infallible means "doesn't make mistakes".

As any halfway-decent chess player knows, it's possible to do everything correctly, and still lose.

I think what's really irritating Panther fans (well, irritating me, anyway) is that T'Coates lacks any real agency. He's always reacting to events and being led around by the nose. And even when he DOES know what's going on, his plans all seem to boil down to "I can't do this by myself, so I should get help from someone else." (often, but not exclusively, African-American superheroes)

Contrast that with RJ's KiB one-shot, where T'Challa is confronted by a new foe, considers his options & resources, and comes up with a plan to save Wakanda that doesn't rely on help from Americans or an army of manes ex machina.