Karen Starr Power Girl Appreciation 2021

[SuperX]

Hey Robanker, you mentioned in another thread that you feel strongly that PG isn't bisexual, and I was wondering why. I don't know her very well, and I'm not saying she needs to be Bi, but what's the particular reason for her not to be?

She is very straight, you can tell in every appearance she is in,same for Conner Kent is straight also, it's obvious as the sky is blue.its not something I want to get into just to get into it, I'm only here for fun,, I just know these characters because I have read them for years

[Robanker]

Hey Robanker, you mentioned in another thread that you feel strongly that PG isn't bisexual, and I was wondering why. I don't know her very well, and I'm not saying she needs to be Bi, but what's the particular reason for her not to be?

While not the strongest indicator, she's had a string of romantic/sexual attractions to strictly male characters thus far. Some of which are clearly flings (Hal, Michael) and some were meant to be more (Val). Sometimes it was just flirting (you can read her summation of Dick Grayson as this in her own series, she flirted with Firestorm Pre-CoIE a time or two... She was attracted to Kal when they weren't cousins..., Arthur) This alone doesn't mean much, but it does at least point into the "bisexual at most" category. The failure of those relationships was either because they're non-committal partners (Hal), their heart belongs to someone else (Carter) or, frankly, just rushed execution because PG was arm candy to them (Val). But we've seen PG pursue men and men pursue her, so we know it's something she feels pretty sincerely. We've seen multiple facets of her addressing romantic and sexual relationships, so at the very least she is either straight, bi or somewhere between.

So why don't I see Karen as bi. Well, she usually gets paired up with whoever the person bringing it up finds hot (usually Diana) or her most significant female relationship, Helena, her best friend. I admit, shipping culture has ruined this for me because any two characters who share any positive bond, friendship or otherwise, get shipped hard now (any and all Trinity shipping, Tim and Kon, Tim and Cassie, Jon and Damian, Booster and Ted, Dinah and Barbara, Nightwing and any woman he shares a panel with, Fire and Ice, etc), and these two were essentially their universe's World's Finest. Like Bruce and Clark, these two were basically family-- they were sisters-- best friends. And then she loses Helena when her world dies. After that the usual candidates are Atlee, a sometimes minor who admittedly is very naive and seems to look up to Karen as an older sister who she learns about the world through and Harley, who is a toxic influence who reduces Karen to breasts that she wants to fondle.

So the options presented: best friend, student (and sometimes minor), or serial sexual harasser. The last two are right out, frankly. Neither are healthy nor help Karen in any significant way. The former? Well, she's dead for one. Two, I just don't see what it really does for Karen's narrative that "last daughter of an orphaned universe who lives in a world with people resembling her dead family and friends" doesn't already. Three, well, the character has a really rough reputation of being a walking fetish and I feel like the representation upside would be overtaken by what's essentially doubling down on "PG is there to titillate because lesbians are hawt" since everything Power Girl is always relegated to "the big boobs character." Most the general audience who knows her thinks of her in reference to porn, cosplay or people liking big boobs, and I can't help but feel that retconning her specifically as bi will just be adding more fuel to that fire, however unfair that is on so many fronts.

No matter what they try to do with Karen, she always gets the bad side of the coin flip.

PG does the whole body positive thing because she's proud of her figure. This usually gets brought up with the boob window, but she wore a plain white leotard before and also wore a scoop neck before going back to the window. As evidenced here, which brings me to my next point...


PG.jpg


When she was first introduced, she refused to be Supergirl because she didn't want to live in Kal's shadow. She wants to be her own woman. Without fail fandom keeps demanding she be made Supergirl or Superwoman because they don't care that the entire point of her character was "she's not Supergirl, she's Kara but she had a different life and is a different person." But fans don't care, to them she's just E2 Supergirl and how dare she not wear the S. Putting the S erases her identity, but who cares, right?

Karen has a character. She's very proud of herself and if you have a problem? That's your problem. She will outright tell you it's your problem. She doesn't want to ever be Supergirl/Superwoman etc. She knows that the El crest is a Superman symbol regardless of it being her family crest-- to the universe, it means Superman. She's pretty much fine staying solo, but has shown interest in a lot of guys before, though nobody who reciprocated was really relationship-material for her. Karen's arc over her history is actually relatively consistent, origin not withstanding.

And yet it always gets ignored. The discussion is always about covering herself up despite her costume actually not being as revealing as many others that don't get nearly the same criticism. Frankly, she gets drawn by most artists to have the same basic body as most superheroines (like Nightwing and male heroes despite his memetic ass) but she gets to be the butt (or chest) or every joke. It's always about "well despite her clear dating habits, I bet she likes girls because her best friend is a woman." It's always inferring over informing; it kind of feels sexist because the character can never evolve past what others want to project onto her regardless of what the character has been saying, doing or feeling for over 40 years. Setting aside that she's a fictional character for a moment, every discussion about Power Girl inevitably turns to people telling her how to dress or talking about breasts. One of DC's most outspoken feminists. Every discussion about her inevitably comes down to everyone trying to shame her over wearing a teardrop cutout (which are things women wear around my neck of the woods regularly, if not significantly more revealing clothing because they like how they look in them) or not embracing what they want her to identify as. If it was just "I think her costume looks dumb," I get it. But it's not.

So where does this come around to her sexual orientation. Karen has always been one hundred percent about who she is and what she wants. She never would have been in the closet to begin with. But because of the reputation the character has, I feel like the retcon just plays into the stereotypes about her even though it shouldn't. It'll just be used as either "of course the angry feminist character likes women" or "of course they made the bimbo also want to kiss girls. Ugh." I very much doubt the overwhelming response would be "cool, that is an interesting development for Karen." Frankly, it doesn't really do anything to help her or enhance her story and will probably just get people to double down on their preconceived notions about her.

Alan Scott I see major upsides to retconning into a gay man. Back when it was on the table, my opinion was "I'm only okay with it if it doesn't erase Todd and Jade." New 52 erased them to make him gay and that sucked. It was erasure and replacement. The recent retcon keeps Todd intact (himself a gay character) and now presents many new layers to Alan's narrative. It also fit within his characterization because he was generally a stoic man who kept his feelings close-to-the-chest-- something a man from the 1940s deeply in the closet would likely be.

Diana being bisexual? About goddamn time they admitted it. It makes complete sense as she comes from an island of all women where the majority of them have likely had same-sex relationships and she very likely had some herself. Starfire absolutely makes sense as another bisexual character given what we know about Tamaran.

I just don't see it with Karen. I won't like her any less if she's revealed to be bisexual, but frankly I just don't really see it given her history and I question targeting the outspoken feminist character because it reminds very much of my dad's generation's beliefs on feminism; "feminists are all secretly misandrist lesbians." It's absolutely wrong, but given how Karen is treated by most, she'll probably just get hit with that and more talk of her being a sex object. Because that's been the trajectory of her history since her resurgence.

She's a favorite of mine. She still will be if she's revealed to be bisexual, but I don't think it'd really help her any. She's a sassy woman who lost a lot and can be prone to depression. She can have a short temper. She's straight and has been attracted to a lot of guys, but is not in a rush to date anyone and would be just fine being a spinster living with her grumpy cat. She greatly enjoys mentoring young heroes, particularly younger women like she was and showing them they never have to compromise to patriarchal values. She is proud of her body and is annoyed by people who try and make her feel like she should be ashamed of it or who treat her as a sex object. She's direct. She doesn't need to apologize for being herself. She isn't shy. The only time she's ever had longterm identity concerns was with respect to if she belongs on this Earth-- but her love life? She's had that figured out for a long time. To paraphrase Ron Swanson, Karen knows what she's about.

Karen would absolutely have come out if she was ever going to. I just don't see it. If others do, they're welcome to, but that's never really been the character I've read.

[Alpha]

Fair enough. I totally understand and accept your view. It makes sense. Just one thing tho, if they revealed her to be bi I hope it wouldn't be about her coming out of the closet as much as it would br about her discovering it later in life. Amyway, not that I had heard many request to change her sexual orientation, but now that I've read your thoughts I totally lean that way. Not so much out of fear of the response reinforcing some lf the worst perceptions of her, but more due to her having a solid basis which doesn't even relly om her romantic relationships, and the fact that it would probably take away from her most important friendships

[Prime]

I just don't know what else there is to do with the guy anymore, but he did have a good angle for Karen to hate him with.

There is not much to do with SBP except to let him have his happy ending. Whatever animosity he could have had with Kara is long gone now. Also he is way to powerful for her anyway. Dude literally was exchanging blows with Bat!LOL

[achilles]

Beyond all of that stuff, there was an issue where PG mentioned that one of the Crimson Foxes was checking her out, and PG seemed a bit amused and a bit exasperated by that, (and all the men doing that as well). That's it, that's the entire extent of the topic even being mentioned in Power Girl's entire history. Acknowledging there was interest on a woman's part once, but not evidently doing anything about it. That, and all the male admirers and actual boyfriends she's had, mostly off panel, suggests that at the very least there is no reason in her publishing history to suggest she's either bi or lesbian.

[achilles]

There is not much to do with SBP except to let him have his happy ending. Whatever animosity he could have had with Kara is long gone now. Also he is way to powerful for her anyway. Dude literally was exchanging blows with Bat!LOL

Is he? She seemed to scare him quite a bit when she was threatening him with her heat vision. Granted, that was a threat to use her heat vision in a very unpleasant way...

[Prime]

Is he? She seemed to scare him quite a bit when she was threatening him with her heat vision. Granted, that was a threat to use her heat vision in a very unpleasant way...

Wasn't he repowered and by then he took on every hero on Earth. Also when the sun came up he literally beat Superman, Supergirl and PG all together

[Digifiend]

Well it never will happen; CW has had many chances to introduce her, and never did. Working her into SG should have been a no-brainer, but they didn't. Stargirl, maybe, but even I think that would be wrong as she'd just take over.

Yeah, they missed their chance. Logically, Power Girl should be a Supergirl doppelganger, therefore her show would be the place to use her - and live Supergirl's other doppelgangers Red Daughter and Overgirl, she'd be played by Melissa Benoist.

So will Powergirl get her own television series in the Arrowverse, and who should play her?

Can't see that happening. She should've been used in Supergirl.

Karen in Stargirl would really depend on how far the history of the JSA on Earth-2 got. Other heroes on that world did exist, the seven soldiers of victory, the all-star squadron, and the freedom fighters, so nothing specifically is saying that the cousin of a semi-retired Superman couldn’t be on that Earth either. Could be like the 70’s All-Star comics she just hasn’t made her official debut yet, maybe because of the death of the JSA.

Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman seem to have been excluded from the JSA, though that doesn't mean they don't exist. Power Girl is therefore not likely to appear in Stargirl. There's plenty of other heroes available, they have all of Infinity Inc and the kids from Geoff John's JSA to choose from. We're getting Jade and Jakeem Thunder next season.

We never saw the bodies for either of them, so I think they're around somewhere. Alan may have gotten pulled into the Lantern or something and maybe the Speed Force took Jay.

I just really don't want to believe they're gone.

Good theory. Maybe that's something that will be explored with Jade's character - and they can bring Jesse Quick in to do the same thing for Jay.

[Prime]

Power Girl is extremely hard to translate because she isn't just some other kryptonian she literally IS Supergirl. As long as Supergirl exist in a universe we won't see her cause she is technically there already

[SplinteringHeart]

Without reprinting post #107 by Robanker, I just want to say: my earlier posts were coming from the point of view which agreed with the impression of PG being of not much but a busty girl..I still think there's enough reason for this impression to be sustained, BUT I really appreciate Robanker's effort and informed perspective of PG. Its "cool" that PG has a fan/fans like this to speak up and support with articulation as she is a possibly neglected misunderstood character..I'll be informed by Robanker's view on PG..

PG seems to have a similar problem (Supergirl copy) as Shazam (Superman copy) until such time as DC can work on getting the right writer and will to give them a decent go int their own title...perhaps PG and Shazam should team up and form a new team, or be part of a revived JSA in some way..

[achilles]

There is not much to do with SBP except to let him have his happy ending. Whatever animosity he could have had with Kara is long gone now. Also he is way to powerful for her anyway. Dude literally was exchanging blows with Bat!LOL

Naw, he needs either to be a rogue for Connor and PG, or get killed off. I'm not a fan of having character do unspeakable action, kill millions or billions, and then have a happy ending because they did something once that wasn't totally evil.

[Prime]

Naw, he needs either to be a rogue for Connor and PG, or get killed off. I'm not a fan of having character do unspeakable action, kill millions or billions, and then have a happy ending because they did something once that wasn't totally evil.

Nah, technically though you got the second option to since he kinda died when he beat BatLMFAO

[Robanker]

Naw, he needs either to be a rogue for Connor and PG, or get killed off. I'm not a fan of having character do unspeakable action, kill millions or billions, and then have a happy ending because they did something once that wasn't totally evil.

While I hate this sort of thing too (it's why I can't stand Nu Harley), if they're putting the character out to pasture, I can forgive it because that means they're retiring an idea that overstayed its welcome-- at the very least, it won't be bugging us anymore.

But if Prime ever comes back, it should be as a villain to Conner, PG or both.

[SuperX]

Naw, he needs either to be a rogue for Connor and PG, or get killed off. I'm not a fan of having character do unspeakable action, kill millions or billions, and then have a happy ending because they did something once that wasn't totally evil.

I agree with you, sad others don't,and just because it makes a warm nice ending. Killers are ****, and should be shown to be ****

[Prime]

Does PG even have a rogues gallery?