Natasha Romanov: Black Widow Appreciation 2021

[ed2962]

I'm expecting them to make a joke about how Americanized Natasha is .

I know, right? It was explained in the comics long time ago, but I don't think it's been addressed in the movies yet.

[OOTCS]

I recently ran across this interview (from 2015) with Richard K. Morgan about his thought process in writing the Black Widow: Homecoming series: How To Make Black Widow Truly Awesome, According To Richard K. Morgan

It made me think. When I read the series the first time, I found it heavy-handed with the "all men are predators" and "strong independent woman" themes, but I guess I didn't think about what came before. I know there are individual stories with Natasha having a respectable amount of agency, but until this series came out, she didn't really have a coherent arc or direction. There were a lot of conflicting stories set in her past or about her going back to her past where the stories didn't really fit in with each other. The conflicting memories and the fact that she was older than she looked all being part of the Red Room tactics made sense as a story and tied a lot of things together in a way that made her more accessible as a character. And yeah, eventually you get sick of the Red Room stories, but overall, having that mythos and having her story expanded that way did a lot for her in the scheme of things. It makes me wonder if, without this series and everything that stemmed from it, she would have gotten the MCU treatment and become the Marvel fixture that she has.

Anyway, those are my thoughts. What about all of you?

[chicago_bastard]

I recently ran across this interview (from 2015) with Richard K. Morgan about his thought process in writing the Black Widow: Homecoming series: How To Make Black Widow Truly Awesome, According To Richard K. Morgan

It made me think. When I read the series the first time, I found it heavy-handed with the "all men are predators" and "strong independent woman" themes, but I guess I didn't think about what came before. I know there are individual stories with Natasha having a respectable amount of agency, but until this series came out, she didn't really have a coherent arc or direction. There were a lot of conflicting stories set in her past or about her going back to her past where the stories didn't really fit in with each other. The conflicting memories and the fact that she was older than she looked all being part of the Red Room tactics made sense as a story and tied a lot of things together in a way that made her more accessible as a character. And yeah, eventually you get sick of the Red Room stories, but overall, having that mythos and having her story expanded that way did a lot for her in the scheme of things. It makes me wonder if, without this series and everything that stemmed from it, she would have gotten the MCU treatment and become the Marvel fixture that she has.

Anyway, those are my thoughts. What about all of you?

Thanks for sharing the interview. Some interesting thoughts there.

I appreciate Morgan's run for actually diving into the Red Room origin story that was only hinted at beforehand, but some aspects of it still rub me the wrong way, e.g. Fury being responsible for her defection due to his stupid pheromone perfume. That actually contradicts Morgan's self-praise in the interview as he basically took Natasha's agency away from her and made her defection a ploy by a male character. It's a good thing that subsequent writers chose to ignore that part.

So overall his statements sound good but I don't think his run really holds up to his claims that well. Though I fully agree with his stance that Natasha wouldn't ever want to have children, too bad that Kelly Thompson thinks differently.

As for the bolded part: I don't think Morgan's run was the one that explained her age with the Red Room treatment, I even think he was trying to retcon her birth year and give her a "normal" age for her looks. Notice that in the interview he states that he imagined her as being in her late 30s for his story.

It's funny that the David Hayter movie is mentioned in the interview, as I just recently wondered what would have been if that film were made back then before the MCU even started. I found out that Hayter is a big BW fan and even named his daughter Natasha so I'm curious how that would have turned out.

[OOTCS]

Thanks for sharing the interview. Some interesting thoughts there.

I appreciate Morgan's run for actually diving into the Red Room origin story that was only hinted at beforehand, but some aspects of it still rub me the wrong way, e.g. Fury being responsible for her defection due to his stupid pheromone perfume. That actually contradicts Morgan's self-praise in the interview as he basically took Natasha's agency away from her and made her defection a ploy by a male character. It's a good thing that subsequent writers chose to ignore that part.

I agree 100% on the Fury thing.

So overall his statements sound good but I don't think his run really holds up to his claims that well. Though I fully agree with his stance that Natasha wouldn't ever want to have children, too bad that Kelly Thompson thinks differently.

Yes, what I forgot to say about that is how I appreciate that it was made clear here that the reason Natasha was upset was because her choice was taken away, even though she doesn't want children, and the focus of the pregnancy aspect was on her fellow Widow who did want children. In contrast with the MCU, where the sterilization flashback is placed squarely in the context of Natasha trying to convince a guy to go out with her.

As for the bolded part: I don't think Morgan's run was the one that explained her age with the Red Room treatment, I even think he was trying to retcon her birth year and give her a "normal" age for her looks. Notice that in the interview he states that he imagined her as being in her late 30s for his story.

Whether that was his intention or not, I think this run cemented it (or helped it along the way). We already knew she was alive during WWII, and Lyudmila specifically said that their cocktail slows down aging, so it's easy enough to put those two pieces of canon together in that way.

It's funny that the David Hayter movie is mentioned in the interview, as I just recently wondered what would have been if that film were made back then before the MCU even started. I found out that Hayter is a big BW fan and even named his daughter Natasha so I'm curious how that would have turned out.

I didn't even know about it until I read the article! I'm guessing back then it would have been very much a spy film, with few if any ties to the rest of the Marvel Universe.

[Spider-Chan]

BLACK WIDOW #10
KELLY THOMPSON (W) • ELENA CASAGRANDE (A) • Cover by ADAM HUGHES
Variant Cover by MARK BROOKS
MARVEL GAMES VARIANT COVER BY NETEASE
BLACK WIDOW’S LIFE BLOWS UP WITH HER LEGACY ISSUE #50!
Things are looking grim for the Black Widow as Apogee and his superhuman forces them back into a corner! With Lucy’s powers still a possible death sentence and the Widows on the run, who will save San Francisco from Apogee...and who will save the Olio from themselves? “I Am the Black Widow” ends here, and a new power emerges as superstars Kelly Thompson and Elena Casagrande launch Natasha Romanoff into a new deadly era!
32 PGS./Rated T+ …$3.99

[Snoop Dogg]

what do you mean 50th issue
what are they not counting

Anyway, those are my thoughts. What about all of you?

it's really bad

[OOTCS]

what do you mean 50th issue
what are they not counting

It's super weird, right? This article (https://www.gamesradar.com/amp/black...ew-deadly-era/) counts the Name of the Rose/Kiss or Kill series from 2010 (8 issues), the Edmonton/Noto series (20 issues), the Waid/Samnee series (12 issues), and now the 10 issues from the current series. I have no idea why the others didn't make the cut. Maybe they're considered minis while these were ongoings? But the 2010 one was extremely contained and led right into Widowmaker, which means it couldn't have been planned as an ongoing. I don't really get it.

Also, if they were going to count it as a special anniversary issue, then shouldn't it be giant-sized or something? A couple of extra stories in the back?

[juan678]

[chicago_bastard]

Whether that was his intention or not, I think this run cemented it (or helped it along the way). We already knew she was alive during WWII, and Lyudmila specifically said that their cocktail slows down aging, so it's easy enough to put those two pieces of canon together in that way.

Oh I didn't remember that bit of dialogue, that makes sense then.

I didn't even know about it until I read the article! I'm guessing back then it would have been very much a spy film, with few if any ties to the rest of the Marvel Universe.

Very likely no ties at all. That was a time when Marvel licensed its characters to different studios and the film rights on Black Widow were sold to Lionsgate, which to my knowledge only held the rights to one other Marvel character, that being The Punisher. So e.g. Daredevil popping up would have been impossible because his film rights were at Fox then.

And yeah, it likely would have delved into the spy stuff, been pretty violent, possibly R-rated on a lower budget with a b-list actress instead of Scarlett.

[chicago_bastard]

It's super weird, right? This article (https://www.gamesradar.com/amp/black...ew-deadly-era/) counts the Name of the Rose/Kiss or Kill series from 2010 (8 issues), the Edmonton/Noto series (20 issues), the Waid/Samnee series (12 issues), and now the 10 issues from the current series. I have no idea why the others didn't make the cut. Maybe they're considered minis while these were ongoings? But the 2010 one was extremely contained and led right into Widowmaker, which means it couldn't have been planned as an ongoing. I don't really get it.

I thought the 2010 run was planned as an ongoing at first. If it were planned as a mini they wouldn't have continued it with a new creative team after Liu's 5-issue arc ended. I guess the sales dropped badly after Swierczynski took over and then they decided to scrap it together with the Hawkeye/Mockingbird book and bring it to a conclusion.

It's still weird as I'm sure that the legacy numbering of some other characters does count limited series. BW could be close to hundred issues if they counted some other stuff.

Also, if they were going to count it as a special anniversary issue, then shouldn't it be giant-sized or something? A couple of extra stories in the back?

I'm not surprised in the slightest. It's surprising the character achieved this prominence despite Marvel editorial treating her like an afterthought.

[Frontier]

Uh...happy 50th, I guess .

[Chris0013]

Rant time...I freaking hate legacy numbering...it is complete BS to me.

[Frontier]

[chicago_bastard]

The Red Room is getting overexposure at the moment, doesn't it? As if Aaron's boring Red Widow character wasn't enough now he is making She-Hulk a Red Room recruit, smh.

[Spider-Chan]

The Red Room is getting overexposure at the moment, doesn't it? As if Aaron's boring Red Widow character wasn't enough now he is making She-Hulk a Red Room recruit, smh.

It's why Thompson preferred not to put focus on it in her run.

Preview for #7.