Pro Wrestling! (For Everything WWE, Impact, Indies, AEW, & Japan !) 2021

[choptop]

deathmatch are actually pretty fun

[SUPERECWFAN1]

there was actually a little bit of build but this is an xample of where they didn't do things the way you wanted and for you that means it was wrong so you'll use it as evidence that the booking is horrible(not to mention complain endlessly).

i will admit is tk was wrong to mention the cagematch website as an xample of fan feedback on wrestling shows. the only fan feedback data that matters is comments your facebook groups with bitchoff, russo etc
?

2 weeks at best of build possibly. But wanna know why me and others complained ? Because it did JACK for ticket sales and did JACK much on cable.


The reason it’s brought up by me is AEW has a number of main event stars in the company. 2 of its biggest home grown stars are MJF and Kenny Omega. The 2 men had never faced each other before and was a pure f’n money program.

The type of money program you can spend a month or 2 selling on Dynamite and hooking an audience to buy into. You sell possibly more tickets to shows as you do this money program and sell a big PPV on it.

Because again…these guys are your home grown stars. As one writer pointed out then , you’re not gonna get that 1st ever match hype back. And the opportunity to sell more tickets etc is gone from that.

You seem to miss this part. So that is why me and some complain.

[BigLbo]

With as deep as the AEW roster is, I see no reason they cannot have trios workrate bangers on a consistent basis. That is what I want out of the Trios belts and I enjoy it being the highlight of Rampage each week. Same with the Lucha matches on Rampage.

Jericho and Sammy break up angle ... Again? Ugh ... It pains me as a Jerichoholic but he needs a vacation.

Harley Cameron is an absolutely perfect fit with Saraya. Those two are going to be an absolute over-the-top shit show together and my body is ready. Bring it on!

Sydal: "I'm gonna kill you!" Danhausen: "Disqualified!" Yuta: "Kiss my ass." *Dead*

Action needs matching gear with Top Flight ... I love them together.

They’ve been building most of these matches for quite some time with the 8-man the obvious shift due to Omega.

Pumped for World's End.

Max's article in the Tribune screams to me that a) he needs a break, and b) he's dropping the title tomorrow.

So the seeds planted between Swerve & Joe and Jay & Joe make sense as possible feuds. Time to cut Mox for a vacation, too, IMHO. Then we can enjoy Jay, Swerve, and Joe eating scenery with some Hangman thrown in there.

i'm sure i'm in the minority but i'm going to miss qtv. harley is great but i didn't understand that promo last week at all and missed the one from rampage.

deathmatch are actually pretty fun

jacob fatu is going to need to put some boots on, or at least shoes.

[BigLbo]

2 weeks at best of build possibly. But wanna know why me and others complained ? Because it did JACK for ticket sales and did JACK much on cable.


The reason it’s brought up by me is AEW has a number of main event stars in the company. 2 of its biggest home grown stars are MJF and Kenny Omega. The 2 men had never faced each other before and was a pure f’n money program.

The type of money program you can spend a month or 2 selling on Dynamite and hooking an audience to buy into. You sell possibly more tickets to shows as you do this money program and sell a big PPV on it.

Because again…these guys are your home grown stars. As one writer pointed out then , you’re not gonna get that 1st ever match hype back. And the opportunity to sell more tickets etc is gone from that.

You seem to miss this part. So that is why me and some complain.

that's just your fantasy booking though, full gear did well on ppv and there's no evidence mjf vs omega would've done a bigger number or that a mjf vs omega rematch won't do just as well as a first time match would've done. so why keep crying about it or worse use it as evidence when there's no way of knowing??

[SUPERECWFAN1]

that's just your fantasy booking though, full gear did well on ppv and there's no evidence mjf vs omega would've done a bigger number or that a mjf vs omega rematch won't do just as well as a first time match would've done. so why keep crying about it or worse use it as evidence when there's no way of knowing??

That’s the thing…it’s not me doing fantasy…it’s just logical booking. You have 2 of your big stars in your company. What makes more sense…throwing an announced match on free tv that didn’t sell tickets ? Or ya know…building that to draw money ?

If we’re going on history here…Tony did an Eric Bischoff move. But at least Bischoff had the Georgia Dome packed. He blew tons of PPV money though with Goldberg/Hogan.


A rematch will do decent I’m sure. But the big selling point of these 2 never facing each other before is gone. That could have been big as a selling point.

[BeastieRunner]

It's funny you call out "WWE Drones" but never AEW Drones. Both sides have obnoxious fans who think their favorite company can do no wrong.

AEW does just as much bad humor sports entertainment as WWE their fans just turn a blind eye to it to appear superior. The real sports feel presentation they claim to have is hampered by Orange Cassidy, Danhausen, lame frat boy humor from the Acclaimed and Bullet Club Gold, Toni Storm, MJF doing lame comedy skits with Adam Cole and Kangaroo Kicks during matches, the Dinner Debonair segment, Mimosa Mayhem matches, MJF literally singing old showtunes for 10 minutes, Jeff Jarrett and Team TNA, moronic refs, Roderick Strong being reduced to a one note joke whose only defining characteristic is screaming people's names, 1 legged MJF who already wrestled beating healthy cheating Jay White, Abadon, masked Scooby-Doo villains doing elaborate attacks, and other goofy shit. These are all things Vince McMahon or Russo would've loved but since they aren't behind them the IWC has to pretend they're great.

Most AEW storylines boil down to "is X my friend anymore?" pretty much every story with the Elite is like that, Willow Nightingale's stories are always about friendship, MJF and Cole, Jericho and Sammy, Roderick and Adam, Saraya and Ruby, Team TNA and Mark Briscoe, Kingston and Moxley, Orange Cassidy and Rocky Romero, Swerve and Keith, Assboys and Daddy Ass, Skye Blue and Statlander, Best Friends and Wheeler Yuta, Jericho and Omega and Samoa Joe and MJF. That's just off the top of my head and I'm sure Mariah May and Toni Storm is heading in that direction too just give Booker of the Year some time to cook.

Most matches end in predictable brawls and they pick and choose when to be realistic. Jay White was allowed to steal MJF's belt for reasons but once Hook simply walked out to ringside to watch Orange's back, didn't even hit anyone but got ejected from not only ringside but the building entirely. It's a huge plot hole that the Devil and his (?) goons are allowed in the building and are able to win championships despite being unknown in kayfabe. Why would Tony allow that? At least address it on the show instead of acting like anyone would realistically allow masked thugs who attack employees and whose identities are unknown to participate in your show.

Don't see many Elite Beaters in this thread.

They're just as annoying, IMHO.

As stated before and in my post, AEW's misfires are the bad WWE lite schitck. Kinda already said that, and I am glad when they get away from that.

OC is a worker as much as anybody. His schtick stays in the ring and he delivers matches. See Danhausen's comment below.

Danhausen seems to be a take it or leave act amongst AEW fans. I've enjoyed his wrestling presentation BUT he's had two freak injuries in a row. He's a gimmick man. He's a 4th wall breaker and makes obscure 1% wrestling jokes. You can have gimmicks in wrestling that don't make it WWE lite. OC and Danhausen would never be in WWE due to their style of gimmicks. They're different. You should check out his Christopher Massachusetts dig on TK, "Tony made an announcement... About an announcement." Lol, killed me. Being able to laugh at yourself and that self-depricating humor, roasting the owner that way, was something you won't see in the WWE. Although, HHH might bring that back, who knows. Danhausen and OC's bad comedy works for me because they acknowledge wrestling can be dumb and stupid and weird and awesome all at the same time.

Slapnuts sucks, no argument there.

I don't see frat boy humor in the Acclaimed ... I see EDGELORD in Caster's presentation with his lyrics. Billy does the cringe stuff IMHO. I would be happy to see the rapper gimmick change and/or see Bowens go on a singles run. I think he's the future mega star of that group.

BCG? That's what they did in New Japan. Jay's promos have been fire lately. I'm not a fan of them but have to disagree with you because Cardblade and psycho Jay promos have been the rare highlights from Collision until about 7ish weeks ago. Juice is and will always be annoying to me. Gunn Club for better with Jay and Juice being gone. iMHO keep juice away from them.

The Cole/MJF buddy stuff was great and something I remember seeing in WCW with the likes of Jericho, Eddie, Hall, and Syxx at times. It's the devil mystery attacker shit that came off like WWE lite. Masked men attack!!! Is a WWE thing that I would be happy to never see again. Poor Joe has to endure ninjas again ... Lol ... Ugh. That man deserves a run for that, keeping All In going by talking Charmin Made Punk into staying, and just being an all around legend.

I think the Cole injury messed the timing of the story, so the pivot has been a major misfire. I know I've stated that I'm done with face MJF and the Devil/Cole stuff. It's stale.

The Kangaroo Kick was a deep cut reference to the first and most famous Jewish wrestler, the Hebrew Hercules ... Abe Coleman. Which Corny and a few other wrestling historians enjoyed the hell out of it. He didn't just pull it for the laughs ... Those deep cuts and continuity and respect for the past is something the puro mark in me loves about AEW. WWE shit on that for years but maybe Hunter will bring that back. MJF should be, to use the modern vernacular, given his flowers for the didactic story he gave that move. The All In pop would agree.

Blind refs has been a thing in wrestling since... Forever? Odd criticism there but okay?? AEW & WWE refs > red shoes, puro, and Lucha refs any day of the week.

Strong 100% disagree. He just became a crazy conspiracy theorist and has be on the money the last few weeks. Did you not watch the Always Sunny board show and the match?? I mean ... How is that a one note joke?? I need a better explanation on that one.

Super MJF pissed me off. Already talked about that. Don't feel like typing about that again ... Please find my previous post after the PPV. Again, another WWE lite thing to do ... Super Cena, Hulk Hogan, Ultimate Warrior ... Seen it. WWE did it better. Hated it as a kid (I grew up on NWA South, Gorgeous George, Buckland, the Poffolof family, etc. Randy was our guy), hate it as an adult, hate the carbon copy Hulk Up to do the 5 moves of doom from everybody but Undertaker.

Abadon is not something you would see in WWE. Blood spewing, gothic, work rate non-binary wrestler. Something different. I enjoy their work and the story with Julia and Skye. Over-the-top gimmicks is wrestling... I'm starting to think you're missing the point of the comparison I made.

AEW is faction heavy, gangwar, is that hoss in my stable? Everyone who's anyone is in a group. It's about the relationships of each person. Again, not a WWE thing. They only recently started to go faction heavy in WWE, right? In puro, it's easy to build and start stories that way. Which is why both AEW & WWE are doing it. I'm a sucker of "Jimmy knocked my Pepsi over" starts to wrestling series. It's a weird reductive take (kinda like the refs earlier) but sure, I'll give you that. Works for me. How is that bad booking?

If a story foreshadows and delivers the goods on what you think is going to happen ... That is bad? I'd disagree with that. Job well done. Swerving to swerve makes for a different set of predictable patterns (GRR Martin kills another character, I am shocked /sarcasm) and creates plot armor later. Now a swerve with some setup from time to time, is great (Batista staring at Hunter's title comes to mind).

Wrestling presentation, sports presentation, does not mean realistic. If that were the case, we'd see a shit ton of hammerlock subs in about 3 seconds. We'd see Bart Gunns and Daniel Puders. That would be boring. Wrestling is an art form that requires some suspension of disbelief because long ass, entertaining fights are few and far between in combat sports. A lot of people enjoy seeing great matches on TV. I was literally at the sports bar a week or so ago and people were booing Punk and Rollins yammering ... They wanted a fight. Promos have their place but for a very long time, wrestling was secondary to WWE. Talk is boring 90% of the time, punch each other already!

I'm not huge of authority figures but AEW sorely needs to address said authority plot holes you mentioned. But again, that's a WWE lite thing and just shouldn't be things they are doing. And it better not be TK.

If you don't like something, don't watch? You know? Plenty of great wrestling to find right now ... Even in WWE.

I recently as tonight critiqued AEW. So ... Not sure what your point was about that?

[BigLbo]

That’s the thing…it’s not me doing fantasy…it’s just logical booking. You have 2 of your big stars in your company. What makes more sense…throwing an announced match on free tv that didn’t sell tickets ? Or ya know…building that to draw money ?

If we’re going on history here…Tony did an Eric Bischoff move. But at least Bischoff had the Georgia Dome packed. He blew tons of PPV money though with Goldberg/Hogan.


A rematch will do decent I’m sure. But the big selling point of these 2 never facing each other before is gone. That could have been big as a selling point.

see what i mean, you don't understand your theory is just that, a theory aka fantasy booking. fantasy booking can be based on logic but it's still fantasy booking.

maybe it would've drawn an xtra 10,000 buys, maybe it wouldn't have. we'll never know so get over it and move on.

[BeastieRunner]

That’s the thing…it’s not me doing fantasy…it’s just logical booking. You have 2 of your big stars in your company. What makes more sense…throwing an announced match on free tv that didn’t sell tickets ? Or ya know…building that to draw money ?

If we’re going on history here…Tony did an Eric Bischoff move. But at least Bischoff had the Georgia Dome packed. He blew tons of PPV money though with Goldberg/Hogan.


A rematch will do decent I’m sure. But the big selling point of these 2 never facing each other before is gone. That could have been big as a selling point.

Omega was rushing those big matches to put guys over because of his health.

He wanted to get the rubs to MJF and Page ASAP due to health.

He said he retreated to tag stuff to lessen the load but now ...

He might be done forever.

There was never going to be big builds due to that. It just wasn't physically possible. I think that particular example is abad one to point to give aways. Same with Jade giving the run to Stat on her way out.

There's better free TV examples than those because those had outside circumstances dictate the quickness.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

see what i mean, you don't understand your theory is just that, a theory aka fantasy booking. fantasy booking can be based on logic but it's still fantasy booking.

maybe it would've drawn an xtra 10,000 buys, maybe it wouldn't have. we'll never know so get over it and move on.

A hot angle or program doesn’t just effect a PPV buyrate. The build can also sell tickets to shows for that clash. It’s about business, not fantasy as you keep projecting here.

This is a common sense business move. You wanna draw money and no money was made from that 1st MJF/Omega match.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Omega was rushing those big matches to put guys over because of his health.

He wanted to get the rubs to MJF and Page ASAP due to health.

He said he retreated to tag stuff to lessen the load but now ...

He might be done forever.

There was never going to be big builds due to that. It just wasn't physically possible.

This is why Tony should have pumped the brakes here. He was in a rush to do tag team matches but Tony should have had his eyes on the big prize.

Give Omega a month off from work during summer of 2023. Build this last big program and sell it.

This actually makes AEW look even worse knowing Omega was on the clock and they could have done a common sense deal.

[BeastieRunner]

This is why Tony should have pumped the brakes here. He was in a rush to do tag team matches but Tony should have had his eyes on the big prize.

Give Omega a month off from work during summer of 2023. Build this last big program and sell it.

This actually makes AEW look even worse knowing Omega was on the clock and they could have done a common sense deal.

I edited my post to add

I think that particular example is abad one to point to give aways. Same with Jade giving the run to Stat on her way out.

There's better free TV examples than those because those had outside circumstances dictate the quickness.

I'm pretty sure has they done a long build, Omega wouldn't be able to finish the series just like watch just happened with the tag team story this month.

Omega came to work, said I need to do this now, and they went for it. Chronic back pain is not something you can plan for or around. Some days are amazing, most are bad.

If it casts TK in a bad light, then it should Omega as well.

It just wasn't something that was possible. It's not a video game. Back shit is crazy. I would not wish that on my worst enemy.

AEW made crazy money on PPVs this year... Don't think Omega pops them higher because the Bucks and Omega have been the lowest segments ratings in AEW more often than not.

And then he got diverticulitis.

[BigLbo]

A hot angle or program doesn’t just effect a PPV buyrate. The build can also sell tickets to shows for that clash. It’s about business, not fantasy as you keep projecting here.

This is a common sense business move. You wanna draw money and no money was made from that 1st MJF/Omega match.

until you've run a successful wrestling business it's fantasy.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

until you've run a successful wrestling business it's fantasy.

Til you can actually give me sound reasoning on this without going “it’s fantasy…” to me then nah.

I’ll give Beastie some props here on this one. He gave a reason why the match was thrown together so fast. I’ll examine more…

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I edited my post to add

I'm pretty sure has they done a long build, Omega wouldn't be able to finish the series just like watch just happened with the tag team story this month.

Omega came to work, said I need to do this now, and they went for it. Chronic back pain is not something you can plan for or around. Some days are amazing, most are bad.

If it casts TK in a bad light, then it should Omega as well.

It just wasn't something that was possible. It's not a video game. Back shit is crazy. I would not wish that on my worst enemy.

AEW made crazy money on PPVs this year... Don't think Omega pops them higher because the Bucks and Omega have been the lowest segments ratings in AEW more often than not.

And then he got diverticulitis.

It’s a shame this had to happen to him and I’d hate it would end his career.

I’d have approached it as …don’t let them get in ring til the PPV. Just build it off promos and the 2 men having a couple confrontations that are broken up. You do a LA Knight/Roman contract signing one week. You could possibly have them in a tag match situation.

But the idea is to lighten Kenny’s load and get him towards the PPV to finish it.

It would have worked and as I said a good serious program with those 2 could have done good money. I think fans as a whole would accept Omega more alone than with Bucks to draw people in.

[BeastieRunner]

Til you can actually give me sound reasoning on this without going “it’s fantasy…” to me then nah.

I’ll give Beastie some props here on this one. He gave a reason why the match was thrown together so fast. I’ll examine more…

I don't think Omega was being open about how bad his back was, let alone stomach.

We've seen countless wrestlers do that ...

Omega pivoting into an injured Cole spot is a great story but I just don't think it was going to be possible.

There's other gimmes like Vikingo, Sabu,, etc. that are better examples of TK's rush tendency.

All bookers have good and bad tendencies. I think the worst thing about a rushes program is I get a free PPV match on TV.