House of Almerac Maxima Appreciation 2021

[Robanker]

This is a well thought out post but if I'm being honest, I think associating Maxima so heavily with sex just feels outdated. Firstly, it's odd how often totalitarianism and fascism get lumped in with sex in fiction despite this not always being the case in real life. Secondly, I think Superman's primary female villain should bring something different to the table and too many female villains in comics are infamous for how sexualized they are.

I don't think you can really divorce her from it and she still feel like Maxima and keep in mind her time on Earth would change her a bit. She wouldn't go back the way she came, so act 2 Max is probably going to enact changes in Almerac. Keep in mind I underlined that Almerac is problematic, but like Game of Thrones that doesn't mean it can't be fascinating. The story just can't get lost in the details. Moreover, the guys would be just as sexualized on Almerac. Hell, maybe more so.

My approach in many things is "own it, don't run, bargain or make excuses" so I'd rather embrace the problematic elements and make them work in a way that allows us to present a deeply flawed Maxima and tell a story where she hopefully comes out better at the end. Maybe she fails, but do remember that while not always on the side of the angels in Superman's story, she's the protagonist of Almerac's.

I think Ursa, Faora, Livewire and probably Silver Banshee are more prominent female Superman villains. Max went antihero pretty quick and died after like a decade. The others have been around longer and still get use.

Max has potential to be up there, though.

[John Venus]

Twitter found out about Maxima lmao: https://twitter.com/jamesgunn/status...607908354?s=21

As expected people are jumping to conclusions and tweeting random bs instead of understanding the context of what happened.

Twitter is just the worst form of communication.

[SJNeal]

I don't think you can really divorce her from it and she still feel like Maxima and keep in mind her time on Earth would change her a bit. She wouldn't go back the way she came, so act 2 Max is probably going to enact changes in Almerac. Keep in mind I underlined that Almerac is problematic, but like Game of Thrones that doesn't mean it can't be fascinating. The story just can't get lost in the details. Moreover, the guys would be just as sexualized on Almerac. Hell, maybe more so.

*Pulls up chair*

Go on, I'm listening...

[Robanker]

*Pulls up chair*

Go on, I'm listening...

I think her fantasy about Clark would be indicative of some of the more provocative attire their heroes and sex symbols would sport.

If nothing else, we know Max loves a hefty slice of beefcake.

[SJNeal]

And god bless her for it!

[Vordan]

I hate Twitter so so much. Like these aholes don't even know what happens within the issue.

Oh Twitter is breathtakingly stupid, but I try not to get angry (although I fail sometimes). My favorite responses is the “this is why I hate Superman”, like bro, stfu. You didn’t even know that cover existed, what are you even saying?

That said Robanker is right, the entire point of that cover is to make you go “what the hell? I gotta read this!” Its clickbait before clickbait was a thing.

[Robanker]

Oh Twitter is breathtakingly stupid, but I try not to get angry (although I fail sometimes). My favorite responses is the “this is why I hate Superman”, like bro, stfu. You didn’t even know that cover existed, what are you even saying?

That said Robanker is right, the entire point of that cover is to make you go “what the hell? I gotta read this!” Its clickbait before clickbait was a thing.

Confirmation bias is strong.

Been forever since I read it. Wasn't that a hellscape possible future that reinforced he belongs with Lois?

[Prime]

Oh Twitter is breathtakingly stupid, but I try not to get angry (although I fail sometimes). My favorite responses is the “this is why I hate Superman”, like bro, stfu. You didn’t even know that cover existed, what are you even saying?

That said Robanker is right, the entire point of that cover is to make you go “what the hell? I gotta read this!” Its clickbait before clickbait was a thing.

I try to but I just hate those ignorant twitter hypocrite aholes so much man.


However I do want to talk about the issue for a minute. I do like it but I hate how we got Maxima and Superman together. Lois dies...and Superman just leaves Earth...like come on???

[Robanker]

I try to but I just hate those ignorant twitter hypocrite aholes so much man.


However I do want to talk about the issue for a minute. I do like it but I hate how we got Maxima and Superman together. Lois dies...and Superman just leaves Earth...like come on???

Keep in mind they were ramping Lois and Clark up. I think Max was kind of a last ditch "you guys could have tomcat Superman. No? Okay, Clois it is."

Again, been a long time, but I remember the book effectively saying "everything goes to shit if Clark goes with Maxima."

Which may well be true. :P

[Prime]

Keep in mind they were ramping Lois and Clark up. I think Max was kind of a last ditch "you guys could have tomcat Superman. No? Okay, Clois it is."

Again, been a long time, but I remember the book effectively saying "everything goes to shit if Clark goes with Maxima."

Which may well be true. :P

It doesn't but it was what they thought. But I meant that Superman just kinda leaves Earth after Lois dies. I really hate this trope that Superman's morality and sanity hangs on Lois being alive. Like come the f*ck on. He will grieve but he will move on.

[Alpha]

It doesn't but it was what they thought. But I meant that Superman just kinda leaves Earth after Lois dies. I really hate this trope that Superman's morality and sanity hangs on Lois being alive. Like come the f*ck on. He will grieve but he will move on.

I haven't read the issue, but in modern continuity I could understand why Clark would leave if Lois dies of old age. There will be so many heroes around like Kara, Conner, Jon, etc. And he would probably want a change in scenery since he knows he can't just retire for the next however many decades. He would also want a new perspective on life, explore the beauty in the universe.

[Ascended]

Clark leaving earth after Lois dies isn't a problem.

Clark leaving earth *because* Lois dies is.

It makes perfect sense that, at some point, Clark looks around at all the younger, capable heroes and at all the progress he's helped humanity make, and say "You know what? I've done what I set out to do here and my job is done; earth is pointed in the direction I wanted it pointed in and will reach that bright and shiny future I saw with the Legion" and for him to move on to help other worlds, other peoples, make the same kind of progress. It's a Never Ending Battle but that battle doesn't necessarily take place solely on earth.

It does not make sense that Clark would abandon his life-long mission, which he sees as clearly bigger than any one individual, because his wife died. Clark is not a guy who gives up, regardless of the odds or the pain. He keeps going. That's practically the whole gods damn point of Superman. He loves his wife, but his entire life and sanity and mission as Superman do not hinge on her and any writer who implies otherwise really misunderstands the entire dynamic and both characters.

[Robanker]

Clark leaving earth after Lois dies isn't a problem.

Clark leaving earth *because* Lois dies is.

It makes perfect sense that, at some point, Clark looks around at all the younger, capable heroes and at all the progress he's helped humanity make, and say "You know what? I've done what I set out to do here and my job is done; earth is pointed in the direction I wanted it pointed in and will reach that bright and shiny future I saw with the Legion" and for him to move on to help other worlds, other peoples, make the same kind of progress. It's a Never Ending Battle but that battle doesn't necessarily take place solely on earth.

It does not make sense that Clark would abandon his life-long mission, which he sees as clearly bigger than any one individual, because his wife died. Clark is not a guy who gives up, regardless of the odds or the pain. He keeps going. That's practically the whole gods damn point of Superman. He loves his wife, but his entire life and sanity and mission as Superman do not hinge on her and any writer who implies otherwise really misunderstands the entire dynamic and both characters.

Yeah, after Lois dies I think he could leave assuming he lives that long (which most people want him to). He'd be grieving and need a change of scenery. Jon, Kara or whoever is being pushed at the time would be able to take over for him as Superman. He'd eventually come back anyway. He'd miss the rhubarb pies!

Or maybe they find a way for her to extend her life (as in Tom King's story in Action #1000). Maybe he and Bruce find the grail in another dimension/Earth/planet on a cosmic World's Finest grail quest and Clark is entrusted to keep it, so he lets Lois drink out of it. Yes, I've had some weird ideas for a story.

If we're doing things House of El style, honestly Maxima should be addressed even if she does not become one of his many paramours. I don't love that direction, but if we must do it, she's a candidate assuming she's actually out there.

But Lois being his motivation for doing anything is awful. She's his inspiration, certainly. She raises the bar for him. He wants to be the man she believes in. She makes him his best self, as do all supportive partners. He does the same for her. They elevate each other. If either died, they would be broken a while but eventually they'd return to form, perhaps a little less so because of what they lost. But Clark wouldn't abandon being Superman. He may not smile as much or even be the inspiration he is for a while, but he'd still go out and save people even if it feels like he's just going through the motions.

I feel much the same of Lois. She would keep working, but would definitely slump. Hell, I've written my take on post-DoS for fun and I had her take on puff pieces just to keep working even though it disgusted her to be doing fluff articles-- she just knows working will help her move on. They're adults. They have their own independent motivations and wants in life. If either of them died, they'd still be Clark/Superman or Lois Lane, though perhaps their star would lose some of its glimmer. That's it.

Injustice and Kingdom Come are not the best depictions of Superman's character because they essentially equate him to someone who is cripplingly attached to his wife and cannot function as an entity in a world robbed of her. Lois's death, even at his own hands, would definitely impact Clark. He wouldn't abandon his mission, if only because that's also what Lois loved about him and it's what she'd want for him. She believed in Superman. The only way for her to truly die is for Clark to kill what she believed so much in and stop being Superman because of her. He knows that. He'd keep doing it even if he wanted to stay in bed and clutch her pillow in tears.

[Ascended]

Injustice and Kingdom Come are not the best depictions of Superman's character

Certainly not.

People tend to ignore/forget that those stories are designed to go against the character's grain; they're tales where Superman fails and are Elseworlds for a reason.

And I think Kingdom Come is a great, fantastic story. It really is quite well done on almost every level....but you gotta remember that it's not meant to be a blueprint on how to write those characters, it's a blueprint on how *not* to write them, and shows how things go wrong when you do.

I hate the fact that DC so often learns the *wrong* lesson from stories like Kingdom Come and Dark Knight Returns.

As for Maxima....even after Clark has been widowed and left earth I can't see him being with Maxima. Even if we keep her later characterization where her time with the League had smoothed some of her rough edges, she's just not someone Clark would love. Which isn't a knock on her, but she and Clark are two very different people with different goals and ambitions. I won't say a brief fling is 100% out of the question since there has always been some bit of sexual tension between them, but it would never last.

In a "Lois has died and Clark is moving on" scenario however, I think the more interesting approach with Clark and Maxima is to explore their dynamic through the United Planets. Assuming Clark is still involved with the organization I think having to deal with Almerac as either a UP member or a foil could be a lot of fun. If the idea is for Maxima to be Clark's Catwoman, then you need a connection that goes both ways. This is why, I think, it didn't work before; Maxima wanted something from Clark but had nothing to offer him beyond a bit of short-term temptation. But if they have to interact because of the UP then you've got more room to introduce common ground and desires, then play that up against their sexual tension.

[Robanker]

Certainly not.

People tend to ignore/forget that those stories are designed to go against the character's grain; they're tales where Superman fails and are Elseworlds for a reason.

And I think Kingdom Come is a great, fantastic story. It really is quite well done on almost every level....but you gotta remember that it's not meant to be a blueprint on how to write those characters, it's a blueprint on how *not* to write them, and shows how things go wrong when you do.

I hate the fact that DC so often learns the *wrong* lesson from stories like Kingdom Come and Dark Knight Returns.

Exactly. The whole point was "this is a broken world that isn't what we want to be."

DC gets the book and thinks "how can we get here today instead of tomorrow?"