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  1. #1261
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garazza View Post
    To me, Miles was always supposed to be Spider-Man. Jon, on the other hand, has always been and always will be Jon Kent. Calling Jon Superman feels like calling Dick Grayson Batman. They can take on their father figure's mantle, sure, but they will never actually be the Superman and Batman, so don't call them that.

    I'd feel infinitely more represented if Jon was bi and a kid, especially when I was bi and a kid, and Jon being Superman actively takes away from that representation. The headline should be "Jon Kent is bisexual" but the headline has consistently been "Superman is bisexual" and like I said, Jon is not Superman to me.

    Jon is already cemented in Superman's legacy. Being the son of Superman and Lois Lane is a high-profile enough position, to me at least, it's functionally a mantle on the level of Superman itself so making him bisexual without aging him up and making him Superman would've had the exact same effect as creating Miles.
    I'd argue that based off Jurgens' words-- "Jon is the future of the Superman franchise" (I'm paraphrasing)-- he was always going to be Superman in much the same way as Miles. How you view Jurgens' words is up to you, but given the state of Superman at the time of Jon's creation and now, I don't think it was a far leap to think that DC had their eye on him being Superman in the here and now at some point.

    And in terms of Jon not being able to actively represent bi kids? You're simply not going to please everyone, but you can try to cast the widest net possible, and Jon being a bi Superman as opposed to any lesser IP is for sure the widest net available to him and within his IP. In comics and pop culture the Superman name is among the biggest stages there is. So unfortunately he's not going to be able to represent the fairly specific age group you'd like, but the trade off is having a demographic see themselves in the biggest superhero on the planet.

    Him being Lois and Clark's son cannot be understated, but it will always come second to the Superman name, and because of that it's not nearly on the same level of recognition as Miles as Spider-Man. Him being Lois and Clark's son legitimizes and enhances him taking over the Superman name. Remember Kenan Kong? We literally had a person of color go by Superman in the main continuity with their very own book...yet STILL didn't hit as hard as Jon taking over and coming out as bi. And similarly Jon being created got itself some attention, but only in comic circles. My mom couldn't tell you who Jon was last year. But LOIS AND CLARK'S SON BECOMES THE NEW SUPERMAN AND IS BI did the trick.

    Jon brings the legitimacy by being their son, but without the name he's obscure. Add the two together and there's a chance he becomes a household name before Damian (who still has to contend with three other identical brothers and the fact that people just sort of homogenize them all together).
    "Mark my words! This drill will open a hole in the universe. And that hole will become a path for those that follow after us. The dreams of those who have fallen. The hopes of those who will follow. Those two sets of dreams weave together into a double helix, drilling a path towards tomorrow. THAT's Tengen Toppa! THAT'S Gurren Lagann! MY DRILL IS THE DRILL THAT CREATES THE HEAVENS!" - The Digger

    We walk on the path to Secher Nbiw. Though hard fought, we walk the Golden Path.

  2. #1262
    Just Call Me Gar garazza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Nobody would care about “Jon Kent” being bisexual. Obviously you would but the general public wouldn’t care about “Superboy is bi, no the other Superboy”. The excitement is totally that it’s “Superman” who is bi (after all if it was just seeing queer men in a book that got people buying or interested, Action would be outselling SSOKE since that has more queer people in it than SSOKE does).
    I buy comics. The general public doesn't. The Death of Superman got wide-spread media attention, but it didn't increase sales. Neither will SSoK. By all accounts, AC should be selling well, but DC isn't trotting out PKJ in front of Anderson Cooper. Worse still, AC has all the right ingredients to achieve similar success to SSoK. PKJ is an active duty service member in the US military and Americans cobble that up, so if a guy like that can write a team full of queer characters lead by the actual Superman, then we would've achieved what right-wing conservative reactionaries would've called "the future that liberals want."

    All that said, the pitch with Jon from Day 1 per Jurgens is that he’s “the future”. He was always going to be Superman. Feel free to hate on Taylor though, I certainly can’t disagree with any complaints about him
    If he was ever going to be Superman, it should've been in twenty years. And I don't like hating writers I used to like, but as time goes on, I've found Taylor deserves at least 90% of the criticism that gets leveled at him.

  3. #1263
    Astonishing Member Blue22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garazza View Post
    If he was ever going to be Superman, it should've been in twenty years. And I don't like hating writers I used to like, but as time goes on, I've found Taylor deserves at least 90% of the criticism that gets leveled at him.
    Nah. I still absolutely adore Taylor's work and I'm more than happy to sing his praises whenever I can and support his other stuff. Hell, the scene with Jon and Jay actually becoming a thing was the one time I didn't really have anything in SoKE to complain about.

    But I still can't help but be disappointed. It's been clear for a while that the fake Jon is here to stay so I've tried to warm up to him. I've tried to at least not be annoyed out of my mind every time I even see him. Especially since one of my favorite writers is currently writing for him. But damn...This book has actually made me dislike the imposter even more than I did when he was under Bendis. Actually putting him in the role of Superman has really made me realize...there is absolutely nothing special about this guy.

    He's certainly written better. But now he's become even more boring. He's just like Tim Drake now. A character I used to enjoy reading, years ago, but now the only thing about them that's worth any fanfare is the fact that they're bi. And that's wonderful and all. You'll never hear me complain about representation for anyone. Especially since male bisexuality is something that people still like to pretend doesn't exist...but Tim and fake Jon both still suck. That didn't really change just because they're out now. Tim in particular is still as superfluous and directionless as he's been since the New 52 began. The girl who used to only be known as his love interest and "the Robin who failed" has more going on right now. Being "the bi Superman" or "the Robin who's vaguely not straight" should not be their defining things.

    I think they reeeeeeally got the pitches for Jon and Clark mixed up. Clark should have been the one staying on earth, doing his typical thing in Metropolis and fighting social injustices on earth. While Jon should have been the one working with the Authority (especially since he's already got a small history with Manchester Black) and going off into space to be some War World freedom fighter. Sure it'd still suck because it's the imposter, but at least he'd be...different. As it stands now, he's just....Clark. Just younger Clark. Doing all the same **** Clark typically could/would do. The only difference is that he's into guys with tacky dye jobs. He's an even bigger clone than Clark's actual clone.

    I am well aware of what a big deal Superman (or...the guy currently calling himself Superman) coming out of the closet is and hats off to Taylor for being the one to take that big of a step. But man...he's still not really doing much to make Jon's story feel endearing, unique, or....anything besides basic. SoKE isn't a bad book, but even without my bias glasses on, it's one of his weakest. Especially when compared to his X-men Red or his current Nightwing run, both of which have been fucking stellar (though....he's kinda making me dislike the DickBabs ship even more than I dislike the fake Jon) and both of which do a better job of conveying the messages it feels like he's trying to convey through SoKE. This is the dude who made me see Jean Grey as more than "that psychic X-Chick who's always dead". She went from being one of my least favorite mainstream X-Men ever, to being one of my favorites. Was kinda hoping he could at least make me tolerate the current Jon.
    Last edited by Blue22; 11-16-2021 at 04:38 PM.

  4. #1264
    Just Call Me Gar garazza's Avatar
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    Looks like I missed a few Bogdanovic WIPs.

    https://twitter.com/VikBogdanovic/st...570115/photo/1



    https://twitter.com/VikBogdanovic/st...681994/photo/1



    https://twitter.com/VikBogdanovic/st...556677/photo/1



    Vik refers to the creatures in the first pic as Kryptonian Cataphants, so if those are real things, let us now.

    Whoever guessed Dinosaur Island, I think they were on the money.

  5. #1265
    Just Call Me Gar garazza's Avatar
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    Jon chilling with the chickenhawk above directly precedes Damian getting chased by an alien.

  6. #1266
    Astonishing Member Blue22's Avatar
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    by Kharpa on devianart

  7. #1267
    Astonishing Member Journey's Avatar
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    Thats lovely.

  8. #1268
    Extraordinary Member Primal Slayer's Avatar
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    Jon (and the family) had a good outting in todays YJ episode.

  9. #1269
    Astonishing Member Blue22's Avatar
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    They really did. It was wonderful. Once again, YJ giving me things I wish the comics had given us. Jon actually knowing Conner and his grandparents BEFORE he died.

    I'm still skeptical because I don't like how this show handles time skips, but man this episode got me wanting to see their take on Super Sons lol

    Though I don't know how I feel about Jon being older than Damian. Even if it does only seem to be by like a year.




    Look at this little man. Old enough to talk (pretty well actually) and have the concept of death explained to him, but still shits on the ceiling XD

  10. #1270
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue22 View Post
    They really did. It was wonderful. Once again, YJ giving me things I wish the comics had given us. Jon actually knowing Conner and his grandparents BEFORE he died.

    I'm still skeptical because I don't like how this show handles time skips, but man this episode got me wanting to see their take on Super Sons lol

    Though I don't know how I feel about Jon being older than Damian. Even if it does only seem to be by like a year.




    Look at this little man. Old enough to talk (pretty well actually) and have the concept of death explained to him, but still shits on the ceiling XD
    Yeah I think Connor is gone for good. This is a lot more then the mourning of Artemis fake death.

  11. #1271
    Astonishing Member Blue22's Avatar
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    I'm still kinda/sorta thinking the Legion saved him. Especially since we haven't really seen them since his death.

  12. #1272
    Extraordinary Member Primal Slayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue22 View Post
    I'm still kinda/sorta thinking the Legion saved him. Especially since we haven't really seen them since his death.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blue22 View Post
    They really did. It was wonderful. Once again, YJ giving me things I wish the comics had given us. Jon actually knowing Conner and his grandparents BEFORE he died.

    I'm still skeptical because I don't like how this show handles time skips, but man this episode got me wanting to see their take on Super Sons lol
    I pray they dont do Super Sons no time soon. They have introduced and skipped over so many characters that it'd already annoy me more than I am with the lack of Wonders.

  13. #1273
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue22 View Post
    I'm still kinda/sorta thinking the Legion saved him. Especially since we haven't really seen them since his death.
    Until we see the Legion actually say "Man, we really screwed up by not saving Superboy," I'm going to assume he's alive too.

    It was nice to see more Lois as well and Clark kicking himself for the one thing some people still won't let go about his behavior in season 1.

  14. #1274
    Astonishing Member Blue22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primal Slayer View Post
    I pray they dont do Super Sons no time soon. They have introduced and skipped over so many characters that it'd already annoy me more than I am with the lack of Wonders.
    I'm mostly in the same boat. I've been saying for a while now that if we do get them, I don't want it to be for a LONG time. But I also know myself well enough to get hype as ****, regardless of when/if it happens lol

  15. #1275
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue22 View Post
    I'm still kinda/sorta thinking the Legion saved him. Especially since we haven't really seen them since his death.
    Possibly if the season ends and we don’t get answer then he’s Proably gone.

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