T'Challa: The Black Panther Appreciation 2021

[chief12d]

Bast is not nor was she ever Orisha.

I don’t like the mismatching of African gods with Wakanda lol. Orisha refers to the Yoruba pantheon, Mujaji isn’t even a real god but it’s obviously connected to the South African rain queens, and Ghekre (the White Gorilla God) is from Ivory Coast or something. Casuals to African culture and history might think these things are made up but the haphazard mashing together of African deities is and always has been weird if you’re in the know.

If you were gonna use these obscure ass deities then why not just invent new ones unique to Wakanda? And if you must use actual African gods why not just use East African and Nubian gods? I could understand Bast because he/she derives from the Nubian pantheon despite being worshipped in Egypt, but Kokou (a Yoruba god of war) and Nyame (supreme god of the Akan, who should be skyfather level)? Unnecessary. And confusing, because we’re being told they’re all siblings when the established canon is that some of these gods have different parentage. Which isn’t even getting into stuff like Hadari Yao lol. Coates took what was already an iffy creative decision and complicated Wakandan lore for a false sense of pan-Africanism.

[Ezyo1000]

It doesn’t have to be BP because I think one would have to be a fool to think he’s the only interesting, well developed, non-stereotypical black male in the action-adventure genre. The lost of T’Challa is a travesty of pop culture but in a world where afrofuturism and afrofantasy are on the rise, there are other characters that can continue to inspire audiences. More and more we’re seeing projects in novels, indie comics, and animation that put black faces at the forefront.

The key is black folks supporting the creators that want to provide that content and black creators producing work with enough broad appeal to be ascend to new levels of popularity. All that said, losing T’Challa sucks a lot and as long time supporters I think some saltiness is justified. But I can sleep well at night knowing there are some amazing black characters out there controlled by black creators who are only a few steps away from breaking into the mainstream. The future is bright for black fiction and with writers like you at the forefront it’ll stay that way. Always looking forward to your Black Panther projects and indie stuff.

For me, it's the fact that T'Challa was a trailblazer and breaking the glass ceiling, so to see him get left behind hurts to witness happening. Dude has a lot of Importance attached to him so to see literally the biggest Black hero of all time just cast aside begs the question, what about other characters? Do they stand a chance at all?

[Redjack]

I don’t like the mismatching of African gods with Wakanda lol. Orisha refers to the Yoruba pantheon, Mujaji isn’t even a real god but it’s obviously connected to the South African rain queens, and Ghekre (the White Gorilla God) is from Ivory Coast or something. Casuals to African culture and history might think these things are made up but the haphazard mashing together of African deities is and always has been weird if you’re in the know.

If you were gonna use these obscure ass deities then why not just invent new ones unique to Wakanda? And if you must use actual African gods why not just use East African and Nubian gods? I could understand Bast because he/she derives from the Nubian pantheon despite being worshipped in Egypt, but Kokou (a Yoruba god of war) and Nyame (supreme god of the Akan, who should be skyfather level)? Unnecessary. And confusing, because we’re being told they’re all siblings when the established canon is that some of these gods have different parentage. Which isn’t even getting into stuff like Hadari Yao lol. Coates took what was already an iffy creative decision and complicated Wakandan lore for a false sense of pan-Africanism.

yeah but everybody's fine with Thor and Hercules.

and Gilgamesh being an Eternal.

etc.

come on.

[Devaishwarya]

The same way some won't tolerate/accept mutants being a metaphor/analogy for minorities...and others won't stand for the dilution of the Norse and Greek Pantheons...I won't tolerate some "woke person of Black intellect" misuse and misrepresent a true and vital and important and relevant African religion.

[Devaishwarya]

I don’t like the mismatching of African gods with Wakanda lol. Orisha refers to the Yoruba pantheon, Mujaji isn’t even a real god but it’s obviously connected to the South African rain queens, and Ghekre (the White Gorilla God) is from Ivory Coast or something. Casuals to African culture and history might think these things are made up but the haphazard mashing together of African deities is and always has been weird if you’re in the know.

If you were gonna use these obscure ass deities then why not just invent new ones unique to Wakanda? And if you must use actual African gods why not just use East African and Nubian gods? I could understand Bast because he/she derives from the Nubian pantheon despite being worshipped in Egypt, but Kokou (a Yoruba god of war) and Nyame (supreme god of the Akan, who should be skyfather level)? Unnecessary. And confusing, because we’re being told they’re all siblings when the established canon is that some of these gods have different parentage. Which isn’t even getting into stuff like Hadari Yao lol. Coates took what was already an iffy creative decision and complicated Wakandan lore for a false sense of pan-Africanism.

Thank you.
Throwing words together doesn't make one a writer.

[Redjack]

The same way some won't tolerate/accept mutants being a metaphor/analogy for minorities...and others won't stand for the dilution of the Norse and Greek Pantheons...I won't tolerate some "woke person of Black intellect" misuse and misrepresent a true and vital and important and relevant African religion.

King in Black's gonna make you mad then.

[Devaishwarya]

King in Black's gonna make you mad then.

It might have been...if I was reading it.

[chief12d]

yeah but everybody's fine with Thor and Hercules.

and Gilgamesh being an Eternal.

etc.

come on.

To be clear, it’s not like this is some big issue for me or anything. It’s just one of those nitpicks that as a big fan of precolonial African history/culture rubs me the wrong way lol. With Thor as far as I’m aware, they don’t assign him worshippers that he didn’t actually have when he was still worshipped. And with Hercules it’s the same deal, he did some stuff outside of what he was said to do in Greek myth but the core of the character is the same (outside the obvious comedic elements and such) For Gilgamesh, I’m pretty sure he’s not the actual figure, just someone who was mistaken for the real guy.

But with Kokou I’m left wondering is this the same god worshipped on the other side of the continent and if so, how is it he’s supposed to be a sibling of Bast. It breaks what was established about gods in the Marvel Universe and if it’s supposed to be the same god how come no one has bothered to explain how he ended up in Wakanda? Coates would’ve been much better served just inventing an original Wakandan god of war or pulling something from one of the East African ethnic groups in the area, like the Nubians or something. Like I said, it’s not the worst thing in the world, and I’m sure for 90% of readers they don’t know he’s using actual gods from African religions (many of which are still around). It just seems unnecessary and confusing.

[Overhazard]

yeah but everybody's fine with Thor and Hercules.

and Gilgamesh being an Eternal.

etc.

come on.

Well, Greece and Rome had basically the same pantheon right? Why can't we just say that Wakandans started worshipping gods from neighboring countries, where exactly is Wakanda on marvel earth anyway? I always got the impression that it was landlocked, but maybe there's a coast. If it's an isolationist thing, look at Japan and China, Japan was isolated from the west until the Meiji era, and they still shared 4 gods with China. The black warrior, the white tiger, the blue dragon, and the red phoenix.

[Devaishwarya]

Someone reading Simonson's Thor would see clearly how and where the mythology was adapted to the fiction but the characters, the visuals, the iconography, the mythology...they are all easily recogniseable to the source material.
Same can be said for Wonder Woman's Greek heritage.

What is a Black kid, an African kid, a Nigerian kid and yes, the Asian kid , and European kid...what are they supposed to see, understand and most importantly learn when they read Coates's 'Orishas': starring Bast, Ptah, Thoth, Mujaji and Kokou?

[Redjack]

Someone reading Simonson's Thor would see clearly how and where the mythology was adapted to the fiction but the characters, the visuals, the iconography, the mythology...they are all easily recogniseable to the source material.
Same can be said for Wonder Woman's Greek heritage.

Nope.

none of that is true. Marvel Thor bears zero resemblance to the Thor he's supposedly based on. Nor do DC's Amazons. Zero. This is what comics do. It's not meant to be insulting or to "appropriate" anything. It's supposed to be fun.

What is a Black kid, an African kid, a Nigerian kid and yes, the Asian kid , and European kid...what are they supposed to see, understand and most importantly learn when they read Coates's 'Orishas': starring Bast, Ptah, Thoth, Mujaji and Kokou?

if you're learning about the Orisha from super-hero comics you have a lot more to worry about than super-hero comics.

[Ekie]

https://www.ign.com/articles/wakanda...anchise-sequel


Tell me again how this "Honors" Chadwick Boseman and the character he chose to play while fighting cancer.

[Redjack]

Well, Greece and Rome had basically the same pantheon right? Why can't we just say that Wakandans started worshipping gods from neighboring countries, where exactly is Wakanda on marvel earth anyway? I always got the impression that it was landlocked, but maybe there's a coast. If it's an isolationist thing, look at Japan and China, Japan was isolated from the west until the Meiji era, and they still shared 4 gods with China. The black warrior, the white tiger, the blue dragon, and the red phoenix.

it's made up. fiction. never meant to represent any real place. never based on any real place.

[Devaishwarya]

So...Thor is not the God of Thunder who wields the hammer Mjolnir and whose father is Odin? Wow!
You mean to say, Heimdall and the Rainbow Bridge and Hel and the World Tree and Surtur...it's all fabricated completely and entirely out of Simonson's genius mind? And here I always thought he was inspired by those Norse Legends. That there were such characters as Valkyries riding winged horses.

I learned something new today.

[Ekie]

Edited post