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  1. #211
    Astonishing Member John Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natamaxxx View Post
    You can do almost all of that without adding a token secret twin sister to the main character who’s name is almost literally “the black one”.

    This is DC’s opportunity to divorce Nubia from that horrible origin once and for all. Hopefully, with some creative storytelling, she will come to stand out as her own character rather than being “Diana’s sister”.

    I hope DC just abandons the ridiculous idea of Diana having ANY twins, though I think it’s funny how folks are willing to accept this change in her origin, but not giving her a dad…
    What you're criticizing is the execution of the idea, not the idea itself. Yes, we don't need Diana declaring in all caps 'Gasp! My BLACK sister' but the idea of Diana having a sister and especially one who is also a black woman has been received positively. It clearly resonates with a lot of fans and it speaks to the power of the idea that the most recent person to write Nubia declared that she won't write the character unless she is explicitly Diana's sister.

    Plus it answers the question of why Hippolyta didn't make more kids after Diana was created especially since Hippolyta and Philipus' relationship is depicted as more explicitly in the comics.

    I'm fine with either way whether Nubia is Diana's biological sister or not but I think versions where Nubia is just another Amazon has never really stuck and it makes her stand out less if she is just another Amazon.

  2. #212
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    What you're criticizing is the execution of the idea, not the idea itself.
    I can't speak for the other guy, but I personally do not see the appeal of Diana having a twin sister with brown skin both in execution and even in theory. Why does this appeal to you? Or more specifically, why does she have to be a clay figure created by Hippolyta on the same day as Diana? Why can't she be Diana's equivalent but from another source by other people?

    I think it dilutes both Nubia and Diana. Now Diana isn't as much of a special creation, and Nubia will always be just as capable as Diana but not the most important one. Diana is the one that leaves the island. Diana is the one that wins the contest. Diana is the one that joins the Justice League. It suddenly becomes so racially charge when there is no necessity for that if Nubia had her own origin.

  3. #213
    Fantastic Member Natamaxxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wonder39 View Post
    To a lot of people, making her Diana's actual sister is important. She's not just some random Amazon, but of equal importance as a Princess of Themiscyra, daughter to the Queen (in fact, isn't that why Hippolyta made Nubia queen?) She's of equal standing with Diana. Yes you can have another Amazon with all those powers, etc, but at a deeper level, the sisterhood connection is a very important part of why Nubia resonates with a lot of folks.
    I’m sorry, but I just don’t see it. The very fact that she’s now been made queen in this continuity already makes her more than just some “random Amazon”. In fact she now outranks Diana herself and there are many ways in which she can be portrayed as deserving of her elevated place amongst the Amazons without being the token black sister she was originally created to be.

  4. #214
    Fantastic Member Natamaxxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    What you're criticizing is the execution of the idea, not the idea itself. Yes, we don't need Diana declaring in all caps 'Gasp! My BLACK sister' but the idea of Diana having a sister and especially one who is also a black woman has been received positively. It clearly resonates with a lot of fans and it speaks to the power of the idea that the most recent person to write Nubia declared that she won't write the character unless she is explicitly Diana's sister.

    Plus it answers the question of why Hippolyta didn't make more kids after Diana was created especially since Hippolyta and Philipus' relationship is depicted as more explicitly in the comics.

    I'm fine with either way whether Nubia is Diana's biological sister or not but I think versions where Nubia is just another Amazon has never really stuck and it makes her stand out less if she is just another Amazon.
    I’m criticizing both concept and execution. The “long lost twin” is a hopelessly dated soapy trope and with a few dashes of racism and tokenism you get original Nubia. I get that her being a blood sister to Diana resonates with fans…on this board (and ONE writer), but I doubt it extends too much further than that. I still can’t grasp why that would place any extra significance upon her & I’ve yet to read a convincing explanation other than personal preference.

    Like I mentioned before- there any many ways to help Nubia stand out as a strong, unique and independent Amazon in the DC Universe without her needing to be a blood relative to Diana. If it can be done with Artemis, and can be done with Nubia.
    Last edited by Natamaxxx; 07-19-2021 at 05:46 AM.

  5. #215
    Fantastic Member Sebastianne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wonder39 View Post
    To a lot of people, making her Diana's actual sister is important. She's not just some random Amazon, but of equal importance as a Princess of Themiscyra, daughter to the Queen (in fact, isn't that why Hippolyta made Nubia queen?) She's of equal standing with Diana. Yes you can have another Amazon with all those powers, etc, but at a deeper level, the sisterhood connection is a very important part of why Nubia resonates with a lot of folks.
    If I remember correctly, it is never mentioned in Infinite Frontier #0 that she is the daughter of Hyppolita, or that she is a princess,
    she participates in a kind of Constest to go to the man's world without knowing that Hyppolita had actually already decided that she herself would replace Diana and that in she was actually looking for the amazon to replace her as queen of Themyscira.
    Which I must say was all very poor in idea and execution.

  6. #216
    Fishy Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natamaxxx View Post
    I’m criticizing both concept and execution. The “long lost twin” is a hopelessly dated soapy trope and with a few dashes of racism and tokenism you get original Nubia. I get that her being a blood sister to Diana resonates with fans…on this board (and ONE writer), but I doubt it extends too much further than that.
    That statement gives off the impression that Nubia was a moderately well-known character before this year.

    Quote Originally Posted by Natamaxxx View Post
    I still can’t grasp why that would place any extra significance upon her & I’ve yet to read a convincing explanation other than personal preference.

    Like I mentioned before- there any many ways to help Nubia stand out as a strong, unique and independent Amazon in the DC Universe without her needing to be a blood relative to Diana. If it can be done with Artemis, and can be done with Nubia.
    The concept of Nubia being Diana's twin gives the immediate impression that they are equal. And yes, it does come with a guttural responds of "token black character", but unfortunately when a black character is introduced into any franchise, that is a response that is heard.

    If Nubia was introduced, not as Diana's twin sister, but still a woman equal to Diana and earning the title of Wonder Woman, the response that she was a "token black character" would still be felt.

    The criticism that making Nubia Diana's twin would restrict her to being a character defined by that title, would, I think, depend on the execution. Nubia really hasn't had many chances to be a character yet. She's appeared in more issues of Wonder Woman as a character who wasn't Diana's twin, and it hasn't done her any favors either.

    I fell though, by having Nubia's original debut be Diana's twin sister, that has at least paved the way for her to be given a bigger roll in the Wonder Woman mythos than she is presented with now. It has at least paved the way for Nubia to be given powers on par with Diana's.
    Last edited by I'm a Fish; 07-19-2021 at 07:09 AM.
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  7. #217
    Fantastic Member SonOfBaldwin's Avatar
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  8. #218
    Fantastic Member SonOfBaldwin's Avatar
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  9. #219
    Fantastic Member SonOfBaldwin's Avatar
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    "FUNKON 2021 just announced a Nubia Funko Pop!"



    SOURCE: https://twitter.com/nubia_dc/status/1414702171975786502
    Author of the Instant New York Times bestselling novel, The Prophets, from G.P. Putnman's Sons.

  10. #220
    Fishy Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SonOfBaldwin View Post
    Awwwwwww!!!
    ~I just keep swimming through these threads~

  11. #221
    Incredible Member Alphaxman's Avatar
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    I know it won't happen but I'd love it if Nubia was Philippus' daughter with Philippus and Hippolyta being married. That means both Dania and Nubia would be sisters with two mothers - just that each mother sculpted their own child who were granted life by the gods. Maybe Phillppus would do it after Hippolyta had Dania making her the older sister. And that Nubia was kidnapped by Ares replacing her with a doppelganger, making the queen and her wife believe the girl was dead. In their grief, they would never talked about her to Dania, who was too young to remember her sister. Years later, Nubia appears as the lost Amazonian princess - maybe as an adversary at first.

  12. #222
    Fantastic Member Natamaxxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I'm a Fish View Post
    That statement gives off the impression that Nubia was a moderately well-known character before this year.



    The concept of Nubia being Diana's twin gives the immediate impression that they are equal. And yes, it does come with a guttural responds of "token black character", but unfortunately when a black character is introduced into any franchise, that is a response that is heard.

    If Nubia was introduced, not as Diana's twin sister, but still a woman equal to Diana and earning the title of Wonder Woman, the response that she was a "token black character" would still be felt.

    The criticism that making Nubia Diana's twin would restrict her to being a character defined by that title, would, I think, depend on the execution. Nubia really hasn't had many chances to be a character yet. She's appeared in more issues of Wonder Woman as a character who wasn't Diana's twin, and it hasn't done her any favors either.

    I fell though, by having Nubia's original debut be Diana's twin sister, that has at least paved the way for her to be given a bigger roll in the Wonder Woman mythos than she is presented with now. It has at least paved the way for Nubia to be given powers on par with Diana's.
    Why would Nubia need to be Diana’s equal? Several other Amazons have been Wonder Woman at one time or another and none of them were written as being equal in strength and power to Diana. As long as there is a Wonderverse or Wonderfamily or whatever you want to call it, Diana will always be the main attraction and I just think that any character spun out of that world would be better served by not being a derivative copy.

    I agree with you in that execution is everything and no matter what direction they go in, I’m sure we will all find aspects of her story we don’t care for. If I’m being 100% honest, I rarely enjoy comics for the writing. It’s more about the art for me, so if the writing isn’t great, then I’m ok just having pretty pictures to look at.

  13. #223
    Fishy Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natamaxxx View Post
    Why would Nubia need to be Diana’s equal? Several other Amazons have been Wonder Woman at one time or another and none of them were written as being equal in strength and power to Diana. As long as there is a Wonderverse or Wonderfamily or whatever you want to call it, Diana will always be the main attraction and I just think that any character spun out of that world would be better served by not being a derivative copy.

    I agree with you in that execution is everything and no matter what direction they go in, I’m sure we will all find aspects of her story we don’t care for. If I’m being 100% honest, I rarely enjoy comics for the writing. It’s more about the art for me, so if the writing isn’t great, then I’m ok just having pretty pictures to look at.
    Nubia wasn't a derivative copy at the time of her conception, though. She was quite different from Diana outside of also being made out of clay.

    While I agree that people should be treated equally regardless of their strength, speed, ect. and that you shouldn't have to hit as hard as Diana or fly or be a carbon copy of her to be worthy of the title of Wonder Woman (hell, Diana had no powers for 5 years and was Wonder Woman ) I think, it is important to remember Nubia was the first black female superhero in comics (both DC and Marvel), and she debuted as being the physical equal to the worlds most iconic female superhero.

    Even to this day, there aren't many black female superheroes shown to be in the weight class of Wonder Woman in DC Comics. (I... honestly can think of any right now...Vixen sometimes, but she's been pretty all over the place.)
    Last edited by I'm a Fish; 07-19-2021 at 10:27 AM.
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  14. #224
    Spectacular Member HestiasHearth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natamaxxx View Post
    I’m criticizing both concept and execution. The “long lost twin” is a hopelessly dated soapy trope and with a few dashes of racism and tokenism you get original Nubia. I get that her being a blood sister to Diana resonates with fans…on this board (and ONE writer), but I doubt it extends too much further than that. I still can’t grasp why that would place any extra significance upon her & I’ve yet to read a convincing explanation other than personal preference.
    It's all good.
    It may not be convincing to you, but thankfully, it has convinced DC Comics and the powers that be, which is why we are getting some awesome Nubia content!!
    I cannot wait for Nubia and the Amazons, written by Stephanie Williams and Vita Ayala, with art by Alitha Martinez and Mark Morales (all of them creators of color Yay!!)
    October 6, 2021!!!
    ckPHysRQJGJZY2QWS7nxjk-480-80.jpg
    03ea4e14379a1c8bd54763ea396f5ca7.jpg

    Quote Originally Posted by SonOfBaldwin View Post
    "FUNKON 2021 just announced a Nubia Funko Pop!"



    SOURCE: https://twitter.com/nubia_dc/status/1414702171975786502
    OMG!!!! That is so cool!!!!!!!
    Thanks for sharing!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by SonOfBaldwin View Post
    Holy....!!!!!! Now THIS is RIDICULOUSLY AWESOME!!!! Wow. Amazing art of an amazing character!!!!! Thank you!!!!
    Last edited by HestiasHearth; 07-19-2021 at 10:49 AM.

  15. #225
    Mighty Member Largo161's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SonOfBaldwin View Post
    Nubia and the Amazons writer Stephanie Williams reveals in a recent podcast interview that Nubia will no longer be Diana's twin sister, though they will have a "connection."

    Nubia will, of course, interact with Philippus, with Williams noting how infrequently Black women characters are permitted to interact in a congenial manner in comic books.

    Nubia and the Amazons will be Nubia's "T'Challa moment" and it will be about establishing her origin, powers, and place in history. Her hero's quest story, essentially.

    Starts at about the 2:00:00 mark:

    https://anchor.fm/cerebrocast/episod...lliams-e14iprj
    This sounds great to me. Diana having a black twin show up thirty-plus years into her publishing history didn’t irk me when I was seven, but it’s seems way too hokey for this day and age.
    I only support clay origins.

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