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  1. #976
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    Sure, if said patrols a only really designed to get two or more character alone to either hook up, argue, reconcile, or play up an interpersonal dynamic because the actual whoever-the-f#%k they're patrolling for couldn't matter less because it's in the far flung future with nearly zero context for the average viewer to draw from. It's why Bendis boiling the first in part down to Ultra Boy dealing with his father, and his father employing a wizard gangster to steal a DC artifact that actually means something to a reader works well and is adaptation friendly.
    I think the character interactions is definitely important, but I think the universe the characters inhabit can be equally memorable and significant.
    Then unironically being teen space cops would make you wonder why you don't just watch a GL show (which they already have in the works)
    The unironically space cops are the Science Police though. The Legion are literal Superheroes.
    You're equating "high" sights with high concept, and that's not really true or fair. High sights, especially in now that the superhero market is so saturated with content, is mixing genre and making these things a "_____show or movie that happens to be about superheroes". We're past the point of treating these shows and films as their own genre because no one is impressed or grabbed by that as much as they used to be. So aim to aim to make this show the one thing we've SHOCKINGLY not seen done well yet: superhero science fiction meets young adult drama.

    Functionally speaking, DC's sitting on Harry Potter meets capes with this, so I'd rather they do THAT than space teen cops. Especially when they're literally making both an Adam Strange show and Green Lantern show.
    I feel like we have seen that before .

  2. #977
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think the character interactions is definitely important, but I think the universe the characters inhabit can be equally memorable and significant.
    Sure, but only insofar as it's seen through the character's eyes especially when it's an ensemble this big. Bendis' world building was so smart because it didn't indulge in itself beyond what the characters and readers needed to know for the story. It's why the idea that New Krypton is encapsulated and only matters as far as Mon-El's living room works so well for the story. Mon-El as a character you enough about how far New Krypton has come and what it values down to it's views on mating being something alien to us. Not only does this save page time and budget while never taking focus from the characters we're here for, it allows us to later be surprised if there is more to see, yet remain satisfied if it's just down to Mon-El throwing out some strange-to-us sh!t that reflects back onto New Krypton.

    Rimbor only matters because Ultra Boy is a main character, and we get to see they contrast between him and his people through him and his dad without over indulging in a whole Rimbor deep dive.

    In fact, right under our noses Bendis created the perfect device to explore his world building just enough while never leaving focus from our characters: each character is a representative of a different world. And because of this their cultures shine through in their actions and we can world build off of their character building. I don't need to see Timber Wolf's world to get that it's a harsh kill or be killed world that has shaped him. Even our main antagonist, the UP president, is reflected in her son who is also on the team.

    The characters in Bendis' Legion aren't just import-- they are the reflection of the universe they inhabit without having to take a full on tour of the universe to get that. Bendis doesn't get as much credit as he should for this little writer's trick he pulled.


    I feel like we have seen that before .
    Not done well.
    "Mark my words! This drill will open a hole in the universe. And that hole will become a path for those that follow after us. The dreams of those who have fallen. The hopes of those who will follow. Those two sets of dreams weave together into a double helix, drilling a path towards tomorrow. THAT's Tengen Toppa! THAT'S Gurren Lagann! MY DRILL IS THE DRILL THAT CREATES THE HEAVENS!" - The Digger

    We walk on the path to Secher Nbiw. Though hard fought, we walk the Golden Path.

  3. #978
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    Maybe they should do a Legion of Superheroes webtoon. Low production costs, get it in front of that target young adult audience, allows for long form story telling to flesh out that character and relationship drama, and having DC publish on webtoons is still novel enough that it would get attention no matter how obscure the characters are. I think it would have a better chance of success than a TV show.

  4. #979
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    A webtoon doesn't replace or negate a TV show. They could simply do both and continue on with putting out the comic in "seasons" that are made up of a limited number of issues.
    "Mark my words! This drill will open a hole in the universe. And that hole will become a path for those that follow after us. The dreams of those who have fallen. The hopes of those who will follow. Those two sets of dreams weave together into a double helix, drilling a path towards tomorrow. THAT's Tengen Toppa! THAT'S Gurren Lagann! MY DRILL IS THE DRILL THAT CREATES THE HEAVENS!" - The Digger

    We walk on the path to Secher Nbiw. Though hard fought, we walk the Golden Path.

  5. #980
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    Sure, but only insofar as it's seen through the character's eyes especially when it's an ensemble this big. Bendis' world building was so smart because it didn't indulge in itself beyond what the characters and readers needed to know for the story. It's why the idea that New Krypton is encapsulated and only matters as far as Mon-El's living room works so well for the story. Mon-El as a character you enough about how far New Krypton has come and what it values down to it's views on mating being something alien to us. Not only does this save page time and budget while never taking focus from the characters we're here for, it allows us to later be surprised if there is more to see, yet remain satisfied if it's just down to Mon-El throwing out some strange-to-us sh!t that reflects back onto New Krypton.

    Rimbor only matters because Ultra Boy is a main character, and we get to see they contrast between him and his people through him and his dad without over indulging in a whole Rimbor deep dive.

    In fact, right under our noses Bendis created the perfect device to explore his world building just enough while never leaving focus from our characters: each character is a representative of a different world. And because of this their cultures shine through in their actions and we can world build off of their character building. I don't need to see Timber Wolf's world to get that it's a harsh kill or be killed world that has shaped him. Even our main antagonist, the UP president, is reflected in her son who is also on the team.

    The characters in Bendis' Legion aren't just import-- they are the reflection of the universe they inhabit without having to take a full on tour of the universe to get that. Bendis doesn't get as much credit as he should for this little writer's trick he pulled.
    I'm not arguing against using characters to develop the culture of their world without needing to spend time or show that world because not every Legion mission is going to involve going to another member's home planet...but I don't think we need to limit it that way. Like even for budgetary reasons I don't think that needs to preclude world-building or spectacle.
    Not done well.
    Well, not that a Legion show is guaranteed to handle it well either...

  6. #981
    Ultimate Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Guess I’m skeptical because of the size of the cast. Also are you envisioning this as part of HBO Max or the CW? I agree that the basics of the Legion make for a great CW show: Character drama, romance, so on and so forth, but I simply don’t see the CW being able to pull it off budget wise. Look at Brainiac 5, dude barely even wears the makeup anymore, and it’s only going to get worse with the rest considering Bendis upped the “alien ness” of the designs for a lot of Legionnaires.

    Just makes more sense to do an animated show to me. Also don’t see them using CW Jon, can’t see S&L letting another show “poach” one of the boys so soon.
    For when my rants on the forums just arenít enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

  7. #982
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Guess I’m skeptical because of the size of the cast. Also are you envisioning this as part of HBO Max or the CW? I agree that the basics of the Legion make for a great CW show: Character drama, romance, so on and so forth, but I simply don’t see the CW being able to pull it off budget wise. Look at Brainiac 5, dude barely even wears the makeup anymore, and it’s only going to get worse with the rest considering Bendis upped the “alien ness” of the designs for a lot of Legionnaires.

    Just makes more sense to do an animated show to me. Also don’t see them using CW Jon, can’t see S&L letting another show “poach” one of the boys so soon.
    The Legion cartoon started out with a basic cast of the most recognizable members and slowly worked more of them in over the course of the show. I think any adaption would probably be smart to take that route.

    I always felt like the Sook designs were probably not going to get adapted much.

  8. #983
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Guess Iím skeptical because of the size of the cast. Also are you envisioning this as part of HBO Max or the CW?
    No more of a tall order than a full stocked Star Trek cast where only a hand full of characters are you're real main characters. That's how Bendis set it up and what the most logical way to go about it would be. Everyone else is a punch line or example of a planet ready to be called upon for one-off greater import later.

    Max. Likely something no more than 8 episodes.

    I agree that the basics of the Legion make for a great CW show: Character drama, romance, so on and so forth, but I simply donít see the CW being able to pull it off budget wise. Look at Brainiac 5, dude barely even wears the makeup anymore, and itís only going to get worse with the rest considering Bendis upped the ďalien nessĒ of the designs for a lot of Legionnaires.
    Even on the CW you could contrive a bunch of reasons to not blow the budget. You're basically doing a science fiction Harry Potter show with Hogwarts as a city.

    Lord, you could even truncate it further by just straight up confining them to their HQ aka Metropolis by saying they're in training and under supervision by the UP. You only get glimpse of other worlds via members going on leave. Then by the second half of season 2 you give us our first legit off word mission which functions mainly by Star Trek or Doctor Who rules where it's basically another room or section off outside location that alludes to alieness. Throw in a bunch of sleepover/team building bottle episodes and holo deck "hey Jon show me what Earth was like in the 21st century" episodes and you've got a show.

    Like I said, realistically, you kind of just need the budget of today's Star Trek. You also clearly don't have to have all two dozen characters on screen all the time. You show one or three different ones and episodes, and throw in an Invisible Kid gag and you're good.

    It only sounds like a big ask but in reality the show doesn't ask for much, and the blueprint Bendis made in those 12 issues asks for even less than Legends of Tomorrow in terms of ambition. Again, the vast majority of that book is talking in rooms that we've already established.
    "Mark my words! This drill will open a hole in the universe. And that hole will become a path for those that follow after us. The dreams of those who have fallen. The hopes of those who will follow. Those two sets of dreams weave together into a double helix, drilling a path towards tomorrow. THAT's Tengen Toppa! THAT'S Gurren Lagann! MY DRILL IS THE DRILL THAT CREATES THE HEAVENS!" - The Digger

    We walk on the path to Secher Nbiw. Though hard fought, we walk the Golden Path.

  9. #984
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I'm not arguing against using characters to develop the culture of their world without needing to spend time or show that world because not every Legion mission is going to involve going to another member's home planet...but I don't think we need to limit it that way. Like even for budgetary reasons I don't think that needs to preclude world-building or spectacle.
    Again, you're saying limit-- as in a negative-- while my actual point is that it is to focus the show and idea. And again, I'm not saying world building shouldn't happen. I'm saying the characters-- the focus of the show-- build the world by their their characterization. Spectacle is as needed and as the budget allows for, but similar to Superman and Lois, it's not the heart or point of the show. You cheer for it, and it's cool when it happens, but what drove the episode was not in those two minutes of flash. But clearly since this is a superhero thing you'd have some form of spectacle as a requirement.
    "Mark my words! This drill will open a hole in the universe. And that hole will become a path for those that follow after us. The dreams of those who have fallen. The hopes of those who will follow. Those two sets of dreams weave together into a double helix, drilling a path towards tomorrow. THAT's Tengen Toppa! THAT'S Gurren Lagann! MY DRILL IS THE DRILL THAT CREATES THE HEAVENS!" - The Digger

    We walk on the path to Secher Nbiw. Though hard fought, we walk the Golden Path.

  10. #985
    Ultimate Member Vordan's Avatar
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    I’ll check out a Legion show no matter what form it takes, traditional superheroics or soap opera. Guess at Fandome we’ll get an idea of whether WB has any plans to do anything with them (and Jon aside from the CW) in the near term.
    For when my rants on the forums just arenít enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

  11. #986
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    Again, you're saying limit-- as in a negative-- while my actual point is that it is to focus the show and idea. And again, I'm not saying world building shouldn't happen. I'm saying the characters-- the focus of the show-- build the world by their their characterization. Spectacle is as needed and as the budget allows for, but similar to Superman and Lois, it's not the heart or point of the show. You cheer for it, and it's cool when it happens, but what drove the episode was not in those two minutes of flash. But clearly since this is a superhero thing you'd have some form of spectacle as a requirement.
    I just think it's fair to expect both characters and some nice visuals in terms of the universe the characters inhabit, otherwise why bother with the setting?

  12. #987
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I just think it's fair to expect both characters and some nice visuals in terms of the universe the characters inhabit, otherwise why bother with the setting?
    Never argued against heighted visuals being part of the show. I don't think they need to be the focus in order for a Legion show to work. That's been my point.
    Last edited by Superlad93; 09-14-2021 at 02:23 PM.
    "Mark my words! This drill will open a hole in the universe. And that hole will become a path for those that follow after us. The dreams of those who have fallen. The hopes of those who will follow. Those two sets of dreams weave together into a double helix, drilling a path towards tomorrow. THAT's Tengen Toppa! THAT'S Gurren Lagann! MY DRILL IS THE DRILL THAT CREATES THE HEAVENS!" - The Digger

    We walk on the path to Secher Nbiw. Though hard fought, we walk the Golden Path.

  13. #988
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    Never argued against heighted visuals being part of the show. I don't think they need to the focus in order for a Legion show to work. That's been my point.
    I guess at the end of the day it's all in the execution and presentation .

  14. #989
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    Like I said, I don't bet against Bendis when it comes to these things. His batting average is far too high.

    People talk about how RiRi was a flop and how it was Bendis shamelessly trying to do Miles again and failing, and how she wouldn't go anywhere especially after Tony got back.

    Now she's coming to live action TV and has already been in a cartoon.

    More than any other writer working today, I take Bendis' "wishful thinking" when it comes to getting TV shows made about his stuff fairly seriously especially in this climate.

    But that's just me.
    Riri's been in two cartoons. Marvel Rising: Heart of Iron and Spider-Man: Maximum Venom.
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