T'Challa: The Black Panther Appreciation 2021

[Ezyo1000]

Coogler’s a smart guy, he recognized that there is no black equivalent to Star Wars or Lord of the Rings and he saw Black Panther as an opportunity to make one. You got all these different factions, this rich lore, and of course an expansive cast of characters all built up over decades of publication. Black Panther more than any other Avengers-related property save Thor lends itself to the Game of Thrones epic, something that black folks have been craving for years and he embraced that.

T’Challa was undoubtedly the lead, but the supporting cast (whether we agree or not) was often said to have stolen the show, the worldbuilding was heavier than any superhero film ever, and the themes of social justice and black solidarity were very thick. Black Panther was the story of T’Challa but it was just as much the story of a fictional nation that captivated the entire world, its no surprise they were so comfortable moving on from T’Challa. Frankly it’s easier to move on from him than it would’ve been if RDJ passed after Iron Man 1 or Evans after First Avenger.

The ecosystem Coogler created after 1 movie is seemingly that strong and that’s a direct byproduct of him probably being more interested in the world of Wakanda than just T’Challa as a solo superhero. You can tell by the size of the supporting cast and the story direction he took, he sees the Black Panther mythos as more of an ensemble with a strong lead than a pure solo endeavor like say Batman. And that’s the increasingly popular perception of the franchise as a whole.

Thankfully the MCU seems to not keep directors for more than 3 movies so I’m fairly confident Coogler’s opinions won’t guide MCU BP forever. He probably won’t direct BP4 and after 7-10 years of T’Challa on the shelf I don’t see why Disney would never bring the character back when all reports seem to indicate Feige wanted that in the first place. Several supporting characters will either have died or been written out the MCU somehow so the supporting actors won’t have as much say either. I can buy T’Challa not being present for the rest of this trilogy but with there being a likely creative/personnel shift by the next trilogy, T’Challa might still have a chance.

I don't fully agree based on what Coogler said about BP. Like I think he wanted a fleshed out World but he wasn't trying to make Black GoT or Black star wars, of he was then the supporting cast (namely Nakia, Okoye, Shuri and M'Baku) would of done more and had more moments that really turned the tide or made more impact. Everything we experienced through the Solo, every interaction people think someone"stole the show" has a common theme.

T'Challa, we experienced Wakanda with him, these characters shined the most when interacting with him. I don't care what anybody says, like MoS put a few days ago, T'Challas conversation with Zuri and both conversations with his dad and the ones with Erik, particularly the last conversations on both fronts were more powerful than any other . moments in the movie. I heard people audibly saying "amen" and "holy ****" during T'Challas all of you were wrong speech. My wife who is not a super hero or comic fan at all was blown away by how powerful that scene was.

I think that had Chad survived, we would get more focus on T'Challa, Chadwick wanted that as well and I think we would of gotten it. However tragedy, grief and greed are running the show

[Klaue's Mixtape]

Here is what I mean by importance

*God forbid this happening*

If Tom Hiddleston died tomorrow they would simply recast because he's too important to the events they have planned. BP/Wakanda is just something almost a side to the main storyline in the MCU.

And ironically Shuri "being the smartest person in the world" furthers the need for her.

Its kind of amazing how the side characters ended up being almost too much of a good thing.

[Vanguard]

I think the fact that you, me, and everyone in this thread actually read BP comics makes us biased compared to people who don’t lol. We came into the movie excited to see T’Challa so naturally we are more interested and receptive to things he did. But as much as we joke about it, a lot of people thought Okoye throwing her wig was a highlight of the movie or that Shuri’s jokes carried the film. The supporting cast in BP was the strongest of any superhero film ever, it shouldn’t come as a surprise that for lots of people they were the ones that made the movie.

A recast is really just a wait and see thing. It could be BP3 (I think BP2 would need a Last Jedi reception for that to happen), it could be BP4 after Coogler leaves, or it could be never. If Coogler puts one of his director friends attached to his company on the D+ series and basically grooms them to be his successor, maybe we’ll have two directors back to back who don’t want to recast T’Challa. We could just as easily see a situation where the second Coogler leaves Feige starts casting T’Challa so he can make his debut in Avengers 6 before headlining BP4. It sucks we have to wait at all, but I’ve accepted all possibilities.

I understand. And I do think that other characters were allowed to shine more when it should have been TChalla’s movie. They really kind of omitted pieces of the character that would have made him more interesting.

[Klaue's Mixtape]

Again I'm excited as hell about non T'Challa stuff when I'm kind of meh on the MCU usually.

However, man how dope it would have been to see T'Challa leading the Avengers against Kang????? Just robbed man. So fricking close to seeing Boseman vs. Majors. Two brilliant acting talents. Imagine another really talented black actor as T'Challa plotting and planning how to defeat Kang (maybe Doom as well?). Just ugh..

At least we get the What IF series.

[chief12d]

I don't fully agree based on what Coogler said about BP. Like I think he wanted a fleshed out World but he wasn't trying to make Black GoT or Black star wars, of he was then the supporting cast (namely Nakia, Okoye, Shuri and M'Baku) would of done more and had more moments that really turned the tide or made more impact. Everything we experienced through the Solo, every interaction people think someone"stole the show" has a common theme.

T'Challa, we experienced Wakanda with him, these characters shined the most when interacting with him. I don't care what anybody says, like MoS put a few days ago, T'Challas conversation with Zuri and both conversations with his dad and the ones with Erik, particularly the last conversations on both fronts were more powerful than any other . moments in the movie. I heard people audibly saying "amen" and "holy ****" during T'Challas all of you were wrong speech. My wife who is not a super hero or comic fan at all was blown away by how powerful that scene was.

I think that had Chad survived, we would get more focus on T'Challa, Chadwick wanted that as well and I think we would of gotten it. However tragedy, grief and greed are running the show

It's rare that a superhero movie will give two side characters (female ones at that) a scene as powerful as the saving vs serving your nation scene between Okoye and Nakia. M'Baku coming in at the last moment after T'Challa convinced him to help save the kingdom was straight out of your favorite fantasy/space opera movie.

The supporting cast in BP had a level of agency and personality you typically don't get out of solo superhero movies, so calling it an ensemble with a strong lead is apt imo. Even though for me T'Challa was still an insanely strong lead and had the vast majority of the development. And a lot of that is due to Boseman's raw acting ability, most actors would've gotten completely lost in the shuffle with all the side characters, worldbuilding, and villain development Coogler did. I agree 100% that the scene between T'Challa and his ancestors and him and Zuri were the peaks of the film, but they weren't the only peaks, which is my main point.

It's definitely possible Coogler planned on focusing a bit more on T'Challa, he did establish a very strong future arc with the whole good king vs good man conflict. And since it was likely T'Challa would've joined the Illuminati, we could've very well seen a darker, more Priest-like T'Challa, which is something I think Coogler himself suggested he wanted to do in interviews. I guess we'll never know, but I don't doubt Coogler loves the character or made the decision not to recast with a heavy heart. It's just really garbage circumstances and like you said, greed.

[MindofShadow]

Again I'm excited as hell about non T'Challa stuff when I'm kind of meh on the MCU usually.

However, man how dope it would have been to see T'Challa leading the Avengers against Kang????? Just robbed man. So fricking close to seeing Boseman vs. Majors. Two brilliant acting talents. Imagine another really talented black actor as T'Challa plotting and planning how to defeat Kang (maybe Doom as well?). Just ugh..

At least we get the What IF series.

You could have easily wove in that the Line of Bashenga was one of the major obstacles for Kang the Conqueror in whatever century he was from.

[Klaue's Mixtape]

You could have easily wove in that the Line of Bashenga was one of the major obstacles for Kang the Conqueror in whatever century he was from.

I'm really hoping Feige has a trick up his sleeve. Its just hard to think that cause doing it around a person's death is cold. However, I just really wish they set it up for the character to just miss a movie, but come back. Just so much potential man.

[Ezyo1000]

It's rare that a superhero movie will give two side characters (female ones at that) a scene as powerful as the saving vs serving your nation scene between Okoye and Nakia. M'Baku coming in at the last moment after T'Challa convinced him to help save the kingdom was straight out of your favorite fantasy/space opera movie.

The supporting cast in BP had a level of agency and personality you typically don't get out of solo superhero movies, so calling it an ensemble with a strong lead is apt imo. Even though for me T'Challa was still an insanely strong lead and had the vast majority of the development. And a lot of that is due to Boseman's raw acting ability, most actors would've gotten completely lost in the shuffle with all the side characters, worldbuilding, and villain development Coogler did. I agree 100% that the scene between T'Challa and his ancestors and him and Zuri were the peaks of the film, but they weren't the only peaks, which is my main point.

It's definitely possible Coogler planned on focusing a bit more on T'Challa, he did establish a very strong future arc with the whole good king vs good man conflict. And since it was likely T'Challa would've joined the Illuminati, we could've very well seen a darker, more Priest-like T'Challa, which is something I think Coogler himself suggested he wanted to do in interviews. I guess we'll never know, but I don't doubt Coogler loves the character or made the decision not to recast with a heavy heart. It's just really garbage circumstances and like you said, greed.

Well it again comes back to a common theme with not only MCU movies, but other superhero movies and movie's on general featuring Black folk's. MCU has a history of weak AF supporting cast and villains. Who's it that out of 10+ years and 20+ movies we can count on only 1 hand how many good villains there are?

The reason BPs cast is so well received is because for one they were actually developed more then your average supporting cast member for solo hero movie. They were NOT on the level of Star wars, x men, suicide squad or any movie that's an ensemble. They weren't, straight up end of story. However, the bar is do low and people are so starved for positive diversity, that when BP dropped people thought that the supporting cast was bigger then they actually were. None of them had arcs except T'Challa, and maybe M'Baku. They are the same at the start as they are at the end. If it was an ensemble we would of seen change in the cast.

But people ignore that, I think most do it willfully but point is, it's easy to appear to be a stand out (which they were don't get me wrong) when the competition is so abysmally low that anything looks 100x better

[MindofShadow]

I'm really hoping Feige has a trick up his sleeve. Its just hard to think that cause doing it around a person's death is cold. However, I just really wish they set it up for the character to just miss a movie, but come back. Just so much potential man.

This shits about as depressing as fake entertainment characters can be lol.

Thing is, I really like the MCU (movies). So this hurts all the more.

I might hafta take a break from this Necropolis

[Ekie]

Not sure what a Loki episode has to do w/ Tchalla.

The worst thing about the comic delay is having to deal with MCU fans trying to make a topic out of everything that happens in every show released.

December is so far away...3 month delay, I might as well cancel my preorder

[Vanguard]

Not sure what a Loki episode has to do w/ Tchalla.

The worst thing about the comic delay is having to deal with MCU fans trying to make a topic out of everything that happens in every show released.

December is so far away...3 month delay, I might as well cancel my preorder

I’m not canceling my preorder and I thought it was November?

[Klaue's Mixtape]

Well Coogler isnt infallible. Space Jam 2 reviews are terrible. Not sure getting Malcolm D. Lee for something like this was wise. Kinda out of his wheelhouse.

All that time producing a flop could have been spent towards getting BP2 out earlier.

[BlackClaw]

Well Coogler isnt infallible. Space Jam 2 reviews are terrible. Not sure getting Malcolm D. Lee for something like this was wise. Kinda out of his wheelhouse.

All that time producing a flop could have been spent towards getting BP2 out earlier.

It was obvious Space Jam 2 was nothing but a cash grab. But then again, so was the original. Plus Coogler was merely producing that movie.

[skyvolt2000]

Well Coogler isnt infallible. Space Jam 2 reviews are terrible. Not sure getting Malcolm D. Lee for something like this was wise. Kinda out of his wheelhouse.

All that time producing a flop could have been spent towards getting BP2 out earlier.

To quote one reviewer-20 minutes in and the reviewer heard kids BEGGING to go home. And it was noting but an IP showcase.

I don't think Lee was the issue nor Coolger-this falls on the star of that movie-Lebron. Nobody is buying those toys and his acting as one person puts it is a turnoff.

[Dboi654]

It was obvious Space Jam 2 was nothing but a cash grab. But then again, so was the original. Plus Coogler was merely producing that movie.

I think he also rewrote the script if am correct?