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  1. #136
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    Interesting about Max Lord though. While these days he's mostly a Wonder Woman villain, he never had that much to do with Diana. Mostly, it was with the Giffen Leagues, including PG. IMO turning him into a villain in the first place was a mistake, but giving him to Diana, who never needed him and had little history with him...was worse.

  2. #137
    Astonishing Member Stanlos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by achilles View Post
    Interesting about Max Lord though. While these days he's mostly a Wonder Woman villain, he never had that much to do with Diana. Mostly, it was with the Giffen Leagues, including PG. IMO turning him into a villain in the first place was a mistake, but giving him to Diana, who never needed him and had little history with him...was worse.
    I think that a lot of TPTB were on autopilot for the Sacrifice/OMAC Project tie-in to Infinite Crisis. Max was not 'Diana's villain' in that story. He was a League level threat and a for to all superhumans (and governments). He had simply identified Supes and Diana as the top two threats among the superheroes.

  3. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanlos View Post
    I think that a lot of TPTB were on autopilot for the Sacrifice/OMAC Project tie-in to Infinite Crisis. Max was not 'Diana's villain' in that story. He was a League level threat and a for to all superhumans (and governments). He had simply identified Supes and Diana as the top two threats among the superheroes.
    Interesting threat assessment. I'd be wary of guys like Dr. Fate, J'ohn, and the Flash...any of them. Sure, those two as well...but why Superman only, when Max probably knows PG better, and was also aware of SG? I must also admit to getting a bit sick of plagues that work on every species, telepaths who can mind control alien minds, universal power dampeners for people with widely different powers and reasons behind them....

    I still think making Max a bad guy when he was already a complex and within the DCU a unique character was an Amazons Attack/Flashpoint/nu52 level mistake.

    Also...can they please keep their stories straight? PG is vulnerable to Max....but apparently NOT to Saturn Queen. Was Max suddenly given a huge power jump so that he's more powerful than SQ? And SG WAS vulnerable to SQ...so are Kryptonians in general vulnerable or not to telepaths, or was there something about PG that made her resistant to SQ? Something about her personality, her experience edge over SG, or perhaps some training she had to resist mind control? Wasn't there some form of Kryptonian martial arts that specialized in combat on the mental level? Does PG know that, is that why she can resist SQ? And if so, why couldn't she do the same with Max, (the real answer of course is that Winick evidently never read that story from the Candor arc of SG, and had a need to fit PG into his ongoing Generation Lost storyline to provide the Gen Lost crew with both an unstoppable opponent, (well, nearly, but only because Winick ignored both logic and precedent about how Kryptonian hearing works), and a character with enough in universe respect from the top heroes to help rally them against Max.

    Getting back to the question of how PG managed to resist SQ in that story, that's the sort of detail they should have explored, and an example of one sort of thing to possibly differentiate her from the other Kryptonians, and would have benefited from a fleshed out origin. It also supplied the only example I've ever seen of a potentially epic PG storyline, when they mentioned that PG fought or will fight a war through time with SQ and possibly Ultraman over SG. Just imagine what a good writer could have done with that, and how much a truly great story with PG as the main protagonist could have done for the character...and still could, if DC ever decides to follow up on that.
    But getting back to the question of

  4. #139
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Minor sidebar but Kryptonian physiology seems a bit different between universes because the green K radiation of one universe doesn't harm them the same as it does native Kryptonians. Extrapolating from that, mind control from Earth-0/1/Prime/New Earth telepaths may not be as effective as Earth-2 telepaths on Kara because of the wavelength the brainwaves travel on. It may be subtle, but perhaps there's a few telepaths that just wouldn't work on her because of it.

  5. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Minor sidebar but Kryptonian physiology seems a bit different between universes because the green K radiation of one universe doesn't harm them the same as it does native Kryptonians. Extrapolating from that, mind control from Earth-0/1/Prime/New Earth telepaths may not be as effective as Earth-2 telepaths on Kara because of the wavelength the brainwaves travel on. It may be subtle, but perhaps there's a few telepaths that just wouldn't work on her because of it.
    The problem is that both in JSA and her own series she was every bit as vulnerable to K as any other Kryptonian. She probably should have had that going for, but she didn't. And the problem with the telepath thing is that they never got it straight as to whether she is or is not vulnerable to telepaths---they went both ways without explanation. Choose one, DC, and stick with it.

  6. #141
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by achilles View Post
    The problem is that both in JSA and her own series she was every bit as vulnerable to K as any other Kryptonian. She probably should have had that going for, but she didn't. And the problem with the telepath thing is that they never got it straight as to whether she is or is not vulnerable to telepaths---they went both ways without explanation. Choose one, DC, and stick with it.
    I like to think that it affects her because she's been on this Earth long enough she's attuning to it. Only way I can make sense of it.

  7. #142
    Extraordinary Member Prime's Avatar
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    What are the rules for kryptonite now? In the new 52, earth 2 kryptonite affected Superbro so what gives?

  8. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime View Post
    What are the rules for kryptonite now? In the new 52, earth 2 kryptonite affected Superbro so what gives?
    I think green k is just green k now.

    Tanya is the Power Girl of Future State SHAZAM so looks like she got back and Karen remains in limbo.

    Looks like it's another year of PG in name only holding the title.

  9. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    I think green k is just green k now.

    Tanya is the Power Girl of Future State SHAZAM so looks like she got back and Karen remains in limbo.

    Looks like it's another year of PG in name only holding the title.
    Yeah, about that...in the preview I saw, Spears is there, but not named. Is there a place where she's named Power Girl?

  10. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by achilles View Post
    Yeah, about that...in the preview I saw, Spears is there, but not named. Is there a place where she's named Power Girl?
    I feel like it's just heavy denial to assume she won't be Power Girl. Strongly doubt they're going to change her name when they have no reason to.

  11. #146
    Extraordinary Member Prime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    I think green k is just green k now.

    Tanya is the Power Girl of Future State SHAZAM so looks like she got back and Karen remains in limbo.

    Looks like it's another year of PG in name only holding the title.
    So green kryptonite just works in any kryptonian from any universe now?

  12. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime View Post
    So green kryptonite just works in any kryptonian from any universe now?
    Pretty much and somehow magic is actually a weakness like green K instead of just something they're not immune to like most other things. Over the years, editors got weaker and writers stopped caring about the characters so they made **** up as they went and here we are.

    Now Green K hits all Kyrptonians the same, magic actually hurts Superman more than it does Batman or Green Arrow and Red Sunlight is an on/off switch for Kryptonian powers. Don't worry if that makes your head hurt. In three years any one of them will instantly cancel the book.

  13. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by achilles View Post
    The problem is that both in JSA and her own series she was every bit as vulnerable to K as any other Kryptonian. She probably should have had that going for, but she didn't. And the problem with the telepath thing is that they never got it straight as to whether she is or is not vulnerable to telepaths---they went both ways without explanation. Choose one, DC, and stick with it.
    Surely she should've been immune to Kryptonite, otherwise wouldn't she have remembered she was Kryptonian and not Atlantean a LOT earlier? Aquaman isn't weak to Kryptonite, so Karen being weak to it should've revealed she was more like Superman than him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Tanya is the Power Girl of Future State SHAZAM so looks like she got back and Karen remains in limbo.

    Looks like it's another year of PG in name only holding the title.
    I'd wait two months before saying that. If JSA gets a book, which considering Alan and Courtney's presence in the Infinite Frontier one-shot I think they will, then we would just need to see if Karen's on the team. Tanya probably wouldn't - she debuted in New 52 and is a Teen Titans character.
    Last edited by Digifiend; 01-17-2021 at 01:04 PM.
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  14. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Surely she should've been immune to Kryptonite, otherwise wouldn't she have remembered she was Kryptonian and not Atlantean a LOT earlier? Aquaman isn't weak to Kryptonite, so Karen being weak to it should've revealed she was more like Superman than him.

    I'd wait two months before saying that. If JSA gets a book, which considering Alan and Courtney's presence in the Infinite Frontier one-shot I think they will, then we would just need to see if Karen's on the team. Tanya probably wouldn't - she debuted in New 52 and is a Teen Titans character.
    Hey man, I'm making bold statements in the hope the universe turns and forces me to eat crow. Which I'd gladly do in this case.


    I'm dreading when that dude in the PG movie thread comes over here and starts making everything about PG's body and reducing her character to fit an archetype so he doesn't have to read her.

  15. #150
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    I too will be thrilled if DC proves me wrong and uses her well, and soon.

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