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  1. #466
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Ah! yes,growing and losing old friends..such is life.Honestly though,Damian might just be processing what happened and coming to terms with it.
    "I swear to devote my life to the destruction of piracy, greed, cruelty and injustice! And my sons, and their sons, shall follow me!"

  2. #467
    Just Call Me Gar garazza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue22 View Post
    Eh. I remember quitting Marvel because of what happened to the X-Men during that whole "Inhumans are the new Mutants" phase. I ended up missing out on some good books that were unrelated to all that. Unless Superman's the only DC thing you read, I wouldn't recommend quitting, cold turkey, over Jon. Just quit the Superman stuff (and Justice League since the poor kid is apparently going back to the man who killed him).

    Robin, Wonder Girl, Flash, and Nightwing are all really good (in fact, I'd say this is the best Nightwing's been in a long time). Static's off to an amazing start. Titans Academy is....odd....but worth reading. Even if the fight to save Jon is a losing one, we still got options in the meantime lol
    I have pretty narrow interests. I've been boycotting the Superbooks since Bendis. Out of all the Batfamily, I'm only reading Robin. I love the Batfamily as a concept, but I don't like the individual characters enough to read their solo books. I might pick up a Tim book if DC decides to do right by him and bring back the vibe he had pre-n52. I'm glad Dick fans have a book to be excited about, but I wouldn't read Nightwing, even on a good day.

    I don't care about the Green Lantern, Flash, or Wonder Woman. I have nothing against them as I haven't read much of them, but they just don't interest me in the same way other characters do. The only other character I'd remotely be interested in is Green Arrow and he's pretty marginalized and I've only recently come to like him, but I have no intention of giving Bendis' take on the character a chance after all the duds he's written.

    I'm on the fence about picking up Jackson Hyde's book because on the one hand I want to support a book with a queer lead character and on the other hand, it should called Aqualad, not Aquaman. I've made my feelings known about that kind of difference with my statements about Jon Kent as Superboy as opposed to Superman. I want to like Teen Titans, but DC hasn't been putting a TT book I want to read since they forced Ben Percy off the book. I could give Milestone chance, but I've never been one to be an early adopter. I'll wait and see how it turns out.

    To give you an idea how narrow my interests actually are, over at Marvel, I love the Champions, but I only care about Sam Alexander, I wouldn't pick up a Miles or Kamala solo. I don't care about large swaths of the Marvel universe in the same way I don't care about certain parts of the DC universe, but I could jump on the Hulk and Venom train since the conductors are switching roles. Plain and simply, DC isn't publishing anything I really want to read, besides Robin, and that book is in dangerous proximity to the very thing that's nearly turned me away from the company.

  3. #468
    Extraordinary Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Yeah, my interests for DC have narrowed as well. When Rebirth happened, I was reading most books. But about 2 years into it, there was a massive tone change to most series, which killed my interest in a lot of them. When Bendis came on, I gave his first couple of issues a go, as I had never read his stuff before. Needless to say, I avoid anything he's touched now. Which includes the Super line and Justice League.

    Now, I follow stuff that Jason Todd is in (no more solo, but boy is he getting a lot appearances), Robin (the Damian Robin), Titans Academy, and the Crush book for Lobo. And Super Sons (under Tomasi) limited series whenever those pop up.

    But yeah, I agree that this "Jon" that DC is slapping into the Justice League, has about nothing in common with the 10-11 year old that we were shown before Bendis came along, except the name. Its like seeing one of those awful fanfics that have a character as the main protagonist, but other than the name, and sometimes the appearance, is basically a completely different person, and then making it canonical.

  4. #469
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    Quote Originally Posted by oneveryfineday View Post
    I donít mean this as an argument, I just want to present why I think DC created a new gen of characters:

    1) More focus on diversity. Using old legacies will give you a predominantly white, straight line-up, which isnít a change from the OG characters. You can racebend them, but such moves are controversial and less meaningful compared to promoting characters who are already created to be diverse in the first place. Helps synergize appearances across media too. With the exception of Jon, all the members on the Future State Justice League are POC, LGBT+, or both.

    2) Creating a new character is easier than rebooting an established one to fit the companyís direction since the latter leads to fan backlash. It wouldnít make sense to reboot Donna with Brazilian lore, would it? Itís also easier to build a new character from the ground up. Unlike Conner, whoís associated with YJ, TT, has love interests, etc, Jon is still a blank slate to DC. Itís not like he had a mission statement before or any connections outside his parents and Damian.

    3) The new characters are conceived specifically to be inheritors of the mantle rather than sidekicks or ancillary characters, so they could stand as their own IP.

    Those are my thoughts on it anyway.
    This all makes sense. There's nothing wrong with creating a more diverse Justice League, but the problem is Jon doesn't qualify for this in any way. He's a white, seemingly straight, male. There is no reason to push him the way these other new characters are being pushed. Conner and Kara frankly fit the role just as well if they want a white character, if not better, and if increasing diversity was the important factor here, than frankly having POC Superman is a powerful statement worth making. Superman is portrayed as a symbol to humanity in a way most other superheroes aren't. Making a POC character that symbol would have a lot of meaning and they should have gone for that.

    Using Jon is a wasted opportunity and seems to generally just piss his fanbase off. It was a bad choice.
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  5. #470
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    Do you guys think Jon will get powers at the end of the season? I don’t want him anxious angry and jealous all the time, he might turn into the grandfather.

  6. #471
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    Do you guys think Jon will get powers at the end of the season? I don’t want him anxious angry and jealous all the time, he might turn into the grandfather.
    where exactly was jon anxious or jealous in the season?He was releaved that he didn't have powers.
    "I swear to devote my life to the destruction of piracy, greed, cruelty and injustice! And my sons, and their sons, shall follow me!"

  7. #472
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    Yeah, my interests for DC have narrowed as well. When Rebirth happened, I was reading most books. But about 2 years into it, there was a massive tone change to most series, which killed my interest in a lot of them. When Bendis came on, I gave his first couple of issues a go, as I had never read his stuff before. Needless to say, I avoid anything he's touched now. Which includes the Super line and Justice League.

    Now, I follow stuff that Jason Todd is in (no more solo, but boy is he getting a lot appearances), Robin (the Damian Robin), Titans Academy, and the Crush book for Lobo. And Super Sons (under Tomasi) limited series whenever those pop up.

    But yeah, I agree that this "Jon" that DC is slapping into the Justice League, has about nothing in common with the 10-11 year old that we were shown before Bendis came along, except the name. Its like seeing one of those awful fanfics that have a character as the main protagonist, but other than the name, and sometimes the appearance, is basically a completely different person, and then making it canonical.
    We don't actually know that he's joining the League do we? The solicit for September mentions them having new members (which makes sense as both Clark and Barry will be out) but not who. Aren't we just assuming that Jon and Wally will be joining?
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  8. #473
    Spectacular Member oneveryfineday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    This all makes sense. There's nothing wrong with creating a more diverse Justice League, but the problem is Jon doesn't qualify for this in any way. He's a white, seemingly straight, male. There is no reason to push him the way these other new characters are being pushed. Conner and Kara frankly fit the role just as well if they want a white character, if not better, and if increasing diversity was the important factor here, than frankly having POC Superman is a powerful statement worth making. Superman is portrayed as a symbol to humanity in a way most other superheroes aren't. Making a POC character that symbol would have a lot of meaning and they should have gone for that.

    Using Jon is a wasted opportunity and seems to generally just piss his fanbase off. It was a bad choice.
    Yeah, Jon doesn't qualify for point 1, he's basically the token straight white guy of the group. I think my other points still stand regarding him as a blank slate character compared to Kara and Conner though. I'd love it if DC made Jon bi, but the cynical side of me says they won't make a queer Superman.
    Last edited by oneveryfineday; 07-06-2021 at 06:04 PM.

  9. #474
    Spectacular Member oneveryfineday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    We don't actually know that he's joining the League do we? The solicit for September mentions them having new members (which makes sense as both Clark and Barry will be out) but not who. Aren't we just assuming that Jon and Wally will be joining?
    Jon was in the Justice League in Future State, and in the current Action Comics Batman talks about recruiting Jon for the League. Seems to line up.

  10. #475
    Extraordinary Member sifighter's Avatar
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    Alright so dumb question time, itís dumb because I know people wonít like it anyway, but what if they retconned/introduced the idea of why Clark looks older (grey temples) is because even though he couldnít effect the timeline by bringing the young version of Jon back he instead went back in time and lived out those missing years with Jon and then returned him as he was supposed to in the Bendis run to close the time loop? Obviously bring Lois because not doing so would be cruel to her.

    Because we might not get kid Jon back in that scenario but heíd still have grown up with his parents.
    Last edited by sifighter; 06-20-2021 at 06:39 AM.
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  11. #476
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    I'm fairly certain it's the cellular breakdown Batman was talking about in Action 1030. Cellular breakdown is the reason anyone gets old and why gray hairs happen.


    ____________

    I was wonder something though: if the Justice League has Superman more or less forced out (or they can't stand by him) over the War World fragment issue....what are they going to do when it comes out that Jon is working with an underground news organization and upsetting a lot of powerful people? These powerful people are likely in legit positions as far as the public eye goes, so Jon potentially making moves against them and whatever system of power the have backing them could land the JL in some hot water.

    The injection of new blood into the JL may be what allows them to be cool with Jon's actions where the old guard wasn't with Clark? I know the theme of "justice for who" is going to be big in Bendis' run, and it's going to be something debated about on the team, and it also seems to be why they're allowing in more diverse and younger members.
    Last edited by Superlad93; 06-20-2021 at 08:51 AM.
    "Mark my words! This drill will open a hole in the universe. And that hole will become a path for those that follow after us. The dreams of those who have fallen. The hopes of those who will follow. Those two sets of dreams weave together into a double helix, drilling a path towards tomorrow. THAT's Tengen Toppa! THAT'S Gurren Lagann! MY DRILL IS THE DRILL THAT CREATES THE HEAVENS!"

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  12. #477
    Extraordinary Member sifighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    I'm fairly certain it's the cellular breakdown Batman was talking about in Action 1030. Cellular breakdown is the reason anyone gets old and why gray hairs happen. For Clark, or any other Kryptonian, this wouldn't have been an issue for a while, but with the radiation from the breach harming his cells, he's feeling the effects of what would be age.
    I just meant if people would prefer that then Jon being on Earth-3. The idea that his parents came for him but couldn't go back because it would mess with the timeline so they just became a cosmic space family until they could close the loop.
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  13. #478
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sifighter View Post
    I just meant if people would prefer that then Jon being on Earth-3. The idea that his parents came for him but couldn't go back because it would mess with the timeline so they just became a cosmic space family until they could close the loop.
    Eh, outside of it playacting a subsection of fans with a line of dialog or a few pages, I don't see the point. I've long since been of the mindset that Earth-3 as something brought up regarding Jon will be forgotten before too long, and likely replaced with him going to the Legion and growing up there. Even when Taylor had a bit to say on it in an unrelated interview he made a joke out of how convoluted the volcano/Earth-3 stuff is, and the solicitation for issue #1 of Son of Kal-El goes from his time with Damian, his time with Jor-El, skips Earth-3 totally, and talks about his time with the Legion.

    I'm fairly convinced that Earth-3 being part of things to begin with had more to do with scrapped plans than anything else, and now that they're gone Earth-3 in relation to Jon will be talked about less and less. I personally think there's a good idea in it that isn't being made use of, but it's likely not worth the trouble.
    "Mark my words! This drill will open a hole in the universe. And that hole will become a path for those that follow after us. The dreams of those who have fallen. The hopes of those who will follow. Those two sets of dreams weave together into a double helix, drilling a path towards tomorrow. THAT's Tengen Toppa! THAT'S Gurren Lagann! MY DRILL IS THE DRILL THAT CREATES THE HEAVENS!"

    - The Digger

    We walk on the path to Secher Nbiw. Though hard fought, we walk the Golden Path.

  14. #479
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    Do you guys think Jon will get powers at the end of the season? I don’t want him anxious angry and jealous all the time, he might turn into the grandfather.
    Having read Jon's actor's feelings and projections on where Jon's going to go in relation to powers, I'm confident that he won't be getting permanent powers this season or anytime soon unfortunately. The actor said that the most he'd want to see Jon get is some temporary powers that maybe change his personality a bit for the short term similar to red Kryptonite on Smallville. With that in mind, he's likely to get temporary powers via the X Kryptonite/Kryptonian soul device.

    I think a cool short term arc (maybe lasting a few episodes next season) could be him getting bonded with the soul that was in Kyle and getting powers that way. Remember, that soul in particular REALLY doesn't like Jon, and it singled him out as the first person it would kill, so it would be pretty cool to bond those two. The juxtaposition of Jon's uncompromising empathy and goodness next to this xenophobic being of hate, and having them both inhabit the same body for a few episodes.

    The actor also said that what Jon thinks of and associates powers with is something he wants to see developed. This is something that has to be distinctive from how Jordan and Clark view their powers. For Clark they are a natural extension of himself, and he uses them as casually as you or I walk down the street. For Jordan, they are an affliction to be managed similar to his anxiety, and there's a discomfort to how he uses them. So what would it be for Jon? Drugs.

    Drugs was the metaphor used with red K in Smallville. Remember, when Jon was fed up with the town and his girlfriend breaking up with him he immediately turned to drinking and made an ass of himself (though quickly apologized), and you know who he was immediately compared to?? Yup! KYLE!! The idea of being able to dull your senses, take your hands off the wheel, and feel a bit less responsible for your actions for a while is totally what this could be

    Then once he gets them taken away he may forever be sacred of those powers, and the idea that he may one day get them may haunt him. Then maybe have the soul plant the idea in his (and the viewers head) that he has the potential in him, and where normally that would be a hopeful and good thing, it's messed up​
    "Mark my words! This drill will open a hole in the universe. And that hole will become a path for those that follow after us. The dreams of those who have fallen. The hopes of those who will follow. Those two sets of dreams weave together into a double helix, drilling a path towards tomorrow. THAT's Tengen Toppa! THAT'S Gurren Lagann! MY DRILL IS THE DRILL THAT CREATES THE HEAVENS!"

    - The Digger

    We walk on the path to Secher Nbiw. Though hard fought, we walk the Golden Path.

  15. #480
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    This all makes sense. There's nothing wrong with creating a more diverse Justice League, but the problem is Jon doesn't qualify for this in any way. He's a white, seemingly straight, male. There is no reason to push him the way these other new characters are being pushed. Conner and Kara frankly fit the role just as well if they want a white character, if not better, and if increasing diversity was the important factor here, than frankly having POC Superman is a powerful statement worth making. Superman is portrayed as a symbol to humanity in a way most other superheroes aren't. Making a POC character that symbol would have a lot of meaning and they should have gone for that.

    Using Jon is a wasted opportunity and seems to generally just piss his fanbase off. It was a bad choice.

    Want to know why?


    Calvin Ellis isn’t usable without removing half of the stuff that makes him memorable, kong Kenan’s series failed, and Val Zod is a remnant of a failed era of DC(new 52)

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