Natasha Romanov: Black Widow Appreciation 2021

[Spiderfan001]

Context is only what the writers choose to happen. Her Widow's Bite didn't work on Crossbones because the writers decided it wouldn't. They could have decided differently. She isn't able to compete physically with Winter Soldier and Crossbones because the writers chose to make her a normal human instead of having a variant of the super soldier serum like in the comics. In the comics she can easily hold her own against Bucky and outright defeated Crossbones the only time they fought. So how come it doesn't bother you that MCU Widow isn't as formidable as her comic book counterpart when you are so concerned about an accurate depiction of Red Guardian in th MCU? Double standard?

And if you want context for Red Guardian, that guy was rotting in prison for 20 years and obviously didn't work out as can be seen when he puts his suit on. He is old and clearly not in shape, so there you have your context for him getting his ass kicked by Taskmaster. Double standard?



Seems you didn't get what the line was supposed to say. Not being a soldier has nothing to do with not being formidable in physical combat. Shang-Chi also isn't a soldier so I guess that guy isn't all that in physical combat, too?



I get the feeling you are having trouble to see through writer's intent. This scene was clearly meant to show how arrogant and delusional he is. He didn't take cover because he thought the darts couldn't harm him.



The difference between you and me is that I don't base my judgement of movies on how they treat characters I like. I think Widow is getting sidelined and relegated to a negligible role on par with a d-lister like Mantis in Infinity War, yet I still say it is a top 5 MCU movie. I still think Captain America: Winter Soldier is a very good movie even though Widow gets nerfed as hell in it just to make the boyscout look better. She isn't the protagonist in either of these movies so it isn't essential for the movie's quality if she's treated accurately in them. Same goes for Red Guardian and Taskmaster in Black Widow.

No it doesn't work on him because of the damage he took from the helicarrier crash.He was clearly amped up.He even said so when Nat shot the bites at her and it didn't work.
That's like saying Thor isn't affected by a punch from a normal guy.It's not writers, it because he is a Fing god.

He was still in good enough shape to jump higher than humanly possible by a lot and kick of heavy jointed doors not unlike vault doors.He has a super-soldier formula.

Again Nat isn't a super-soldier.Even in comics where she is she isn't as strong as Bucky or Cap.She had Cap's shield and Bucky owned her and stole the shield back even though he didn't want to fight.
And my point is that she isn't as physical combat effective as the rest even by shear strength.Only one she is comparable to is Hawkeye.Rest are super-soldiers of much much higher.

Again there's arrogant and then there's stupid.He is a soldier with experience.

How was she nerfed In Winter soldier?Please Elaborate
The fact you think widow is a top 5 MCU movie shows your delusion in in of itself.

And glad to know you ignored my Hawkeye example.And you justify character assasiantion by saying it's not their movie... smh.

[Spider-Chan]

Bruh what effort do you think she was putting when her car got flipped 20 times by a RPG.And an exploding arrow.
Or when she dropped from a high tower onto solid things.

She doesn't have actual superpowers y'know....

She's a highly trained individual who will pull any trick she can and knows if she wants to survive. But if she felt that her death was required in order to save humanity, then she will not pull any of her stunts and just let it be.

[Dipter]

The movie was fun, my family and I enjoyed it. The action was a step above the average Marvel movie, but in all honesty I was never thrilled. It's been seven years and they still haven't topped Winter Soldier's hand-to-hand combat choreography. My biggest gripe is that the movie went overboard with the climax. It's a spy espionage film after all, it would have been the perfect opportunity to break away from the formula and have a smaller, more personal set piece for the final battle, but instead they go full Star Wars and blow up a Death Star. The older I get, the less explosions I can tolerate, its just becomes white noise after a while.
The character building and sappy found family drama was the more effective stuff for me. It's also the funniest film Marvel has produced in years. The comedy doesn't feel awkward or forced, mainly because Florence Pugh and David Harbour are naturally charismatic actors with great line delivery. The whole cast is amazing, but despite being the protagonist, Natasha often feels like the least interesting character.

[Spiderfan001]

For the comments regarding previous the shows of sexism in previous Black Widow outings, I read this Times article: https://time.com/6077666/black-widow...ett-johansson/

That's where I found the quote regarding the pose and its possible intent. There were other quotes like this:



All those other films there were "countless indignities" against Nat? That made me wince. I always felt that Natasha was respected in those films. Her role as a key member of the Avengers, that she was a "badass" spy who could take down any of these heroes, these qualities were never in doubt. At least not for me. I disagreed with those comments. HOWEVER, I can see where they come from. Yes Natasha has been strong. But has she been the focus? That's why I can accept the decisions in the Black Widow movie. They highlight her and not detract from the male Avengers. Again, we all know the difference between Captain America and General Dreykov.



Yo, thanks for this quote bro. Lots of humor behind that. Love it.

This.
Even in her first movie she accomplished all her tasks
1)Got close to Stark for info
2)Hot location from hammer via interrogation
3)Broke in the facility and made happy look like a fool(twice that is, once in the boxing ring)
4)Helped Tony in the final battle via info

I find it hilarious that in the movies promotion ScarJo said she was just a thing when she just used her looks to her advantage and the guys suffered for it.
Happy made a comment undermining her fighting skills because of her gender, got owned in the ring.
Tony treated her like a thing, she got close to him and got all the info she needed using him and accomplishing her mission.

[Spiderfan001]

She's a highly trained individual who will pull any trick she can and knows if she wants to survive. But if she felt that her death was required in order to save humanity, then she will not pull any of her stunts and just let it be.

Cool.
But what trick do you think she pulled when we saw all she did was hold the top of the car.She was taken by surprise.
Both car crashes would have killed her, the falling from that tower would have killed or crippled her.

Stop making excuses, your reasoning is as competent as people saying Batman could take out the Specter(a god being) because he's Batman.

[Dipter]

This isn't something worth arguing over, the same inconsistencies exist in the comics. Characters are invincible until the writer decides that they're not.

[Spider-Chan]

Cool.
But what trick do you think she pulled when we saw all she did was hold the top of the car.She was taken by surprise.
Both car crashes would have killed her, the falling from that tower would have killed or crippled her.

Stop making excuses, your reasoning is as competent as people saying Batman could take out the Specter(a god being) because he's Batman.

Dude, it's a movie. She has fought aliens, surviving a car crash or surviving a fall is basic stuff that happens in nearly every James Bond or Fast & Furious movie. Where you this dense when in Skyfall Bond got shot to the head, fell from moving train on a bridge, to a river that was 20 meters under, and still survived????

And seriously, why are you so obsessed that no Avenger make a cameo? Were you this obsessed when in Ant-Man and the Wasp no Avenger made any cameo either despite that at that point Scott had met them?

[Spiderfan001]

Dude, it's a movie. She has fought aliens, surviving a car crash or surviving a fall is basic stuff that happens in nearly every James Bond or Fast & Furious movie.

And seriously, why are you so obsessed that no Avenger make a cameo? Were you this obsessed when in Ant-Man and the Wasp no Avenger made any cameo either despite that at that point Scott had met them?

Yeah, I just made a jokingly observation.You were the one tried and rationalize it.If anything you are the one who needs to realize it's a movie.
And have you seen how much fun people make of the F and F movies.

And clearly know you are wrong since you bring a discussion you are not part of into this.
1)The cameo made sense since she joins the avengers after this.Seeing Cap with the quinjet would have been liked by most.Hell seeing any of them would have been cool.
2)Because of the reason which was stupid and a little sexist.Having a male cameo doesn't degrade Nat same way a female cameo would not degrade a male lead.

[Spiderfan001]

This isn't something worth arguing over, the same inconsistencies exist in the comics. Characters are invincible until the writer decides that they're not.

Ik.
Spider-Chan was the one who tried to justify it by saying she used her skills to survive which is clearly untrue.

[Spider-Chan]

Yeah, I just made a jokingly observation.You were the one tried and rationalize it.If anything you are the one who needs to realize it's a movie.
And have you seen how much fun people make of the F and F movies.

And clearly know you are wrong since you bring a discussion you are not part of into this.
1)The cameo made sense since she joins the avengers after this.Seeing Cap with the quinjet would have been liked by most.Hell seeing any of them would have been cool.
2)Because of the reason which was stupid and a little sexist.Having a male cameo doesn't degrade Nat same way a female cameo would not degrade a male lead.

Oh yes, "I was joking", the typical response when you can no longer justify your arguments.

You're the one who has brought that "argument" over and over in this thread, way before I even responded to you, but now it turns out you were joking. We're done here.

PS: Stop watching you tubers who probably use the term sjw or "go woke go broke" unironically.

[chicago_bastard]

No it doesn't work on him because of the damage he took from the helicarrier crash.He was clearly amped up.He even said so when Nat shot the bites at her and it didn't work.
That's like saying Thor isn't affected by a punch from a normal guy.It's not writers, it because he is a Fing god.

He was still in good enough shape to jump higher than humanly possible by a lot and kick of heavy jointed doors not unlike vault doors.He has a super-soldier formula.

Again Nat isn't a super-soldier.Even in comics where she is she isn't as strong as Bucky or Cap.She had Cap's shield and Bucky owned her and stole the shield back even though he didn't want to fight.
And my point is that she isn't as physical combat effective as the rest even by shear strength.Only one she is comparable to is Hawkeye.Rest are super-soldiers of much much higher.

Again there's arrogant and then there's stupid.He is a soldier with experience.

How was she nerfed In Winter soldier?Please Elaborate
The fact you think widow is a top 5 MCU movie shows your delusion in in of itself.

And glad to know you ignored my Hawkeye example.And you justify character assasiantion by saying it's not their movie... smh.

Your reading comprehension is obviously as bad as your understanding of movie intent. I already derailed the thread enough by encouraging your pointless ramblings so I'll ignore you from now on in the hope that some more serious discussion points arise.

[Spiderfan001]

Oh yes, "I was joking", the typical response when you can no longer justify your arguments.

You're the one who has brought that "argument" over and over in this thread, way before I even responded to you, but now it turns out you were joking. We're done here.

PS: Stop watching you tubers who probably use the term sjw or "go woke go broke" unironically.

The video I linked was a comedy.I made the point under said link.

It wasn't an argument.Just a observation that she survives so much yet dies by fall damage in endgame.

I said fall damage, does that seem like something serious to you.

P.S. get a life

[Spiderfan001]

Your reading comprehension is obviously as bad as your understanding of movie intent. I already derailed the thread enough by encouraging your pointless ramblings so I'll ignore you from now on in the hope that some more serious discussion points arise.

Ah yes.Nothing left to say so take the moral high ground.

Sure thing bud

[chicago_bastard]

Hey all. Comicbook.com has interviews with the writer of the Black Widow movie. Here is a link regarding the decision to change the identity of Taskmaster. Turns out, it was originally going to be Tony Masters!:

https://comicbook.com/marvel/news/bl...-eric-pearson/

Here are the writer's thoughts on the post-credits scene:

https://comicbook.com/marvel/news/bl...ter-interview/

Thanks for the links. To me he succeeded in his intent of making it a greatest hits of the character, I really enjoyed all the callbacks.

Then again this quote

"That's me! I want to take a serious moment and then flush it down the toilet. Like, I want to take that great moment where Yelena is truly having a moment of quiet reflection with her lost sister and then have Julia Louis-Dreyfus blow her nose and just be so ruthlessly pragmatic about everything."

shows that it's still the same guy who also wrote Thor: Ragnarok. Well, at least he was able to restrain himself for most of the movie and didn't ruin every dramatic moment.

[tsaimelemoni]

This was a pretty good movie! I can't say I wasn't entertained throughout, and the family aspect was really well done. And of course, Pugh is proving herself a worthy successor and I'm interested to see how she's utilized moving forward.

If there's one nag I had, spoilers:

how did Nat disentangle from Ross at the end? It didn't need much, but some expanding of her escape would have been good. Otherwise it kind of feels like we didn't need that minor plot point. Granted, we could return to it in future media so I'm not too bothered overall. And RE Taskmaster - I'm sure his fans will be upset, but I think the reveal/role worked for this story. Like Yelena, I'm interested to see Antonia's future.

end of spoilers

I'm curious - how did you guys watch it? I did the Disney+ option and kind of loved watching from home.