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  1. #751
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the illustrious mr. kenway View Post
    Kid Jon reminded me of Ben 10 so I just associated one with the other.

    I could see the similarities to Dick Grayson but not Peter Parker. Jon lacks Peter's double life woes and underdog/loner status.
    The teen titans would say otherwise..
    Quote Originally Posted by rpmaluki View Post
    The thing about Jon is, apart from the superficial similarities with his dad (being super), he is rather quite unique when you add up all the stuff together that is his character, from conception past the Bendis stuff. He just hasn't had the writing to properly flesh that out and build his character from that. Taylor could be that person but proof is in the pudding, we all gonna have to wait and see if he can actually pull it off.
    Jon is more battle shonen protagonist..like goku,gohan,..etc
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 07-31-2021 at 10:01 AM.
    "I swear to devote my life to the destruction of piracy, greed, cruelty and injustice! And my sons, and their sons, shall follow me!"

  2. #752
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    The teen titans would say otherwise..


    Jon is more battle shonen protagonist..like goku,gohan,..etc
    Jon had a very limited interaction with teen Titans that doesn't necessarily define his character from the bottom up the way Peter has been defined literally by one act. You cannot separate peter from that defining moment, where with Jon, it has gotten lost in everything else that has happened to him. He's not defined by his interactions with TT.

    I know Goku and Gohan but I have a very limited concept of what shonen is. You see what you see in the character, I do not.

  3. #753
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpmaluki View Post
    Jon had a very limited interaction with teen Titans that doesn't necessarily define his character from the bottom up the way Peter has been defined literally by one act. You cannot separate peter from that defining moment, where with Jon, it has gotten lost in everything else that has happened to him. He's not defined by his interactions with TT.

    I know Goku and Gohan but I have a very limited concept of what shonen is. You see what you see in the character, I do not.
    He's literally went to space because the titans.Anyways,he was the most inexperienced kid(for real he was the only kid) in the room from get go and his powers always go haywire with Jl,titans,legion...etc he was'nt some top dog hero.His dad was consided this great hero.Jon was struggling with keeping up with others and walking past his dad's shadow to be superman

    Shonen is boy's japanese comics.Dragon ball is one.Jorge Jimenez the guy who most influenced jon other than tomasi gave jon that shonen flair..
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 07-31-2021 at 10:48 AM.
    "I swear to devote my life to the destruction of piracy, greed, cruelty and injustice! And my sons, and their sons, shall follow me!"

  4. #754
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    He did go up into space with Jor-El because of the Titans but that's it. They are a vehicle to get him to where his current story begins, if you will. Jon's actions today are not based off of that. His aging is a result of his experience with Titans, a consequence that led to Jor-El but not fuel for his actions. He survived his experience with Ultraman because of how he was raised. He is fearful for his father today and hesitant of what that means for him to take up the Superman mantle because of what he learnt during his time with the Legion. Compare that to Peter, you cannot separate Spider-Man from what happened to his uncle, whose death is the driving force behind the character. When I think of teen Jon, I think of him stranded in a foreign parallel world for years with an evil version of his father, I don't think of the Titans rejecting him over a future that hadn't happened, may have never happened. I think of the fact that he spent even more time as a superhero in the future with the Legion than in the present (or rather past) with Damien that is in fact defining him as a person. This may be hyperbole but compared to Peter, Teen Titans are a foot note in Jon's story, when even bigger things happened to Jon, have shaped him long after them.

  5. #755

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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    The teen titans would say otherwise..


    Jon is more battle shonen protagonist..like goku,gohan,..etc
    I always saw the Titans rejecting Jon in Bendis's run as forced. They seemed to like him in Glass's run. He'd be right at home in TT Academy.
    Last edited by the illustrious mr. kenway; 07-31-2021 at 02:32 PM.

  6. #756
    Astonishing Member Blue22's Avatar
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    They definitely liked him in Percy's run. They didn't turn him down because they didn't want him there. They turned him down because they had their own shit to get through before taking on any new members, which is exactly what they told him. If Damian had brought up Jon's membership at literally any other time, they probably would have let him in XD

    As for Jon being part of TT Academy, that....actually would have been a pretty fun idea. All the more reason why, if they had to age him up, it shouldn't have been as drastic as it was. Make him like 14 and put him with the freshmen class. Lord knows those kids could use some more interesting characters since the Batpack is basically carrying that book.
    Last edited by Blue22; 07-31-2021 at 02:53 PM.

  7. #757
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the illustrious mr. kenway View Post
    I always saw the Titans rejecting Jon in Bendis's run as forced. They seemed to like him in Glass's run. He'd be right at home in TT Academy.
    They liked him sure.but,he wasn't taken in by them.which jon wanted.He was still the little kid in the room with unstable powers.
    "I swear to devote my life to the destruction of piracy, greed, cruelty and injustice! And my sons, and their sons, shall follow me!"

  8. #758
    Just Call Me Gar garazza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    They liked him sure.but,he wasn't taken in by them.which jon wanted.He was still the little kid in the room with unstable powers.
    Jon only wanted to be part of the Teen Titans because Damian was a part of it. His end goal wasn't to be a part of the Teen Titans, but to spend more time with Damian and hang out him and his new friends. Super Sons of Tomorrow as a story didn't end with Jon not being allowed to join but it ended with Damian supporting his best friend after being embarrassed in front of a group of new people but ultimately wasn't hurt in any meaningful or significant way. It's exemplified in the rest of the story when Damian is the one to stand by his friend while his team bickers and gets divided in the face of a new and dangerous threat. In other words, Damian "learns" the value of friendship (the story serving as the conclusion of the first big emotional arc of Jon and Damian's narrative friendship that was being told in Superman Rebirth and Super Sons) while Jon learns that the wider superhero community he was born into will step up and help him in his time of need, thus learning the value of community and helping others simply because it's the right thing to do. Even though Jon was more or less rejected, it was no real blow to his self-esteem as he could still hang out with Damian, that's all that really matters right now. They both go to same school now, too, so all the better. Plus, he just took part in his first major crossover event. He even had a starring role. Not bad, for barely being two years old as character. Jon still had so much growing left and yet he was DC's hottest prospect. If his early stuff is this good, who knows how good it'll get once he's actually hit his stride.

    I think I got off on a tangent, but that was the general consensus in the community from my perspective at least and these are the stories we lost because of the age up. There was still so much left to offer, but there's still time to correct that mistake. Over ten years' of Damian's development was nearly thrown out the window in a single run, and yet not only was Williamson able to get Damian back on track in less than four issues like that character assassination attempt of a run never even happened while also coming back stronger than ever before. Fixing the age up by de-aging Jon will, in the grand scheme things, only be seen a minor hiccup in Jon's long coming of age story, the likes of which have been seen since Dick Grayson.
    Last edited by garazza; 07-31-2021 at 11:45 PM.

  9. #759
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garazza View Post
    Jon only wanted to be part of the Teen Titans because Damian was a part of it. His end goal wasn't to be a part of the Teen Titans, but to spend more time with Damian and hang out him and his new friends. Super Sons of Tomorrow as a story didn't end with Jon not being allowed to join but it ended with Damian supporting his best friend after being embarrassed in front of a group new people but ultimately not hurt. It's exemplified in the rest of the story when Damian is the one to stand by his friend while his team bickers and gets divided in the face of a new and dangerous threat. In other words, Damian "learns" the value of friendship (the story serving as the conclusion of the emotional arc of Jon and Damian's narrative friendship that was being told in Superman Rebirth and Super Sons) while Jon learns that the wider superhero community he was born into will step up and help him in his time of need, thus learning the value of community and helping others simply because it's the right thing to do.

    These are the stories we lost because of the age up.
    Yes,while part of that is true.but,he also wanted to be part of the larger hero community.

    I don't think so.Jon was in the mess because the hero community in the first place.From the get go he was treated with prejudice(ww and batman arriving at Clark's doorsteps with glowing eyes).These guys tried to kill him(half of the titans).They fought with each other like idiots.Then when he was overwhelmed by seeing his dad being attacked and went nuclear.Some of them helped.Regardless of the titans reasons.He was rejected.Again.Ofcourse that's gonna have impact.

    I think jon would have learned that Damian wayne is a friend that will stick with you no matter what.The hero community?whatever.We got clark being a jackass to damian afterwards the only guy who stood by him.

    No way the rejection didn't sting the kid.that too over and over again..I think legion fit it in well from where we left of jon. They walked past freaking clark kent superman for jon kent.They wanted him and accepted him...The idea was neat..Jon became the silverage superboy with his solitude and loneliness.Which found an outlet in the legion.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 07-31-2021 at 11:46 PM.
    "I swear to devote my life to the destruction of piracy, greed, cruelty and injustice! And my sons, and their sons, shall follow me!"

  10. #760
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    People might hate it.But,this was something that jon needed.

    Like i said,the ideas bendis had was ok.But,his execution sucked..
    Jon always wanted to be superman.It has been always posted here time and again as a kid.There was always a concept of tension between the super sons and superfathers.That's what always sold them as concept.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 08-01-2021 at 12:06 AM.
    "I swear to devote my life to the destruction of piracy, greed, cruelty and injustice! And my sons, and their sons, shall follow me!"

  11. #761
    Astonishing Member Blue22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garazza View Post
    Jon only wanted to be part of the Teen Titans because Damian was a part of it. His end goal wasn't to be a part of the Teen Titans, but to spend more time with Damian and hang out him and his new friends. Super Sons of Tomorrow as a story didn't end with Jon not being allowed to join but it ended with Damian supporting his best friend after being embarrassed in front of a group of new people but ultimately wasn't hurt in any meaningful or significant way.
    I do...mostly agree with this. but I do think there's also some truth to what Manwhohaseverything is saying as well.

    It's kind of a weird situation because, yes I can buy the rejection legitimately stinging Jon. But then, the Titans really did go out of their way to tell him that they were rejecting him based more on their own shortcomings than his (Basically giving him a "It's not a no, but it's a not now"). And despite them, again, being very clear about that, I can still kinda see a ten year old misconstruing what they said and still thinking that maybe he did something wrong.

    Either way the whole thing was kinda messy and I really wish Bendis hadn't used that as the catalyst for all the bullshit that would soon follow. Especially since it kinda makes me hate a crossover event that I used to really enjoy lol.

    If we really had to go through this bullshit, it should have either been Jor-El straight up taking Jon (to avoid Clark and Lois' being complete fuck ups as parents) or telling him that he could do what Clark never even attempted to do and find a way to control his solar flare. There was no need to bring the Titans into it. Especially when the imposter shrugs it off after going home in Jon's place.

    Honestly, if Damian's team hadn't turned into a complete fucking disaster, I wouldn't have minded if that storyline was a grand finale of sorts for Super Sons and Jon just became part of the Titans. I wonder if things today (for him, Damian, and the Titans) would have been any different had that happened. It's not like him being ten made him unqualified. That's how old Damian was when he joined back in Geoff Johns' run (Which...I guess is canon again.)

    I think I got off on a tangent, but that was the general consensus in the community from my perspective at least and these are the stories we lost because of the age up. There was still so much left to offer, but there's still time to correct that mistake. Over ten years' of Damian's development was nearly thrown out the window in a single run, and yet not only was Williamson able to get Damian back on track in less than four issues like that character assassination attempt of a run never even happened while also coming back stronger than ever before. Fixing the age up by de-aging Jon will, in the grand scheme things, only be seen a minor hiccup in Jon's long coming of age story, the likes of which have been seen since Dick Grayson.


    This right here. It's not about him being a kid forever (I don't think anybody wants that). It's not even about Super Sons. If the trade off to de-aging him was that he could never see Damian again, I'd take that deal. It'd hurt like hell but I'd take it. Because it's not about him. It's about Jon, and actually getting to see him grow up right. To experience what would have been a really cool coming of age story instead of being forced to skip to damn near the end. I didn't need my replacement Superman right away (or at all, to be honest). I was more than willing to wait and enjoy the ride to that destination. We don't see that a lot in comics. Especially not in DC. Marvel's a bit better at it. A good chunk of the X-Men who started out as kids (albeit, a little older than Jon.) are now adults. And for a lot of them, we got to see that journey. But I feel like Jon could have been an even better example. Like you said, he could have been something that we haven't seen since Dick's generation.
    Last edited by Blue22; 08-01-2021 at 12:32 AM.

  12. #762
    Incredible Member Superboy-Prime's Avatar
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    Jon Kent in College is gonna be so exciting next issue. I wonder if he meets a girlfriend there!

  13. #763
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superboy-Prime View Post
    Jon Kent in College is gonna be so exciting next issue. I wonder if he meets a girlfriend there!

    Oh God no .. If he needs to have a love interest so I hope Taylor can develop the story between them in the best way possible. and for God 's sake no Saturn girl or powers girls , I'm traumatized of that shit
    Last edited by Betinayen; 08-01-2021 at 11:10 AM.

  14. #764
    Incredible Member Superboy-Prime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Betinayen View Post
    Oh God no .. If he needs to have a love interest so I hope Taylor can develop the story between them in the best way possible. and for God 's sake no Saturn girl or powers girls , I'm traumatized of that shit
    Meeting a girl at school is like the most natural thing. What's your problem with it?

  15. #765
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    I agree, the route we took to Teen Jon was the laziest possible one. Time skips have never been satisfying because it cuts out the arc to get to the destination. It's essentially reading the spoilers instead of watching the movie.
    May we never forget:

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