Page 13 of 25 FirstFirst ... 39101112131415161723 ... LastLast
Results 181 to 195 of 372
  1. #181
    Incredible Member OOTCS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    676

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Why did they even give a family to him? Then h3 forgets about them in civil war until Tony calls him out on it, then they're dusted and he decides to forget due process snd become a murderer. They obviously had no plans for his character progression. Let's hope D+ fixes that. It's worked for all thr other underused heroes
    I'm guessing the thought process that went into it was that since MCU Hawkeye was so heavily based off of Ultimate Hawkeye, they might as well go the whole way with it and give him his Ultimate Universe family (while toning it down to make it family-friendly, which is why they came back after the snap). Until he went Ronin in Endgame, there was barely anything about the character that you could point to and say that it's based on the 616 version of him—and even his MCU Ronin era was more similar to his mourning period in the Ultimate Universe than 616 Clint-as-Ronin. Which is why I think that the upcoming Fraction-based TV show is going to be a very weird fusion, but that's a different conversation.

  2. #182
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Posts
    8,978

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Matternativ View Post
    I don't have a source at hand right now but I've as mentioned before I read multiple times that like most of the decisions in that movie I disagree with that was all Whedon.
    He and marvel studios apparently butted heads more than once during production.
    Yeah, and we've seen how Whedon's decisions don't always turn out good. I heard he didn't want the cave scene but I'd rather see that than the farm scene.

    Quote Originally Posted by OOTCS View Post
    I'm guessing the thought process that went into it was that since MCU Hawkeye was so heavily based off of Ultimate Hawkeye, they might as well go the whole way with it and give him his Ultimate Universe family (while toning it down to make it family-friendly, which is why they came back after the snap). Until he went Ronin in Endgame, there was barely anything about the character that you could point to and say that it's based on the 616 version of him—and even his MCU Ronin era was more similar to his mourning period in the Ultimate Universe than 616 Clint-as-Ronin. Which is why I think that the upcoming Fraction-based TV show is going to be a very weird fusion, but that's a different conversation.
    The funny thing is, Nat killed Clint's family in the Ultimate universe, while in the MCU, she sacrifices herself for them. I honestly can't believe two MCU Avengers were sacrificed for the most boring Avenger. IMO they should've just went with the 616 version.

  3. #183
    Spectacular Member Ruby Quartz Diamond's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Location
    Asia
    Posts
    160

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OOTCS View Post
    I'm guessing the thought process that went into it was that since MCU Hawkeye was so heavily based off of Ultimate Hawkeye, they might as well go the whole way with it and give him his Ultimate Universe family (while toning it down to make it family-friendly, which is why they came back after the snap). Until he went Ronin in Endgame, there was barely anything about the character that you could point to and say that it's based on the 616 version of him—and even his MCU Ronin era was more similar to his mourning period in the Ultimate Universe than 616 Clint-as-Ronin. Which is why I think that the upcoming Fraction-based TV show is going to be a very weird fusion, but that's a different conversation.
    Wait what? Ultimate Hawkeye had a mourning period? Did that happen in his solo series? Or in the whole team series?

    Like many of the fans here, I am rather disappointed by MCU Clint Barton and I have ranted about it several times when I first became a full-fledged stan last August, but it's just flogging a dead horse. MCU didn't just waste Clint's character but several others as well, most prominently Star-Lord imo. Wish they had gone with his Spartax ancestry instead of making him a half-Celestial but that's an entirely different conversation. At the same time, I could understand why they didn't prioritize Clint's character during pre-production stage. Joss probably wanted to explore more of his character but his decisions probably got vetoed by the top brass.

    But anyway, I'll just consider the Hawkeye tv series as a win for now. Besides, since I'm a relatively new fan, I still have the original material and other adaptations of his character to fall back on (like Avengers Assemble, Earth Mightiest Heroes, MAU3 etc.). Even despite his limited screentime in the MCU (someone calculated it to be almost 40 minutes in total!), I still enjoy his scenes the most when I rewatch Avengers, AOU, Civil War and Endgame.

  4. #184
    Incredible Member OOTCS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    676

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruby Quartz Diamond View Post
    Wait what? Ultimate Hawkeye had a mourning period? Did that happen in his solo series? Or in the whole team series?
    In Ultimates 3. He's more violent and reckless to the point where Wasp tells him he's going to get himself killed, and he responds, "So what?", he tells Spider-Man that violence reminds him of what happened with his family (which is why he loses control), he kills bad guys just for the satisfaction of it, and so on.

    In 616, Clint as Ronin is darker and more willing to kill than usual, but he doesn't go looking for fights just because, and he doesn't link his motivation to a single event.

  5. #185
    Astonishing Member Anthony W's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    2,100

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    This stuff is part of why I'm kind of over Kate as a character.
    What tipped me off that Kate was a terrible character is that being called Hawkeye is all she has.
    "The Marvel EIC Chair has a certain curse that goes along with it: it tends to drive people insane, and ultimately, out of the business altogether. It is the notorious last stop for many staffers, as once you've sat in The Big Chair, your pariah status is usually locked in." Christopher Priest

  6. #186
    Astonishing Member Anthony W's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    2,100

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by juan678 View Post
    Ugh....and Kate Bishop fans can't understand why people find this character insufferable. Thanks for reminding me why I dislike this character so much Marvel.
    "The Marvel EIC Chair has a certain curse that goes along with it: it tends to drive people insane, and ultimately, out of the business altogether. It is the notorious last stop for many staffers, as once you've sat in The Big Chair, your pariah status is usually locked in." Christopher Priest

  7. #187
    I hate Christmas Matternativ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Austria, Vienna
    Posts
    2,471

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OOTCS View Post
    In Ultimates 3. He's more violent and reckless to the point where Wasp tells him he's going to get himself killed, and he responds, "So what?", he tells Spider-Man that violence reminds him of what happened with his family (which is why he loses control), he kills bad guys just for the satisfaction of it, and so on.

    In 616, Clint as Ronin is darker and more willing to kill than usual, but he doesn't go looking for fights just because, and he doesn't link his motivation to a single event.
    Yeah even as Ronin he voices more discomfort in killing than most of the others in the team at the time and he doesn't try to actually kill any dark avengers when he goes after Osbourne.

    MCU Hawkeye would have mowed them down if he had to.

    Then again the MCU Avengers are more lethal to begin with.
    Last edited by Matternativ; 04-12-2021 at 12:17 PM.
    "̶l̶̶e̶̶t̶'̶s̶̶ ̶̶h̶̶a̶̶v̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶s̶̶o̶̶m̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶f̶̶u̶̶n̶̶,̶̶ ̶̶t̶̶h̶̶i̶̶s̶̶ ̶̶b̶̶e̶̶a̶̶t̶̶ ̶̶i̶̶s̶̶ ̶̶s̶̶i̶̶c̶̶k̶̶.̶̶ ̶̶i̶̶ ̶̶w̶̶a̶̶n̶̶n̶̶a̶̶ ̶̶t̶̶a̶̶k̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶a̶̶ ̶̶r̶̶i̶̶d̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶o̶̶n̶̶ ̶̶y̶̶o̶̶u̶̶r̶̶ ̶̶d̶̶i̶̶s̶̶c̶̶o̶̶s̶̶t̶̶i̶̶c̶̶k̶̶"
    "Let's have some fun, this riff is sick. I wanna mosh around in the Circle Pit!"

    Matt's Stuff [Blog]: Assassin's Creed - Ranked From Worst to Best
    Matt Eduardson [YT]: You are wrong about Mara Jade - More than just "the Wife"

  8. #188
    Spectacular Member Ruby Quartz Diamond's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Location
    Asia
    Posts
    160

    Default

    I didn't bother watching the Kate Bishop video and judging from the comments, I'm not exactly missing out lol

  9. #189
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    2,528

    Default

    I love Clint and Kate. I don't know why so many people (both among the fans and at Marvel with the whole "best Hawkeye" nonsense) seem to think it has to be an either-or thing. In story the two of them are friends and allies, so why shouldn't fans be able to enjoy and appreciate both?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony W View Post
    What tipped me off that Kate was a terrible character is that being called Hawkeye is all she has.
    Not sure how its "all she has". She was already serving as a Young Avenger before she was given that name, using a variety of weapons as well as her hand to hand skills. She spent years training not only in archery, but also in swordsmanship and unarmed combat. She also displayed natural leadership talents, which came in handy after Iron Lad had to leave the team and Patriot's MGH use made him a bit too unstable to lead effectively.

    I get that you don't like her, and that's fine. Different strokes, and all that. I just think you're being overly harsh and inaccurate with that comment.

  10. #190
    Fantastic Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2020
    Posts
    445

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dermie View Post
    I love Clint and Kate. I don't know why so many people (both among the fans and at Marvel with the whole "best Hawkeye" nonsense) seem to think it has to be an either-or thing. In story the two of them are friends and allies, so why shouldn't fans be able to enjoy and appreciate both?
    Blame the writers who alway write Kate Bishop being the smartest Hawkeye while Clint Barton was written as a useless, dumb hawkeye.

  11. #191
    I hate Christmas Matternativ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Austria, Vienna
    Posts
    2,471

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dermie

    I get that you don't like her, and that's fine. Different strokes, and all that. I just think you're being overly harsh and inaccurate with that comment.
    You are wasting your breath on him. Personally I don't feel like I've been missing out since the day I made use of the mute function.

    Quote Originally Posted by LAWtoyoto 432 View Post
    Blame the writers who alway write Kate Bishop being the smartest Hawkeye while Clint Barton was written as a useless, dumb hawkeye.
    I actually don't think any of the writers outside of Lemire actually took that seriously but YouTube videos like the one posted before certainly don't help.
    Last edited by Matternativ; 04-13-2021 at 02:15 AM.
    "̶l̶̶e̶̶t̶'̶s̶̶ ̶̶h̶̶a̶̶v̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶s̶̶o̶̶m̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶f̶̶u̶̶n̶̶,̶̶ ̶̶t̶̶h̶̶i̶̶s̶̶ ̶̶b̶̶e̶̶a̶̶t̶̶ ̶̶i̶̶s̶̶ ̶̶s̶̶i̶̶c̶̶k̶̶.̶̶ ̶̶i̶̶ ̶̶w̶̶a̶̶n̶̶n̶̶a̶̶ ̶̶t̶̶a̶̶k̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶a̶̶ ̶̶r̶̶i̶̶d̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶o̶̶n̶̶ ̶̶y̶̶o̶̶u̶̶r̶̶ ̶̶d̶̶i̶̶s̶̶c̶̶o̶̶s̶̶t̶̶i̶̶c̶̶k̶̶"
    "Let's have some fun, this riff is sick. I wanna mosh around in the Circle Pit!"

    Matt's Stuff [Blog]: Assassin's Creed - Ranked From Worst to Best
    Matt Eduardson [YT]: You are wrong about Mara Jade - More than just "the Wife"

  12. #192
    Spectacular Member Ruby Quartz Diamond's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Location
    Asia
    Posts
    160

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LAWtoyoto 432 View Post
    Blame the writers who alway write Kate Bishop being the smartest Hawkeye while Clint Barton was written as a useless, dumb hawkeye.
    It's only Lemire who exaggerated that and to a small extent, Fraction, Duggan and Thompson but they wrote it as a passing remark only once or twice. It's more of the fans who made what is meant to be just poking harmless fun into an overblown 'she versus him' thing, really. It's simple to just ignore that.

    I just fear that this whole 'better Hawkeye' thing is just going to get more out of control once the Hawkeye show is officially released. That's when I'll religiously avoid social media (except for Discord and Reddit).
    Last edited by Ruby Quartz Diamond; 04-13-2021 at 06:47 AM.

  13. #193
    I hate Christmas Matternativ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Austria, Vienna
    Posts
    2,471

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruby Quartz Diamond View Post
    It's only Lemire who exaggerated that and to a small extent, Fraction, Duggan and Thompson but they wrote it as a passing remark only once or twice. It's more of the fans who made what is meant to be just poking harmless fun into an overblown thing 'she versus him', really. It's simple to just ignore that.

    I just fear that this whole 'better Hawkeye' thing is just going to get more out of control once the Hawkeye show is officially released. That's when I'll religiously avoid social media (except for Discord and Reddit).
    Yeah I fear we'll go through the same lame jokes all over again and depending on how popular it is well also see a team hawkeye reunion in the comics.
    "̶l̶̶e̶̶t̶'̶s̶̶ ̶̶h̶̶a̶̶v̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶s̶̶o̶̶m̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶f̶̶u̶̶n̶̶,̶̶ ̶̶t̶̶h̶̶i̶̶s̶̶ ̶̶b̶̶e̶̶a̶̶t̶̶ ̶̶i̶̶s̶̶ ̶̶s̶̶i̶̶c̶̶k̶̶.̶̶ ̶̶i̶̶ ̶̶w̶̶a̶̶n̶̶n̶̶a̶̶ ̶̶t̶̶a̶̶k̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶a̶̶ ̶̶r̶̶i̶̶d̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶o̶̶n̶̶ ̶̶y̶̶o̶̶u̶̶r̶̶ ̶̶d̶̶i̶̶s̶̶c̶̶o̶̶s̶̶t̶̶i̶̶c̶̶k̶̶"
    "Let's have some fun, this riff is sick. I wanna mosh around in the Circle Pit!"

    Matt's Stuff [Blog]: Assassin's Creed - Ranked From Worst to Best
    Matt Eduardson [YT]: You are wrong about Mara Jade - More than just "the Wife"

  14. #194
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    69,065

    Default

    I like Kate as a character. I like her comics. I don't like her as a partner for Clint and I feel it does more for her than for him in the past few years, but it is what it is.

    I guess part of it is I just don't really enjoy modern Clint that much anymore, so pairing him with a character that's as sassy and confident as he used to be just makes it more apparent. I'd rather they give him a better costume and have him start acting more like himself, at least in my mind.

  15. #195
    Spectacular Member Ruby Quartz Diamond's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Location
    Asia
    Posts
    160

    Default

    I don't like Goofy Clint either.

    I wish there's another comic run for the Hawkeye and Winter Soldier team-up, preferably by Rosenberg.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •