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  1. #226
    Extraordinary Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime View Post
    Is Almerac like ancient Rome?
    Not specifically. A lot of us seem to use Rome as our base for it because we're riffing on a society that's built on corruption and excess but don't want to hit too close to home and just say the United States. :P

    Typically, "space Romans" show up a lot in science fiction because everyone riffs on the Rome that they see in films like Caligula or other works showcasing the downfall of the empire as it gave into decadence. Almerac itself (with what we know of it) lends itself very well to that brutal take, so it vibes with it.

    But is it actually anything like Rome? Eh, not especially. The main reason this thread's gotten so much discussion is a lot of us are positing fanfic instead of talking about what's currently going down with Max (that is to say, goddamn nothing), whining about it (like most these threads) or what's actually been done with her (which is a mixed bag). Everyone seems to have landed in the same ballpark, which at least tells me the hivemind is strong, but yeah... A lot of what we're posting is speculative at best and self-indulgent at worst.

  2. #227
    Astonishing Member Prime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Not specifically. A lot of us seem to use Rome as our base for it because we're riffing on a society that's built on corruption and excess but don't want to hit too close to home and just say the United States. :P

    Typically, "space Romans" show up a lot in science fiction because everyone riffs on the Rome that they see in films like Caligula or other works showcasing the downfall of the empire as it gave into decadence. Almerac itself (with what we know of it) lends itself very well to that brutal take, so it vibes with it.

    But is it actually anything like Rome? Eh, not especially. The main reason this thread's gotten so much discussion is a lot of us are positing fanfic instead of talking about what's currently going down with Max (that is to say, goddamn nothing), whining about it (like most these threads) or what's actually been done with her (which is a mixed bag). Everyone seems to have landed in the same ballpark, which at least tells me the hivemind is strong, but yeah... A lot of what we're posting is speculative at best and self-indulgent at worst.
    I mention it cause you had an idea to make Almerac similar to ancient Rome, correct?

  3. #228
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    on the Rome that they see in films like Caligula or other works showcasing the downfall of the empire as it gave into decadence.
    Yeah - giving in to "barbarian" forces is less finger-waggy and worthy of storytelling, I guess. I've seen everything from lead in wine to effeminate men to "decadence" blamed.

  4. #229
    Extraordinary Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime View Post
    I mention it cause you had an idea to make Almerac similar to ancient Rome, correct?
    It's definitely a source of inspiration. Rome as it's been presented in modern storytelling is a great example of an imperialist empire collapsing in on itself because of corruption on every front. Because Maxima and Almerac is so rooted in barbarism and sex, but is also a highly advanced civilization that has conquered many before it, they fit the mold best without breaking it. Obviously it's not one-to-one, I don't think Almerac is in decline. It's working. I speak of them giving in to decadent behavior but that's more because that's probably how we'd view any civilization that's more open about sex and using it openly to advance their empire even at the top level (their Queen).

    If they're just space Romans like Star Trek, that's boring, but it's a good touchstone to base Almerac on to further develop them. I think the really important thing is to take the parts that enhance Almerac or make it feel unique while ignoring the stuff that would be less interesting (such as Tzigone referring to using those traits as an excuse for why Almerac is failing). If it's on the brink of collapse, frankly, it's just a morality play. It's when that system's actually working that watching a revolution burn it down and rebuild something greater (or possibly screwing everything up forever) is interesting.

    If I had my way, the conflict would very much be between Max and her daughter and what to do with Almerac (which as I've noted, I'd morph into an empire seated on the planet Almerac rather than just one planet). Make it complicated and offer lots of positive outcomes that stem from their rule instead of just "look at how corrupt everything is, of course it sucks, bring on democracy!" That's too easy and far too boring to read about. Hell, it's more or less what Orlando did recently. They go to Almerac, reveal it began with a lesbian relationship and suddenly everyone's cool and going to vote blue. They changed that entire planet in one or two issues. What? It's what KSD did over in Aquaman (and I love her run), she made Atlantis a democracy because who doesn't want a government that has to answer to its people? Look, I believe entirely in democracy, but it's kind of reductive to look at an infinite expanse of space and think that our culture is the best and only one. That our impulses are the only right way to look at it. That we have the only way that works. Colu is interesting because they're a computer planet and specifically do not operate as we do.


    I like that there are some fantasy cultures that are monarchies and run benevolently just like I enjoy seeing awful ones overthrown. Be additive. Make the universe larger, not smaller. Make Almerac a very complicated place where just turning it into a democracy overnight wouldn't work. If an entire alien civilization can be changed by one retcon to their history then their thousand years of customs and culture meant nothing and therefore the people are vapid drones. It's just not interesting.

    Almerac should be a problematic place you want to read more about and hope they can make it better. There's a reason the other touchstone I use is Game of Thrones, a world of mostly awful people but you want to see some of the ones who can make it better get their shit together and save their world and oh shit season eight. Well never mind.
    Last edited by Robanker; 03-06-2021 at 10:49 PM.

  5. #230
    Astonishing Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime View Post
    Is Almerac like ancient Rome?
    Well, they have a woman in charge and most seem okay with that so not particularly.

    Just most fictional empires created by authors in what would be considered The West usually use Rome as the basis for when they think of “the Empire” given its longevity of some 1500 years and legacy

  6. #231
    Extraordinary Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Well, they have a woman in charge and most seem okay with that so not particularly.

    Just most fictional empires created by authors in what would be considered The West usually use Rome as the basis for when they think of “the Empire” given its longevity of some 1500 years and legacy
    Even if you're not at all familiar with history, it does have its way into most pop culture by way of, well, exactly as you said. Sometimes they're not even trying to be subtle about it. Looking at you, Star Trek and Fallout: New Vegas.

  7. #232
    Astonishing Member Prime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    It's definitely a source of inspiration. Rome as it's been presented in modern storytelling is a great example of an imperialist empire collapsing in on itself because of corruption on every front. Because Maxima and Almerac is so rooted in barbarism and sex, but is also a highly advanced civilization that has conquered many before it, they fit the mold best without breaking it. Obviously it's not one-to-one, I don't think Almerac is in decline. It's working. I speak of them giving in to decadent behavior but that's more because that's probably how we'd view any civilization that's more open about sex and using it openly to advance their empire even at the top level (their Queen).

    If they're just space Romans like Star Trek, that's boring, but it's a good touchstone to base Almerac on to further develop them. I think the really important thing is to take the parts that enhance Almerac or make it feel unique while ignoring the stuff that would be less interesting (such as Tzigone referring to using those traits as an excuse for why Almerac is failing). If it's on the brink of collapse, frankly, it's just a morality play. It's when that system's actually working that watching a revolution burn it down and rebuild something greater (or possibly screwing everything up forever) is interesting.

    If I had my way, the conflict would very much be between Max and her daughter and what to do with Almerac (which as I've noted, I'd morph into an empire seated on the planet Almerac rather than just one planet). Make it complicated and offer lots of positive outcomes that stem from their rule instead of just "look at how corrupt everything is, of course it sucks, bring on democracy!" That's too easy and far too boring to read about. Hell, it's more or less what Orlando did recently. They go to Almerac, reveal it began with a lesbian relationship and suddenly everyone's cool and going to vote blue. They changed that entire planet in one or two issues. What? It's what KSD did over in Aquaman (and I love her run), she made Atlantis a democracy because who doesn't want a government that has to answer to its people? Look, I believe entirely in democracy, but it's kind of reductive to look at an infinite expanse of space and think that our culture is the best and only one. That our impulses are the only right way to look at it. That we have the only way that works. Colu is interesting because they're a computer planet and specifically do not operate as we do.


    I like that there are some fantasy cultures that are monarchies and run benevolently just like I enjoy seeing awful ones overthrown. Be additive. Make the universe larger, not smaller. Make Almerac a very complicated place where just turning it into a democracy overnight wouldn't work. If an entire alien civilization can be changed by one retcon to their history then their thousand years of customs and culture meant nothing and therefore the people are vapid drones. It's just not interesting.

    Almerac should be a problematic place you want to read more about and hope they can make it better. There's a reason the other touchstone I use is Game of Thrones, a world of mostly awful people but you want to see some of the ones who can make it better get their shit together and save their world and oh shit season eight. Well never mind.
    God, the Superverse is the literally example of "untapped potential" from every corner.

  8. #233
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime View Post
    God, the Superverse is the literally example of "untapped potential" from every corner.
    Okay, let's not church it up man. Some corners are really well developed, at least some of the time. Some corners have been really well developed several different times. I think part of it is that the Superverse has *a lot* of corners to explore. There's a billion different ideas floating around the Superverse, it shouldn't surprise us that many are largely ignored.

    But you bet your ass Almerac is one of the first things I'd tackle if I somehow ever stumbled into the writer's chair.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  9. #234
    Astonishing Member Prime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Okay, let's not church it up man. Some corners are really well developed, at least some of the time. Some corners have been really well developed several different times. I think part of it is that the Superverse has *a lot* of corners to explore. There's a billion different ideas floating around the Superverse, it shouldn't surprise us that many are largely ignored.

    But you bet your ass Almerac is one of the first things I'd tackle if I somehow ever stumbled into the writer's chair.
    You and Superlad literally come up with ideas on the go. Why aren't you Superman writers yet ? ��

  10. #235
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Mostly I think because Superlad, from what he's told me, has no real interest in going pro, and I don't have the time to write dozens of good pitches in the hopes somebody picks one up (assuming my writing is worth reading in the first place).
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  11. #236
    Astonishing Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Even if you're not at all familiar with history, it does have its way into most pop culture by way of, well, exactly as you said. Sometimes they're not even trying to be subtle about it. Looking at you, Star Trek and Fallout: New Vegas.
    Lol, yeah I actually had no interest in Fallout until I came across let's plays of the games and learned about Caesar's faction. Then I bought the game instantly.

  12. #237
    Extraordinary Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Lol, yeah I actually had no interest in Fallout until I came across let's plays of the games and learned about Caesar's faction. Then I bought the game instantly.
    Caesar's Legion is a good example of a villainous faction that's very interesting while making no mistake they're absolutely awful. I can't ever stomach a playthrough on their side (I basically kill them on sight) but goddamn if they're not well-written. Lots of world building to create that flawed behemoth that will crumble under its own weight. Almerac can definitely shine if given that kind of effort.

  13. #238
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Question: If Clark and Maxima had ever had a kid, and I'm not saying I want to open that debate again, but if it had happened....how powerful would that kid have been?

    And I mean, original post-Crisis era, bioelectric aura Clark. Would his bioelectric aura have amplified Maxima's psychic powers and made their child more invulnerable than their father and a more powerful psychic than their mother? Would Clark and Maxima's physical strength have been added together, or overlap?
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  14. #239
    Extraordinary Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Question: If Clark and Maxima had ever had a kid, and I'm not saying I want to open that debate again, but if it had happened....how powerful would that kid have been?

    And I mean, original post-Crisis era, bioelectric aura Clark. Would his bioelectric aura have amplified Maxima's psychic powers and made their child more invulnerable than their father and a more powerful psychic than their mother? Would Clark and Maxima's physical strength have been added together, or overlap?
    Stronger than J'onn. They made new powers up for Maxima that bordered on outright stupid, and she can go toe-to-toe with Clark physically. They'd inherit a power suite akin to a Swiss army knife made entirely of kitchen sink.

    Every time Clark procreates, his kid inherits his powers. Kryptonian cells are aggressive in any matrix so there's no way the kid's not nuts strong and Almerac seems to be able to engineer the best possible offpsring for their ends. The kid would be nuts.

  15. #240
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    So you think post-Crisis Clark and Maxima would've resulted in, essentially, a more Silver Age powered child? I can totally see this.

    Makes you wonder how crazy powerful a union would be if they did it now, when Clark's closer to those Silver Age levels than he was thirty years ago.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

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