Karen Starr Power Girl Appreciation 2021

[Agent Z]

Maybe I missed something here but when was Krypton ever depicted as sexist?

[sifighter]

Karen’s in Infinite Frontier #4 today by the way. I think she’s really going to be needed based on where the JSA crashlanded.

[Robanker]

The problem I see with this logic... is that it's mixing in and out of universe reasons. For in-universe reasons she has just as much right to wear the crest of the House of El as Kal-El does. She's his OLDER cousin(among other reasons). Also you're defining identity in what seems to be a very shallow way. Did it "erase" her identity to put on the Nightwing costume? It certainly didn't change the way she acts. Like that alt-U version of Powergirl who wore the logo.... she was the hero and her world's version of Superman was her sidekick. What happened when Darkseid attacked? The usual catastrophic fist fight... So if the only real change is a single logo.... how does that "erase her identity"?
Yeah, but.... is that how Kryptonians do it in canon? I don't think so.

Putting that symbol on her bypasses why she became Power Girl and makes her Super[mantle]. That time she was Nightwing for a moment isn't a permanent status quo change and was treated as temporary even then, much like Dick as Batman.

PG doesn't want to be Super-anything. That's been true of her until the New 52 which turned her into another Supergirl who was often used to prop up male heroes. If you could ask Karen what's a date worse than death for her, that'd be it.

Furthermore, looking at the character's own words, thoughts and the purpose for her creation are valid reasons for disagreeing with a direction-- especially one that contradicts pretty much all of it to fall in line with the take that undermined everything she stood for.


Yes, it's also her name and she's older. He's the one the S-shield represents across the universe, for good or ill. If Jor-El returned as a hero, people would see him as Superman's father, not the elder of the house of El.

Look at Joe Hill as a more realistic example. He writes under a pen name to try and make it in his own without cashing in on his father's name. Steven King, if you're unfamiliar.

Karen knew that back in the 70s and chose a name that only ever referred to her. That was the point then and continues now.

That shield doesn't mean El to the universe. It means Superman. Karen doesn't want to be "Superman's X" or "X of house El/L"

She is Power Girl, which is something she made and only her actions can define. That's the point.

Again, we're not going to agree and each have made our points on the matter so I'm stepping away from the conversation. I feel that the Pre-Crisis and Post-Crises-Pre-Flashpoint PG is truer to her character than anything since and putting her in a Super shield is an afront to what she stands for.

Karen’s in Infinite Frontier #4 today by the way. I think she’s really going to be needed based on where the JSA crashlanded.

She got dialogue! She punched something! I'll happily take crumbs because it does look like our girl is getting some page time again and it's great to see.

[RobinGA]

You sure miss a lot around here when you spend the morning in the doctor's office.

I too think we have flogged the patriarchy debate long enough. I think people are in separate camps,
we are just going to have to agree to disagree.

What I would say is that Power Girl has wanted to create her own distinct legacy from the beginning.
She has NEVER been just a Supergirl knockoff. I personally don't think Supergirl and Power Girl need to be at
war with one another. We can have two female Kryptonians after all. FWIW, I find Power Girl the
more interesting character.

It is being kind to say Power Girl has received crumbs.

[sifighter]

Putting that symbol on her bypasses why she became Power Girl and makes her Super[mantle]. That time she was Nightwing for a moment isn't a permanent status quo change and was treated as temporary even then, much like Dick as Batman.

PG doesn't want to be Super-anything. That's been true of her until the New 52 which turned her into another Supergirl who was often used to prop up male heroes. If you could ask Karen what's a date worse than death for her, that'd be it.

Furthermore, looking at the character's own words, thoughts and the purpose for her creation are valid reasons for disagreeing with a direction-- especially one that contradicts pretty much all of it to fall in line with the take that undermined everything she stood for.


Yes, it's also her name and she's older. He's the one the S-shield represents across the universe, for good or ill. If Jor-El returned as a hero, people would see him as Superman's father, not the elder of the house of El.

Look at Joe Hill as a more realistic example. He writes under a pen name to try and make it in his own without cashing in on his father's name. Steven King, if you're unfamiliar.

Karen knew that back in the 70s and chose a name that only ever referred to her. That was the point then and continues now.

That shield doesn't mean El to the universe. It means Superman. Karen doesn't want to be "Superman's X" or "X of house El/L"

She is Power Girl, which is something she made and only her actions can define. That's the point.

Again, we're not going to agree and each have made our points on the matter so I'm stepping away from the conversation. I feel that the Pre-Crisis and Post-Crises-Pre-Flashpoint PG is truer to her character than anything since and putting her in a Super shield is an afront to what she stands for.



She got dialogue! She punched something! I'll happily take crumbs because it does look like our girl is getting some page time again and it's great to see.

I wouldn’t call it crumbs, sure she’s not as focused on like Roy Harper but this was a story that did show that she was back in the universe, she’s a member of the JSA as we last saw her pre-Flashpoint, and now she’s playing a role as a character in a big miniseries where no doubt she will probably have to help fight Darkseid.

[Robanker]

I wouldn’t call it crumbs, sure she’s not as focused on like Roy Harper but this was a story that did show that she was back in the universe, she’s a member of the JSA as we last saw her pre-Flashpoint, and now she’s playing a role as a character in a big miniseries where no doubt she will probably have to help fight Darkseid.

I mean she says a thing or two and throws a punch. I'm super excited she's doing stuff again, but I also understand that this is the bare minimum of "showing up" in cape comics. It's not like the story pivots on her. Jade is the only one to really have a substantial part-- but I'm just glad Karen wasn't just crowd filler.

I agree entirely that she's set up to do something substantial later and that's rad, but so far it ain't much. Again, however, crumbs (a couple word balloons and a punch) is a helluva lot more than recent instances so I'll take it. Absolutely.

[RobinGA]

I will try and keep an open mind regarding Power Girl's interactions with Darkseid.
I remain dubious that the breakthrough will take place. In probability theory
even the most unlikeliest of options is 0.something. But even if Power Girl
plays a critical role with Darkseid, is still breathing at its conclusion, what takes place after that?

I suppose if you have been following the Earth-2 discussion on the DC page the question
becomes how it is possible. It makes for pretty depressing reading to be honest,
although we can enjoy some dark humor.

Do they place Kara (yes, it is Kara, not Karen, damn it) on the same Earth as everyone
else, or is she on some planet that we hear about once every blue moon? My guess would
be whichever world Supergirl is not inhabiting. I suppose she could be exiled to Gotterdamerung
to fight a mystical being, like the JSA was at the end of CIE, but that would be too
cruel even to think DC management would pull. Perhaps, Power Girl, could be enlisted to hold
Superman's cape while he fights Lex Luthor or Brainiac. The possibilities are endless.

I say all of this not to be sarcastic or mean toward anyone. I am just at the point right
now that I would like the people at DC Comics to show me the path they are going to put Kara on
for the future. How long has it been since the DC implosion? Forty-something years, it has
been a long wait. All those genius types with their great Ivy League educations could tell
us at this point this is our plan for her. I suppose the answer could be we tried to give her
a few books, we are going to keep her in limbo where she is trotted out for a brief appearance.

Of course, the great hope is that eventually someone at DC Comics emerges who will pound the
table for her, she stumbles on the right combination, she eventually breaks out. But we are back
to pretty low probabilities.

[achilles]

I mean she says a thing or two and throws a punch. I'm super excited she's doing stuff again, but I also understand that this is the bare minimum of "showing up" in cape comics. It's not like the story pivots on her. Jade is the only one to really have a substantial part-- but I'm just glad Karen wasn't just crowd filler.

I agree entirely that she's set up to do something substantial later and that's rad, but so far it ain't much. Again, however, crumbs (a couple word balloons and a punch) is a helluva lot more than recent instances so I'll take it. Absolutely.

Spoil me please, what punch does she throw, and what does she say? And what's up next?

[Robanker]

Spoil me please, what punch does she throw, and what does she say? And what's up next?

She sees a Black Lantern and punches them. They block with a construct and then Jade diffuses the threat. PG just kind of recaps where they were just prior but it's not particularly illuminating. She's just the muscle right now, but she comes across pretty well.

[achilles]

She sees a Black Lantern and punches them. They block with a construct and then Jade diffuses the threat. PG just kind of recaps where they were just prior but it's not particularly illuminating. She's just the muscle right now, but she comes across pretty well.

Ah, thank you. At least she's "alive".

[Robanker]

Ah, thank you. At least she's "alive".

She's presented as the most significant member of the lost JSA next to Jade. This is pretty much the most we've seen her do since New 52 Earth 2 which was pretty much just Karen in name only.

[Prime]

You sure miss a lot around here when you spend the morning in the doctor's office.

I too think we have flogged the patriarchy debate long enough. I think people are in separate camps,
we are just going to have to agree to disagree.

What I would say is that Power Girl has wanted to create her own distinct legacy from the beginning.
She has NEVER been just a Supergirl knockoff. I personally don't think Supergirl and Power Girl need to be at
war with one another. We can have two female Kryptonians after all. FWIW, I find Power Girl the
more interesting character.

It is being kind to say Power Girl has received crumbs.

She has never been a knockoff. She IS Supergirl.

[Darkspellmaster]

She has never been a knockoff. She IS Supergirl.

Exactly! She's Supergirl grown up. I don't get how anyone can call her a knock off. If anything PG has always showed her Supergirl self even as an adult figure. I'm hoping if we do get a JSA again, she gets to take on the leader role, even if it's just in the field.

[marhawkman]

Maybe I missed something here but when was Krypton ever depicted as sexist?

I've often seen it described as a "patriarchal society".

But the only reason I can think of is how Kryptonian names (usually) work. Male Kryptonians have their personal name with the name of their house affixed, for example: Zor-El. But female Kryptonians (usually) have their personal name attached to the name of their father, such as Kara Zor-El.

Exceptions exist obviously, one notable one is if the woman's father is deceased, such as(apparently) Car-Vex.

Yeah... that's.... not really a reason to call it "sexist".

[achilles]

I've often seen it described as a "patriarchal society".

But the only reason I can think of is how Kryptonian names (usually) work. Male Kryptonians have their personal name with the name of their house affixed, for example: Zor-El. But female Kryptonians (usually) have their personal name attached to the name of their father, such as Kara Zor-El.

Exceptions exist obviously, one notable one is if the woman's father is deceased, such as(apparently) Car-Vex.

Yeah... that's.... not really a reason to call it "sexist".

Easy fix. Just call them by their personal name and their house name, so PG would be Kara L, and SG would be Kara El. I don't know why they haven't done it already.

As for the Darkseid stuff...if she does fight him, and I'll note that classic PG, which this seems to be, never has done so; I hope they don't do what they did with nu52 Power Girl, who did fight Darkseid. She actually did very well, managing to gouge out his eye, outrun his Omega Beams, and later walk through them with no real harm. But the problem was that none of that stuff hurt Darkseid, who wasn't even momentarily hurt by having his eye gouged. In wrestling terms, he didn't sell the move. In other words, don't make her look bad against him. Hell, make her look very good, she needs it on her reintroduction, she needs to be bad-ass.