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  1. #136
    Astonishing Member Koriand'r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Dyer View Post
    Can we agree, for sake of argument, that there really is no Wonder Woman family?

    Since Diana and her friends are essentially homeless, ..having no iconic BO, homestead, city or organization, in which they all belong to or reside in, there really is no hero family or Team Diana, here. With Washington, DC, ..Georgetown (a DC district), ..Ocean City, ..the Amazons, ..ARGUS and the Olympian gods - now, DC's Asgardians - established in the Wonderverse, none of the supporting characters are consistently affiliated, with any of the previously mentioned.

    Wonder Woman, Etta Candy, Col. Steve, Donna Troy, Artemis, I Ching, Maggie, Queen Desira, Hercules, Achilles, Ferdinand - where do any of these people live? Seriously? Where?

    Some of you will argue, "Wonder Woman doesn't need a family, house or to sleep in a bed ..or hang out, somewhere! She's not like other superheroes. Leave us alone, Mel." We understand all of that. Let the charge stand, anyway, for sake of conversation - there is no real Wonder family, anymore.

    We have no Wonder Woman family, as I see it. DC editors IC - presently Marie Javins - will not permit the creation of one.
    Orlando's Amazon Embassy problem solved

    PARADISE AMAZON EMBASSY.jpg

  2. #137
    Extraordinary Member Primal Slayer's Avatar
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    I rather just Gateway City.

  3. #138
    The Comixeur Mel Dyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koriand'r View Post
    Orlando's Amazon Embassy problem solved

    PARADISE AMAZON EMBASSY.jpg
    And where is "this spot", exactly? Where does the Amazon Embassy live, and who lives inside it? LOL

    Basically, there's nobody home, because there's no Wonder family. Haha!
    Last edited by Mel Dyer; 09-27-2021 at 05:19 PM.
    COMBINING THE BIGBADITUDE OF THANOS WITH CHEETAH'S FEROCITY, IS JANUS WONDER WOMAN'S GREATEST SUPERVILLAIN?...on WONDABUNGA!!! Look alive, Kangaliers!

  4. #139
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Wonder Woman is an adventurer trying to transform the world, she's not gonna have a homebase city to defend.

    But I'll continue to advocate that we need to revamp Holliday College as an alternative community in an abandoned college campus inspired by the amazonian ideals. It's serves as a women's shelter, a sports center, an arts studio, a training place for people to learn self defense abd Martial arts, a lecture hall, etc

    A place where people go to truly challenge themselves and a way for us to see Diana change the world.

    We also need to Holliday Girls / Wonder Scouts to come back as a group of adventurers and activists

  5. #140
    The Comixeur Mel Dyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Wonder Woman is an adventurer trying to transform the world, she's not gonna have a homebase city to defend.

    But I'll continue to advocate that we need to revamp Holliday College as an alternative community in an abandoned college campus inspired by the amazonian ideals. It's serves as a women's shelter, a sports center, an arts studio, a training place for people to learn self defense abd Martial arts, a lecture hall, etc

    A place where people go to truly challenge themselves and a way for us to see Diana change the world.

    We also need to Holliday Girls / Wonder Scouts to come back as a group of adventurers and activists
    I'll meet you on seeing Holliday College become Diana's home base, ..like seeing her moved into a large house, on the campus grounds. But, no, Alpha - I can't accept that the Bats roost in Gotham, and the Superfolks have Metropolis, ..while Wonder Woman has nothing. Nope. I have heard every excuse for this comic not having the basic things, which other superhero comics have - supporting cast, iconic home/city, established archenemy - and I can't accept them.

    I can understand fan optimism - loving the comic, as it is, and instead of criticizing what it isn't. What I won't do is make excuses for what is plainly wastefulness or just weirdness, on the editorial end. Several writers have attested to editorial control on the WW, insisting the only 'family' Diana can retain, from one run to the next, are Steve, the Greek gods and the Amazons, ..and I don't think it's unfair to call that weird...

    And it's not a family.

    I think Wonder Woman's superhero family should be based somewhere iconic, in Man's World, ..since basing them on Paradise Island makes Diana's leaving the Island, to protect Man's World, ..utterly pointless. I imagine her, somewhere in the American west - Gateway City and Etta's Bar-L Ranch, nearby - but, she could be anywhere, of course!

    I think we would all like to see Wonder Woman, Etta, Donna, Artemis, Yara, Desira and Fury teaming up and hanging out, somewhere - maybe, dropping in on each other, like the other superhero families? I think we should be able to see that, but, the way this comic is edited almost certainly prohibits that ..or ANY-thing that creates continuity for supporting characters, that editors might have to keep up, with.

    Diana, Etta, Col. Steve, Hippolyta and Siggy - will they ever get to become the WW comic's classic cast? Under the current creative restrictions, I don't see how Wonder Woman gets a Wonder Woman family. That, apparently, is reserved for Batman and Superman.
    Last edited by Mel Dyer; 09-28-2021 at 09:36 AM.
    COMBINING THE BIGBADITUDE OF THANOS WITH CHEETAH'S FEROCITY, IS JANUS WONDER WOMAN'S GREATEST SUPERVILLAIN?...on WONDABUNGA!!! Look alive, Kangaliers!

  6. #141
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    My point is that I don't see why Diana would get tied to a city. Superman being in Metropolis is still kind of hard for me to excuse at times, but Diana most of all wants to change the world, and no american City would be the place she would need to be in. That's why I think a Commune is the ideal homebase if there is one. Not a Hippie Commune, an Amazon Commune. A place where she can create a whole new lifestyle for people, which is something no other superhero has done.

    And this is a place where all the Wonder Girls would have a reason to visit regularly, as well as any ither supoirting character. It's where Julia Kapatelis and Helena Sandsmark would teach and collect rare and dangerous artifacts that the Wonder Scouts would protect. But Diana and Etta Candy should always be on the move, discovering new places.
    Last edited by Alpha; 09-28-2021 at 02:21 PM.

  7. #142
    Extraordinary Member Primal Slayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    My point is that I don't see why Diana would get tied to a city. Superman being in Metropolis is still kind of hard for me to excuse at times, but Diana most of all wants to change the world, and no american City would be the place she would need to be in. That's why I think a Commune is the ideal homebase if there is one. Not a Hippie Commune, an Amazon Commune. A place where she can create a whole new lifestyle for people, which is something no other superhero has done.

    And this is a place where all the Wonder Girls would have a reason to visit regularly, as well as any ither supoirting character. It's where Julia Kapatelis and Helena Sandsmark would teach and collect rare and dangerous artifacts that the Wonder Scouts would protect. But Diana and Etta Candy should always be on the move, discovering new places.
    Giving heroes a city/homebase helps build their cast and give them something iconic for people to remember. Doesn't mean that Diana cant still travel the world and have apartments all over.

  8. #143
    Mighty Member Sebastianne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    Here's what Conrad thinks

    wwfmco.jpg

  9. #144
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primal Slayer View Post
    Giving heroes a city/homebase helps build their cast and give them something iconic for people to remember. Doesn't mean that Diana cant still travel the world and have apartments all over.
    It's one way to do it, but it doesn't make sense for every character. Thor doesn't need one, Hulk doesn't need one, Green Lantern hasn't had one in decades.

    And again, I think the idea of Diana helping to build a new type of society is much more in line with her character. What would a city provide that an Amazonian Commune/ College Campus, wouldn't offer? Is Diana better off with the same police chief always giving her trouble? Or a corrupt Mayor she always has to butt heads with? Or a gang she keeps having to take down.

    I loved the William Messner-Loebs run, but I didn't find those aspects necessary at all.

  10. #145
    Astonishing Member Koriand'r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Dyer View Post
    And where is "this spot", exactly? Where does the Amazon Embassy live, and who lives inside it? LOL

    Basically, there's nobody home, because there's no Wonder family. Haha!
    PARADISE AMAZON EMBASSY 3.jpg

    Then what are 10 pages of this Appreciation thread for? The beauty of the Amazon Embassy is it could be anywhere and house any Amazon. It's a proactive move to advance their agenda of spreading their ideals to Man's World. It's a game changing paradigm shift but that doesn't matter anyway because we're in yet another new timeline, we lose a lot of good story ideas that way.

  11. #146
    Astonishing Member Koriand'r's Avatar
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    I thought this was interesting but I'm not sure where all the info comes from.


  12. #147
    The Comixeur Mel Dyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    My point is that I don't see why Diana would get tied to a city...Diana and Etta Candy should always be on the move, discovering new places.
    I agree, with you, Alpha.

    Some reason Diana can't live in a house, on Holliday College's campus, where she could interact, with the Holliday Girls and the other Wonders - Donna, Artemis, Yara, the Amazons, Desira, I Ching and Siggy? Wouldn't that be rather more organic, than this tacked-on embassy? I see Diana's life, at Wonder House, being very much, like your commune idea, ..without branding it an 'official Amazon commune' or embassy, ..which just feels forced to me and a bit superfluous, really.

    The other problem with building a Wonder family is how off-centered the storytelling is, in the WW comic. When you get a minute, check out https://wondabunga.blogspot.com/2021...-mala-not.html

    Writers and editors insist on a romance, between Steve and Diana, being the center of the narrative. That is wrong and off-putting, as I see it. Beyond the South Pacific styled island-origin, it's the friendship between Diana and Etta that is the center of the narrative. The friendship between Diana and Etta always brought them to Holliday College, drama with sinister Prof. Doris Zeul (WW's Zarkov) and the creation of anti-Etta/fun-Hippolyta, Queen Desira - and recurring fellowship and team-ups, between the Holliday Girls and Diana's Amazons, on kangaback! When I talk about organic, this outgrowth from Diana and Etta's friendship is what I'm talking about...naturally flowing and functional (very important), organic narrative!

    Comparatively, nothing organically grows, out of the instant-marriage of Steve and Diana. The only thing Steve is connected to is the US Military - embodied by Diana's Perry White, Gen. Phillip Darnell - because, during World War II, that's all that was necessary to make Steve a red-blooded, American male symbol of the 'War Effort'. Writers never made much of a family out of the Steve-Diana-Darnell thing, beyond WWII, and the on-going narrative sort of ends, in an olive green pile, with the three of them, cheating us out of what Robert Kanigher created, in the Silver Age...

    A Wonder Woman comic, that almost writes itself!

    When that happens, a Wonder Family, complete with mortal GFs, Amazons, superhuman male companions, created for use in the WW comic - NOT imported, like Nemesis or bloody Superman - will flow out of the pages, like honey! Kanigher achieved this, by moving much of the action to Paradise Island, with visiting Diana, Wonder Queen, Wonder Tot, the Amazons and Greek gods - organic, all in the family. Previously, those peculiar Marstonian characters, like Etta, the Candyes, Prof. Zeul, Oscar Sweetgulper and Queen Desira had solid narrative function that modern writers and editors can't seem to appreciate, ..and I think we're much poorer for that, as fans.

    Support Zephyr the Wonder Dog and her mountain of purple, Rosiweiler sisters!
    Last edited by Mel Dyer; 09-28-2021 at 09:43 PM. Reason: content, style
    COMBINING THE BIGBADITUDE OF THANOS WITH CHEETAH'S FEROCITY, IS JANUS WONDER WOMAN'S GREATEST SUPERVILLAIN?...on WONDABUNGA!!! Look alive, Kangaliers!

  13. #148
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    I can agree with most of that. And I often visit your blog. It's a lot of fun.

  14. #149

  15. #150
    Astonishing Member OBrianTallent's Avatar
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    The need for fans to see a Wonder Woman with connections is based in a psychological need for (regular) people to belong. Why does she need to be based in the US? She doesn't, but with 90+% of the readership base is in the US, it makes it easier for readers to relate. Especially if you want to attract younger readers and sustain that reader over a long haul. So that sets two parameters for the comic....people need to see her connect to others so that they have something they can relate to and they need to see her in a setting they can relate to (even in a wishful notion like a bigger city or a fictional city that they can transpose as something similar to the one they live in.) Whether we want to admit it or not, comics are a form of soap opera and as such, there needs to be interpersonal relationships, there needs to be a sense of who the character is as a person and if those dont exist because the writers (and or editors) are not able to see past basic conflict plots, then the character and the book will suffer.
    Likewise, as much as some people want to rail against it, comics are a continuity based medium. Issue one leads to issue two leads to issue three and so on. Along with that, people have an innate need to see things carry over from one issue to the next, even when one story arc ends there are ties back to previous issues. Why do you think Claremont's X-Men run was so popular? It was basically one long soap opera with super powers. Even when the main plot ended, there were smaller plots from previous stories that still went on whether it was Storm's changing personality, kitty's dance lessons with Stevie Hunter, Wolverine's romance with Mariko.
    Wonder Woman needs to have a character base around her, she can not exist in a vacuum of constantly changing characters. I firmly believe that is one of the things that has hurt her series. When has her book sold the most? When writers created a base for her that included a familiar place to return to, a family of characters to return to and even recurring villains. George Perez, John Byrne, Alan Heinburg all placed her in a constant. She needs normal people around her to help add to the wish fulfillment of it all. 1- You want to be the character or 2-you want to be around the character either as a friend or romantic interest. If those dont exist, there's nothing for the reader to connect with. With Wonder Woman...every time a new writer comes in and changes the cast, the reader goes through a bit of culture shock because they have to figure out if the new characters are people they can relate to and see some parts of themselves in. From that, readers can feel that there's nothing to relate to and see in the character and stop reading.
    It's also part of why secret identities work best in super hero stories....is the friend going to discover or is the villain going to discover and put the friends in jeopardy. Without that, you lose some of the tension of the story.
    Apologies if I was all over the place, but hopefully

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