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  1. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    A bow and arrow are classic and have a lot more flair than a gun. Especially with trick arrows .

    I mean, they're plant people so I feel like it's kind of vague...
    Classic or outdated?

    If they're sentient, they should be counted as kills

  2. #257
    I hate Christmas Matternativ's Avatar
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    I do think it would be fun to see a scene where his bow gets damaged and he's cornered by some goons who are like "we've got you now, avenger" just for him to disarm one, shoot everyone in a non lethal way and knocking out the last person by throwing the now empty gun in their face and walking off while saying something about how he'd have used net arrows but they've brought that on themselves.
    "̶l̶̶e̶̶t̶'̶s̶̶ ̶̶h̶̶a̶̶v̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶s̶̶o̶̶m̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶f̶̶u̶̶n̶̶,̶̶ ̶̶t̶̶h̶̶i̶̶s̶̶ ̶̶b̶̶e̶̶a̶̶t̶̶ ̶̶i̶̶s̶̶ ̶̶s̶̶i̶̶c̶̶k̶̶.̶̶ ̶̶i̶̶ ̶̶w̶̶a̶̶n̶̶n̶̶a̶̶ ̶̶t̶̶a̶̶k̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶a̶̶ ̶̶r̶̶i̶̶d̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶o̶̶n̶̶ ̶̶y̶̶o̶̶u̶̶r̶̶ ̶̶d̶̶i̶̶s̶̶c̶̶o̶̶s̶̶t̶̶i̶̶c̶̶k̶̶"
    "Let's have some fun, this riff is sick. I wanna mosh around in the Circle Pit!"

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  3. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAWtoyoto 432 View Post
    Actually, which one of them is sexiest and horny?

  4. #259
    Spectacular Member Ruby Quartz Diamond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OOTCS View Post
    They absolutely have an issue killing people. It's against the Avengers charter to kill, and Avengers have been court-martialed for accidental killing, including when Clint accidentally killed Egghead, if I recall correctly. On top of that, Clint famously kicked Mockingbird, his own wife, out of the Avengers because she decided not to save the life of her rapist during a fight.
    I keep seeing that West Coast Avengers got problematic near the end of its run but now I know the reason for certain. I mean back then works of art were products of their time and the predominantly male writers project their views towards delicate issues rather flippantly through the works, so Clint's actions were unfortunately reflective of the writers' attitudes. But then again, I haven't started reading WCA and I did read the Mockingbird's death ended up being retconned.

  5. #260
    Incredible Member OOTCS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruby Quartz Diamond View Post
    I keep seeing that West Coast Avengers got problematic near the end of its run but now I know the reason for certain. I mean back then works of art were products of their time and the predominantly male writers project their views towards delicate issues rather flippantly through the works, so Clint's actions were unfortunately reflective of the writers' attitudes. But then again, I haven't started reading WCA and I did read the Mockingbird's death ended up being retconned.
    The way it was presented at the time was fairly progressive, since the narrative had Bobbi in the right and almost all of the characters were on her side. The writer of this story, Steve Englehart, says in interviews that she was justified, and he even reiterates the point in other books like Hellcat (2000) and Fantastic Four: Big Town (which is an AU, but a similar topic comes up).

    I think what Englehart was trying to do in this story was to show that with Clint being such a new leader, he had a lot of insecurity about living up to the standards of role models like Captain America and showing that his team was just as good as the "main" Avengers team, and because of that, he ended up sticking too rigidly to the letter of the law instead of realizing that there are times exceptions should be made. Which is basically what Wasp says to him, but it's too late, and his pride prevents him from changing his mind.

    As far as the Skrull retcon goes, the timeline is like this:

    • WCA gets lost in time, Bobbi gets abducted and brainwashed by the Phantom Rider, eventually shakes off his brainwashing with the help of Two-Gun Kid, confronts Phantom Rider, he dies
    • Bobbi gets reunited with the WCA, she tells Clint the Phantom Rider killed himself
    • WCA returns to present time, Bobbi goes back and forth about telling Clint the truth but she's afraid he'll judge her for killing Phantom Rider
    • Phantom Rider's ghost tells Clint his version of the story, Clint gets mad at Bobbi, they have a big fight, the team splits up
    • The title gets a new creative team
    • Bobbi and Clint are on and off for several years
    • The title gets another new creative team
    • During an off-period, they're about to make a final decision about whether or not to get divorced, Bobbi gets captured by Ultron, Clint realizes he loves her and doesn't know what he would do without her in his life
    • Post–Secret Invasion Retcon: Bobbi gets abducted/replaced by the Skrulls
    • Bobbi (later retconned as a Skrull) and Clint reconcile once and for all, but they don't talk about the Phantom Rider
    • Bobbi (later retconned as a Skrull) dies saving Clint from Mephisto
    • Clint gets killed and resurrected by Scarlet Witch in Avengers Disassembled, he now understands better what Bobbi went through with the Phantom Rider
    • Secret Invasion: Bobbi comes back
    • Clint thinks they're reconciled, Bobbi thinks they're having an off-period, they clarify the situation with the timeline of her abduction
    • Clint finally gives her a decent apology and they reconcile

  6. #261
    Incredible Member OOTCS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Weren't they killing Cotati in Empyre?
    I think the rules are different when there's an invasion; it's not like they can fight off an entire army by subduing all of them non-lethally. I guess it's more "Avengers don't kill (if there's another option)." There was a scene where the Avengers fought off a Cotati attack, and then the Kree-Skrull forces killed the defeated Cotati, and then the Avengers got mad at them, so I think you're right that the sentiment extends to sentient aliens. Hand ninjas, on the other hand, are often referred to as already dead, so even heroes who don't usually kill (like Daredevil) will make an exception for them.

  7. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by OOTCS View Post
    I think the rules are different when there's an invasion; it's not like they can fight off an entire army by subduing all of them non-lethally. I guess it's more "Avengers don't kill (if there's another option)." There was a scene where the Avengers fought off a Cotati attack, and then the Kree-Skrull forces killed the defeated Cotati, and then the Avengers got mad at them, so I think you're right that the sentiment extends to sentient aliens. Hand ninjas, on the other hand, are often referred to as already dead, so even heroes who don't usually kill (like Daredevil) will make an exception for them.
    Ok. It makes sense they'd kill in a war.

  8. #263
    Incredible Member Eto's Avatar
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    He should have an ongoing or at least a 12-issue maxi series, most likely it will happen soon though. No way they're not giving him a book when he's getting his own tv-show (co-starring, fine).

  9. #264
    Spectacular Member Ruby Quartz Diamond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eto View Post
    He should have an ongoing or at least a 12-issue maxi series, most likely it will happen soon though. No way they're not giving him a book when he's getting his own tv-show (co-starring, fine).
    I would like that but I don't think that's for certain just because he has a show coming up since Wanda, Vision, Sam and Bucky didn't have any new runs when their shows were airing.

  10. #265
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruby Quartz Diamond View Post
    I would like that but I don't think that's for certain just because he has a show coming up since Wanda, Vision, Sam and Bucky didn't have any new runs when their shows were airing.
    Not when the show was airing, but they did do a Sam and Bucky mini before it aired and Bleeding Cool confirmed a new Moon Knight book.

  11. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruby Quartz Diamond View Post
    I would like that but I don't think that's for certain just because he has a show coming up since Wanda, Vision, Sam and Bucky didn't have any new runs when their shows were airing.
    Only Wanda can't get a book since she is justly despised by the mutant populace.
    I don't blind date I make the direct market vibrate

  12. #267
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    Only Wanda can't get a book since she is justly despised by the mutant populace.
    (And quite possibly Marvel Editorial. Or just apathy).

  13. #268
    I hate Christmas Matternativ's Avatar
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    It's also possible that we'll get another Kate Solo instead with the occasional Clint appearance.

    Bringing back Lemire to spite me personally.
    "̶l̶̶e̶̶t̶'̶s̶̶ ̶̶h̶̶a̶̶v̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶s̶̶o̶̶m̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶f̶̶u̶̶n̶̶,̶̶ ̶̶t̶̶h̶̶i̶̶s̶̶ ̶̶b̶̶e̶̶a̶̶t̶̶ ̶̶i̶̶s̶̶ ̶̶s̶̶i̶̶c̶̶k̶̶.̶̶ ̶̶i̶̶ ̶̶w̶̶a̶̶n̶̶n̶̶a̶̶ ̶̶t̶̶a̶̶k̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶a̶̶ ̶̶r̶̶i̶̶d̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶o̶̶n̶̶ ̶̶y̶̶o̶̶u̶̶r̶̶ ̶̶d̶̶i̶̶s̶̶c̶̶o̶̶s̶̶t̶̶i̶̶c̶̶k̶̶"
    "Let's have some fun, this riff is sick. I wanna mosh around in the Circle Pit!"

    Matt's Stuff [Blog]: Assassin's Creed - Ranked From Worst to Best
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  14. #269
    Spectacular Member Ruby Quartz Diamond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Not when the show was airing, but they did do a Sam and Bucky mini before it aired and Bleeding Cool confirmed a new Moon Knight book.
    Oh yeah I intentionally forgot about Landy's FTATWS because I was severely underwhelmed by it and wanted the run to be erased in my memory.

    Never read MK before.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matternativ View Post
    It's also possible that we'll get another Kate Solo instead with the occasional Clint appearance.

    Bringing back Lemire to spite me personally.
    Please don't. Is Lemire still even writing for Marvel?

    I would rather a writer that actually enjoys Clint as a character and understands his history, abilities and motivations. A shame that Gruenwald has passed away. I quite enjoyed his 1988 Hawkeye limited series. I think Busiek understood Clint best too. Rosenberg is kinda a close second (and hopefully will bring back the Bucky x Clint bromance).

  15. #270
    I hate Christmas Matternativ's Avatar
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    I don't actually know whether Lemire is still working with marvel. I was just messing around anyway.

    I'd like for Rosenberg to continue whatever story he wanted to tell with Freefall. At least in his hands we know there will always be more to Clint than just "Hawkguy".
    "̶l̶̶e̶̶t̶'̶s̶̶ ̶̶h̶̶a̶̶v̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶s̶̶o̶̶m̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶f̶̶u̶̶n̶̶,̶̶ ̶̶t̶̶h̶̶i̶̶s̶̶ ̶̶b̶̶e̶̶a̶̶t̶̶ ̶̶i̶̶s̶̶ ̶̶s̶̶i̶̶c̶̶k̶̶.̶̶ ̶̶i̶̶ ̶̶w̶̶a̶̶n̶̶n̶̶a̶̶ ̶̶t̶̶a̶̶k̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶a̶̶ ̶̶r̶̶i̶̶d̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶o̶̶n̶̶ ̶̶y̶̶o̶̶u̶̶r̶̶ ̶̶d̶̶i̶̶s̶̶c̶̶o̶̶s̶̶t̶̶i̶̶c̶̶k̶̶"
    "Let's have some fun, this riff is sick. I wanna mosh around in the Circle Pit!"

    Matt's Stuff [Blog]: Assassin's Creed - Ranked From Worst to Best
    Matt Eduardson [YT]: You are wrong about Mara Jade - More than just "the Wife"

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