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  1. #76
    Fantastic Member Sneakronicity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruby Quartz Diamond View Post
    Anyone else thinks that Clint’s brief appearance in Edmonson’s Black Widow run was very pointless and meaningless? He just landed on a car from a great height and just walked away like nothing happened while Nat’s companion quipped ‘that looks bad’.
    The way I still feel like a fool thinking he was going to have an important part in that run because of that cameo lol. Weren't Natasha and her lawyer discussing how she had to let her friends in or something? And then Clint just falls into the scene? I was so sure that was foreshadowing, and then later on it was Clint that showed up at the hospital to talk to Isaiah I thought it was setting him up to help her out in the end. Apparently I read foreshadowing and setup in everything lol

    That run was a little weird with the cameos, though. All her former love interests got issues where they showed up for whatever reason, all within the same arc, and Clint's was the only one that really had anything to do with the plot as it was a flashback that setup a character in the present. Noto drew a real pretty Clint though lol

  2. #77
    Spectacular Member Ruby Quartz Diamond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sneakronicity View Post
    The way I still feel like a fool thinking he was going to have an important part in that run because of that cameo lol. Weren't Natasha and her lawyer discussing how she had to let her friends in or something? And then Clint just falls into the scene? I was so sure that was foreshadowing, and then later on it was Clint that showed up at the hospital to talk to Isaiah I thought it was setting him up to help her out in the end. Apparently I read foreshadowing and setup in everything lol

    That run was a little weird with the cameos, though. All her former love interests got issues where they showed up for whatever reason, all within the same arc, and Clint's was the only one that really had anything to do with the plot as it was a flashback that setup a character in the present. Noto drew a real pretty Clint though lol
    So you're telling me that Clint appeared in Edmonson's run beyond chapter 6? Well, I just have to read more the run then lol. I doubt he'll play a prominent role anyway since it is still predominantly a Black Widow run. At least now I know to lower my expectations lol. Yeah Noto drew Clint very prettily.

    And joke's on me because I thought that the Clint Barton DLC will be out this month but it's actually next month. I watched the gameplay demo...and I'm pretty much underwhelmed but I really like how he could switch between his bow & arrows and sword in his civvies.

    Btw, long time Hawkeye fans, what is the general reception towards Clint in his Ronin persona? Do fans like it? Dislike it? Couldn't care less about it? Because I find it bizarre how Clint took the Ronin mantle from Maya in New Avengers and even passed his Hawkeye mantle to Kate, then suddenly it was forgotten that he was Ronin when the Heroic Age started. Then it's revisited again in Hawkeye: Freefall.

  3. #78
    Incredible Member OOTCS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruby Quartz Diamond View Post
    Btw, long time Hawkeye fans, what is the general reception towards Clint in his Ronin persona? Do fans like it? Dislike it? Couldn't care less about it? Because I find it bizarre how Clint took the Ronin mantle from Maya in New Avengers and even passed his Hawkeye mantle to Kate, then suddenly it was forgotten that he was Ronin when the Heroic Age started. Then it's revisited again in Hawkeye: Freefall.
    It's actually brought up in Widowmaker, which is a Black Widow and Hawkeye & Mockingbird crossover that takes place toward the beginning of the Heroic Age, after Clint switched back to Hawkeye.

    In the context of Clint's superhero career, it seems like Ronin is a stage where he's looking to find himself, just like the few times he tried out being Goliath, when he left the Avengers to be Two-Gun Kid's partner, when he left the Avengers to strike out on his own, when he left the Avengers to lead the Thunderbolts, then the Occupy Avengers team, and so on. Finding himself and proving himself are two big themes in Clint's life, and Ronin was a fitting persona for that era in his life (it's explained a bit more in New Avengers: The Reunion and in Avengers/Invaders #7 why he specifically uses that name/costume/weapons), just as the other personas he's tried in were appropriate for the time. He always comes back to Hawkeye in the end, but there's always room for him to explore a new facet.
    Last edited by OOTCS; 02-21-2021 at 09:42 AM.

  4. #79
    Spectacular Member Ruby Quartz Diamond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OOTCS View Post
    It's actually brought up in Widowmaker, which is a Black Widow and Hawkeye & Mockingbird crossover that takes place toward the beginning of the Heroic Age, after Clint switched back to Hawkeye.

    In the context of Clint's superhero career, it seems like Ronin is a stage where he's looking to find himself, just like the few times he tried out being Goliath, when he left the Avengers to be Two-Gun Kid's partner, when he left the Avengers to strike out on his own, when he left the Avengers to lead the Thunderbolts, then the Occupy Avengers team, and so on. Finding himself and proving himself are two big themes in Clint's life, and Ronin was a fitting persona for that era in his life (it's explained a bit more in New Avengers: The Reunion and in Avengers/Invaders #7 why he specifically uses that name/costume/weapons), just as the other personas he's tried in were appropriate for the time. He always comes back to Hawkeye in the end, but there's always room for him to explore a new facet.
    Oh okay. Thanks for the lengthy explanation. I thought fans didn't like his Ronin persona so the writers took that feedback seriously and write the Ronin part out.

  5. #80
    I hate Christmas Matternativ's Avatar
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    He was never gonna stick with Ronin but it felt appropriate for him at the time and I liked that Freefall revisited it.

    Since I kinda started reading comics via New Avengers I never had any problem with Ronin.
    I might have had a problem with it if I had been a fan of 20 years before that.

    And yeah you should read Avengers: The Reunion/Hawkeye and Mockingbird/Widowmaker.

    I might not be a huge fan of him and Bobbingbird as a couple but it's a great story that gives lots of insight into each characters psyche with fun dialogue and nice art that I like to revisit from time to time.
    Last edited by Matternativ; 02-21-2021 at 10:52 AM.
    "̶l̶̶e̶̶t̶'̶s̶̶ ̶̶h̶̶a̶̶v̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶s̶̶o̶̶m̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶f̶̶u̶̶n̶̶,̶̶ ̶̶t̶̶h̶̶i̶̶s̶̶ ̶̶b̶̶e̶̶a̶̶t̶̶ ̶̶i̶̶s̶̶ ̶̶s̶̶i̶̶c̶̶k̶̶.̶̶ ̶̶i̶̶ ̶̶w̶̶a̶̶n̶̶n̶̶a̶̶ ̶̶t̶̶a̶̶k̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶a̶̶ ̶̶r̶̶i̶̶d̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶o̶̶n̶̶ ̶̶y̶̶o̶̶u̶̶r̶̶ ̶̶d̶̶i̶̶s̶̶c̶̶o̶̶s̶̶t̶̶i̶̶c̶̶k̶̶"
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  6. #81
    Fantastic Member Sneakronicity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matternativ View Post
    He was never gonna stick with Ronin but it felt appropriate for him at the time and I liked that Freefall revisited it.

    Since I kinda started reading comics via New Avengers I never had any problem with Ronin.
    I might have had a problem with it if I had been a fan of 20 years before that.

    And yeah you should read Avengers: The Reunion/Hawkeye and Mockingbird/Widowmaker.

    I might not be a huge fan of him and Bobbingbird as a couple but it's a great story that gives lots of insight into each characters psyche with fun dialogue and nice art that I like to revisit from time to time.
    I would also add Blindspot at the end there as Hawkeye & Mockingbird/Widowmaker/Blindspot all run together in a trilogy of sorts.

  7. #82
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matternativ View Post
    He was never gonna stick with Ronin but it felt appropriate for him at the time and I liked that Freefall revisited it.

    Since I kinda started reading comics via New Avengers I never had any problem with Ronin.
    I might have had a problem with it if I had been a fan of 20 years before that.

    And yeah you should read Avengers: The Reunion/Hawkeye and Mockingbird/Widowmaker.

    I might not be a huge fan of him and Bobbingbird as a couple but it's a great story that gives lots of insight into each characters psyche with fun dialogue and nice art that I like to revisit from time to time.
    My thing against Ronin is it just doesn't represent a good period in his life and Freefall kind of exacerbates that even further.

  8. #83
    Incredible Member OOTCS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matternativ View Post
    And yeah you should read Avengers: The Reunion/Hawkeye and Mockingbird/Widowmaker.

    I might not be a huge fan of him and Bobbingbird as a couple but it's a great story that gives lots of insight into each characters psyche with fun dialogue and nice art that I like to revisit from time to time.
    I'm guessing "Bobbingbird" is a typo but I kind of like it as a nickname! Clint and Bobbi had the cheesiest, most cornball nicknames for each other in the 80s, but surprisingly, that isn't one of them ("Bobbi-bird" is, though).

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    My thing against Ronin is it just doesn't represent a good period in his life and Freefall kind of exacerbates that even further.
    I think that's part of the "it wasn't going to be around forever" thing. He had just come back from the dead after being killed (twice!) by one of his closest friends, and he finds out that his mentor is dead, too, and that half the Avengers are trying to arrest the other half, so it makes sense that he wants to distance himself from his "normal" life, because his normal life makes no sense to him. It's a good story, in my opinion.

  9. #84
    I hate Christmas Matternativ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sneakronicity View Post
    I would also add Blindspot at the end there as Hawkeye & Mockingbird/Widowmaker/Blindspot all run together in a trilogy of sorts.
    I've never considered Blind Spot really a part of that story outside of his injury thing that was caused in Widowmaker. But I co-sign the recommendation anyway since it's a cool book.
    Quote Originally Posted by OOTCS View Post
    I'm guessing "Bobbingbird" is a typo but I kind of like it as a nickname! Clint and Bobbi had the cheesiest, most cornball nicknames for each other in the 80s, but surprisingly, that isn't one of them ("Bobbi-bird" is, though).



    I think that's part of the "it wasn't going to be around forever" thing. He had just come back from the dead after being killed (twice!) by one of his closest friends, and he finds out that his mentor is dead, too, and that half the Avengers are trying to arrest the other half, so it makes sense that he wants to distance himself from his "normal" life, because his normal life makes no sense to him. It's a good story, in my opinion.
    Nah, I just call her that at times because I'm silly like that.

    Agreed on what you had to say about Ronin.
    "̶l̶̶e̶̶t̶'̶s̶̶ ̶̶h̶̶a̶̶v̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶s̶̶o̶̶m̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶f̶̶u̶̶n̶̶,̶̶ ̶̶t̶̶h̶̶i̶̶s̶̶ ̶̶b̶̶e̶̶a̶̶t̶̶ ̶̶i̶̶s̶̶ ̶̶s̶̶i̶̶c̶̶k̶̶.̶̶ ̶̶i̶̶ ̶̶w̶̶a̶̶n̶̶n̶̶a̶̶ ̶̶t̶̶a̶̶k̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶a̶̶ ̶̶r̶̶i̶̶d̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶o̶̶n̶̶ ̶̶y̶̶o̶̶u̶̶r̶̶ ̶̶d̶̶i̶̶s̶̶c̶̶o̶̶s̶̶t̶̶i̶̶c̶̶k̶̶"
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  10. #85
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OOTCS View Post
    I think that's part of the "it wasn't going to be around forever" thing. He had just come back from the dead after being killed (twice!) by one of his closest friends, and he finds out that his mentor is dead, too, and that half the Avengers are trying to arrest the other half, so it makes sense that he wants to distance himself from his "normal" life, because his normal life makes no sense to him. It's a good story, in my opinion.
    I get it made sense in context. I don't think Bendis necessarily wrote it or Clint all that well, but that's another thing. I'm just ready to move past it.

  11. #86
    The Spirits of Vengeance K7P5V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    My thing against Ronin is it just doesn't represent a good period in his life and Freefall kind of exacerbates that even further.
    Agreed. Personally, I liked the idea that Ronin could be anyone underneath...

    Last edited by K7P5V; 02-22-2021 at 04:00 AM. Reason: Added Clarification.

  12. #87
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K7P5V View Post
    Agreed. Personally, I liked the idea that Ronin could be anyone underneath...

    Well, it has been multiple different people .

  13. #88
    Spectacular Member Ruby Quartz Diamond's Avatar
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    I still haven't read New Avengers but I really like that Clint had the Ronin phase because it shows he's all 'no holds barred' when it comes to fighting his opponents and he's pretty much a killing machine but at the same time, not being a loose cannon.

  14. #89
    I hate Christmas Matternativ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruby Quartz Diamond View Post
    I still haven't read New Avengers but I really like that Clint had the Ronin phase because it shows he's all 'no holds barred' when it comes to fighting his opponents and he's pretty much a killing machine but at the same time, not being a loose cannon.
    Depends on the story and author.
    There are enough examples of him making his own life harder because he avoids being what you call a killing machine.
    But from the sounds of it you'd appreciate Ultimate Hawkeye who is basically John Wick on some serious steroids.
    "̶l̶̶e̶̶t̶'̶s̶̶ ̶̶h̶̶a̶̶v̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶s̶̶o̶̶m̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶f̶̶u̶̶n̶̶,̶̶ ̶̶t̶̶h̶̶i̶̶s̶̶ ̶̶b̶̶e̶̶a̶̶t̶̶ ̶̶i̶̶s̶̶ ̶̶s̶̶i̶̶c̶̶k̶̶.̶̶ ̶̶i̶̶ ̶̶w̶̶a̶̶n̶̶n̶̶a̶̶ ̶̶t̶̶a̶̶k̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶a̶̶ ̶̶r̶̶i̶̶d̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶o̶̶n̶̶ ̶̶y̶̶o̶̶u̶̶r̶̶ ̶̶d̶̶i̶̶s̶̶c̶̶o̶̶s̶̶t̶̶i̶̶c̶̶k̶̶"
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  15. #90
    Incredible Member OOTCS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruby Quartz Diamond View Post
    I still haven't read New Avengers but I really like that Clint had the Ronin phase because it shows he's all 'no holds barred' when it comes to fighting his opponents and he's pretty much a killing machine but at the same time, not being a loose cannon.
    In my opinion, Clint's always leaned towards the heroic side, but when he joined the Avengers, he went above and beyond (compared with everyone else) at internalizing the "no killing" rule in order to emulate Captain America, the first positive role model in his life. As the leader of the West Coast Avengers, he sanctified it to an unhealthy degree partially because he wanted to prove that he and his team were just as good as the "main" team, but also because after all that time, the rule had became part of his identity.

    As Ronin, he didn't exactly go on a killing spree like the MCU/Ults version of him did, but he did kill Skrulls in a rage at during one issue of Secret Invasion, and he later planned to kill Norman Osborn. The only other significant change to his rule was that he told Bobbi he finally truly understood why she did what she did to the Phantom Rider (even though they'd previously reconciled a few times, it could be argued that it was never a true reconciliation until that moment, since they had previously glossed over the issue instead of working through it). He still wasn't going around killing bad guys as a matter of course. But again, I think that dying and coming back to life (twice in a matter of months!) will probably mess with your idea of what life and death really are, anyway.

    Since returning to Hawkeye, Clint's been pretty staunch about not killing (let's pretend Civil War II never happened for everyone's sake, shall we?), but maybe a little bit less judgmental when it comes to other people doing it. (Actually, the fact that he took out a character's eye and blew up a warehouse full of Hydra guys in the most recent BW issue without any seeming second thoughts was kind of disturbing, especially considering the fact that his taking Crossfire's eye in Hawk & Mock was the direct action that led to his identity crisis and their breakup over there.)

    I'd love to see a run where they explore what exactly he thinks about this rule these days, how being dead has affected his thoughts on it, whether he considers it an Avengers rule or a personal rule or if he expects all superheroes to go by it, and so on.

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