Karen Starr Power Girl Appreciation 2021

[Robanker]

No, Jimmy Palmiotti, I don't want you to own Power Girl. Even as a joke. And I never want to see her alongside Harley again.

Yeah. When I see people who think they're cute and want to see Harley get PG like some kind of prize it reminds me that most people don't understand sexual harassment. Real shame.

[RobinGA]

Agreed. But it only speaks to how DC has treated its' women characters.
I have great fears we are going to see something like this again.

[Robanker]

Agreed. But it only speaks to how DC has treated its' women characters.
I have great fears we are going to see something like this again.

Eh, PG's always been treated a bit worse. They all get sexualized in the art, but more than almost any I can think of, PG is given that sort of treatment even in text. Everyone can't help themselves.

[RobinGA]

Do you think it is they get carried away or don't value women?

[Ascended]

Not IMO. Darth Vader was tough, but beatable, and no one argues he's diminished. As I said, even in myth, the gods do get beaten from time to time by demigods like Achilles or Heracles.

I feel like Vader isn't a good comparison. He's just a Sith, not a god, and Darkseid is a god amongst gods. In my mind, this is more like "what if a porg could defeat Vader?"

And really, if Clark can take Darkseid, then there's literally nowhere else to go, no bigger threat that can challenge him, and that's just boring.

But we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

Do you think it is they get carried away or don't value women?

I think it depends on the writer. I think Palometti and Conner wrote Karen as a woman who had to deal with objectification. They didn't objectify her, they wrote characters in-story that did and used that to flesh out Karen's character by showing us how she dealt with it. Other writers (and Palometti has done this some too) simply objectify her.

I support the former; that's just characterization and writing women dealing with real women problems. The latter however, is not cool.

[Robanker]

I feel like Vader isn't a good comparison. He's just a Sith, not a god, and Darkseid is a god amongst gods. In my mind, this is more like "what if a porg could defeat Vader?"

And really, if Clark can take Darkseid, then there's literally nowhere else to go, no bigger threat that can challenge him, and that's just boring.

But we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.



I think it depends on the writer. I think Palometti and Conner wrote Karen as a woman who had to deal with objectification. They didn't objectify her, they wrote characters in-story that did and used that to flesh out Karen's character by showing us how she dealt with it. Other writers (and Palometti has done this some too) simply objectify her.

I support the former; that's just characterization and writing women dealing with real women problems. The latter however, is not cool.

You're right about Palmiotti and Conner having Karen deal with it, but the passivity she does so with a repeat offender like Harley is pretty much allowed because they like Harley a lot and think of her like Pepe LePew. Essentially, Karen would have shut her down a long time ago but because they liked Harley, she gets by being "incorrigible."

Their approach was Karen's kinda over it from everyone. She's no longer angry about it, but she's living with it.

But they still keep bringing it up and letting it happen to her, so I can't give them a pass anymore. It was refreshing in her solo where she was just kind of over the whole thing and trying to move on with her life, but now they've become almost the worst offenders of it because she regularly just lets it slide and that doesn't feel like Karen. I can see her just ignoring someone she'll never meet again, but someone she meets regularly? She'd tell them to knock it off. It was just the writing team playing favorites. You could say the same of Vartox. She only shut him down when she found out he had a robot duplicate of her as his wife or something. It's why I don't believe they were trying to say she makes an exception for Harley. They just thought it was funny.

[Ascended]

You're right about Palmiotti and Conner having Karen deal with it, but the passivity she does so with a repeat offender like Harley is pretty much allowed because they like Harley a lot

Oh yeah. Harley is a total blind spot for them. Outside of her, I think they do alright.

If I remember right, Karen spent most of her first meeting with Vartox shutting him down, hard. Then she found out that he had no interest in having sex with her, and I think that put her on the back foot so much she never fully recovered when dealing with him. But Vartox gets a free pass from me here anyway, he's not a hero so I don't expect proper behavior from him. I don't expect the Joker to wipe his feet on the doormat, either.

And if Karen had interacted with more people than just Harls and Vartox in recent years I don't think I'd be as bothered by the whole thing as I am. Hopefully the JSA find a good home soon and Karen gets lots of page time there, surrounded by peers who respect her and villains who get beat to hell for not.

[Robanker]

Oh yeah. Harley is a total blind spot for them. Outside of her, I think they do alright.

If I remember right, Karen spent most of her first meeting with Vartox shutting him down, hard. Then she found out that he had no interest in having sex with her, and I think that put her on the back foot so much she never fully recovered when dealing with him. But Vartox gets a free pass from me here anyway, he's not a hero so I don't expect proper behavior from him. I don't expect the Joker to wipe his feet on the doormat, either.

And if Karen had interacted with more people than just Harls and Vartox in recent years I don't think I'd be as bothered by the whole thing as I am. Hopefully the JSA find a good home soon and Karen gets lots of page time there, surrounded by peers who respect her and villains who get beat to hell for not.

Agreed. She needs to be seen as more than a joke about breasts and Harley's favorite thirst trap which is all she's been used as since N52 Earth-2 until recently.

[marhawkman]

You're right about Palmiotti and Conner having Karen deal with it, but the passivity she does so with a repeat offender like Harley is pretty much allowed because they like Harley a lot and think of her like Pepe LePew. Essentially, Karen would have shut her down a long time ago but because they liked Harley, she gets by being "incorrigible."

Their approach was Karen's kinda over it from everyone. She's no longer angry about it, but she's living with it.

I know several people who are like "oh people are staring at me? Must be a day ending in -y." But that's when it's not something that directly bothers her. Some of the stuff Harley does? yeah.... knuckle sandwich time.

[seccruz]

No, Jimmy Palmiotti, I don't want you to own Power Girl. Even as a joke. And I never want to see her alongside Harley again.

Quoted for the damn truth!

[achilles]

There are some characters however that I'd really like to see with PG again. Blue and Gold, Fire and Ice, Captain Atom...you get the drift. They all played well off each other, and it's been long enough I think that they could hold another mini or something.

[marhawkman]

There are some characters however that I'd really like to see with PG again. Blue and Gold, Fire and Ice, Captain Atom...you get the drift. They all played well off each other, and it's been long enough I think that they could hold another mini or something.

Yeah a modern take on JLI with Powergirl and well all of those would probably work reasonably well.

[signalman112]

Mike Grell.

MikeGrellPG.jpg

[achilles]

Mike Grell.

MikeGrellPG.jpg

Nice one! And Grell could be great as a PG solo. I'd love to see what take he could do with her.

[Robanker]

Nice one! And Grell could be great as a PG solo. I'd love to see what take he could do with her.

After what he did to Dinah, hard pass. His art's great, though.