Should Jason Todd Have Stayed Dead?

[Comics N' Toons]

Nah. I like the effect that his death had on him and Bruce; and how it eventually led to Tim. Jason's is one of few examples where I feel like a character resurrecting didn't cheapen their death.

You have a point there... but Batman might not have turned into such an ******* IF Jason hadnt died. That's something else that few have mentioned here... The hard trauma that Bruce experienced from Jay's death!

[Jackalope89]

You have a point there... but Batman might not have turned into such an ******* IF Jason hadnt died. That's something else that few have mentioned here... The hard trauma that Bruce experienced from Jay's death!

While it makes literary sense, that's not ultimately why they made Bruce into Batjerk. Frank Miller's The Dark Knight dark and edgy series, combined with the grimdark of Killing Joke (both big moneymakers then and now, sadly), propelled Batjerk to be the de facto version we got stuck with.

[Comics N' Toons]

While it makes literary sense, that's not ultimately why they made Bruce into Batjerk. Frank Miller's The Dark Knight dark and edgy series, combined with the grimdark of Killing Joke (both big moneymakers then and now, sadly), propelled Batjerk to be the de facto version we got stuck with.

yeah... that's correct. I've explained as much in other threads. I blame the JLA Bat-god interpretation by one, Mr. Morrison, for a lot of that too, as much as I blame the later Knightfall writers too.

[TooFlyToFail]

He’s been reduced to backups and an overpriced Batman anthology. All while they introduce new characters and further incorporate outside characters that touch on similar themes and ideas. He might be better off then characters at the very bottom of the bat queue, but it seems like he’s on his way. They’re reducing their output with him while creating more and more redundancy in his areas. That rarely turns out to be a good thing. Aahz made a good point though, his other media output is good and that’s a positive that should give him at least some insolation.

I think they should really try to push him as the anti-Batman finally. Put him in charge of the League, and have him go on morally ambiguous globe trotting adventures that allow him to experiment with his swaying beliefs. Maybe he's trying to change the League for the better, but gets put in more compromising positions as a leader. Have him make deals, work with and/or take jobs for people like Lex, Black Adam, Waller and Slade.

Would love a writer like Warren Ellis, Cullen Bunn, Rick Remender or Brubaker to take that on. If only.

Any of Declan Shalvey, Matteo Scalera, Wes Craig or Greg Smallwood would be my dream artist.

*sighs in depression*

[John Venus]

I remember the 'Jason will be dead forever' days.

His original death has lost it's impact now that both Damian and Tim Drake have both died and been brought back (albeit in Tim's case he was never dead to begin with).

His resurrection was only a shocker in the story that brought him back and it hasn't been very consequential since. The whole 'bad boy of the Bat Family' aspect has been played out.

[Aahz]

While it makes literary sense, that's not ultimately why they made Bruce into Batjerk. Frank Miller's The Dark Knight dark and edgy series, combined with the grimdark of Killing Joke (both big moneymakers then and now, sadly), propelled Batjerk to be the de facto version we got stuck with.

IIRC he didn't really turn into Batjerk untill much later, I think the point were it really happend was iirc more Knightfall or No Man's Land not TKJ or DItF.

[Jim Kelly]

I object to Jason's rebirth just on principle. They went to all the trouble of destroying his character and killing him off in the first place, just to replace him in short order with yet another Robin that wasn't far different. It exposes the cavalier attitude editorial had toward the readership.

On top of that, the way that Jason was brought back to life is not dissimilar from the way dead Alfred was brought back to life during the "New Look" in a very convoluted and ridiculous story that made him the Outsider. And that kind of silly science fiction is what supposedly the much more serious-minded Batman had gotten away from. You can't condemn "camp" Batman on the one hand and then use all the same tropes for the dour Batman on the other hand. It's the height of hypocrisy.

[CrimsonEchidna]

I have nothing against his resurrection per se, but I feel like Jason Todd is the prime example of the Super Hero comics' industry of recycling it's greatest hits over and over again.

The character has now more or less been resurrected as long as he was previously dead. How many times over the past 15 years have they beaten the dead horse of Jason not being able to handle his anger and wanting to kill criminals? I think reading Three Jokers really reinforced this in me.

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

I have nothing against his resurrection per se, but I feel like Jason Todd is the prime example of the Super Hero comics' industry of recycling it's greatest hits over and over again.

The character has now more or less been resurrected as long as he was previously dead. How many times over the past 15 years have they beaten the dead horse of Jason not being able to handle his anger and wanting to kill criminals? I think reading Three Jokers really reinforced this in me.

I mean, you could say that of pretty much any character in the Big Two comics nowadays.

[Trt-R5]

To what ends though. He found friends, he did various random things, and you tell us he stepped out of both Bruce and The Joker's shadow despite there being no actual tangible display of that. Ok, but what does that all actually mean. Seems he's now suppose to be a healthier person. But what does him being a healthy person actually mean and what does he now do. He's moved on, but to what then? Moving on for the sake of moving on is pointless. It's like having him ride off into the sunset but with no actual finality. If FS and Urban Legends is any indication, it don't seem like it is being taken into account. Cause honestly what are they suppose to do with that.

That's basically the curse of being a bat kid. Dick also supposedly stepped away from batman's shadow, and yet it was what happened in a batman book that gave him a 2 years trainwreck of a run, it was batman who gave him his suit, and in a way, nightwing back, the same identity that was supposed to have nothing to do with batman. And in titans rebirth he also followed Batman's orders, even when it meant going against his team best interest. I'm not saying this to try and pull down nightwing's character (he's my second favourite hero) but it's not only Jason that has suffered from writers not knowing what to do with the character. Damian is also, once again, in his al ghul phase just to come back as Robin in a few months or years. Tim doesn't even appear in most things nowadays and when he does he's eternally 16.
Back to Jason I agree that there wasn't really a aim for his actions (due to lobdell's way "of writing in the moment" and not planing ahead) but I don't agree that he hasn't develloped at all in the last 10 years. While you have Tom king butchering the character for Twitter laughs from time to time, at least he hasn't been written as psychotic maniac like in Batman of the cowl or morrison's batman and Robin. So there has been at least some change for the better
And he has some sort of established base for his character: disagrees with the way crime should be fought and his willing to do "bad things" for the greater good. Yes that has been scrapped for a while so he can appear in batfamily events. But hopefully a writer like chip zdarsky or some other take him back to that kind of not villain but ideologically antagonistic place with the family, the same way I hope tom Taylor gets Dick back to his rightful place as an A list character.
PS. And yes, I think he should kill (just not random thugs)

[Trt-R5]

I think they should really try to push him as the anti-Batman finally. Put him in charge of the League, and have him go on morally ambiguous globe trotting adventures that allow him to experiment with his swaying beliefs. Maybe he's trying to change the League for the better, but gets put in more compromising positions as a leader. Have him make deals, work with and/or take jobs for people like Lex, Black Adam, Waller and Slade.

Would love a writer like Warren Ellis, Cullen Bunn, Rick Remender or Brubaker to take that on. If only.

Any of Declan Shalvey, Matteo Scalera, Wes Craig or Greg Smallwood would be my dream artist.

*sighs in depression*

I... I really like this.

[SixSpeedSamurai]

Jason, like Barry should have stayed dead. Most meaningful deaths in comics.

[Alpha]

I think they should really try to push him as the anti-Batman finally. Put him in charge of the League, and have him go on morally ambiguous globe trotting adventures that allow him to experiment with his swaying beliefs. Maybe he's trying to change the League for the better, but gets put in more compromising positions as a leader. Have him make deals, work with and/or take jobs for people like Lex, Black Adam, Waller and Slade.

Would love a writer like Warren Ellis, Cullen Bunn, Rick Remender or Brubaker to take that on. If only.

Any of Declan Shalvey, Matteo Scalera, Wes Craig or Greg Smallwood would be my dream artist.

*sighs in depression*

Jason has always been a punk. I think he should stay a punk. It doesn't mean he is stupid, it just means he doesn't embrace traditions and etiquette. I don't see why the league would want him or why he would want the league. Damian already fills that spot.

[Alpha]

That's basically the curse of being a bat kid. Dick also supposedly stepped away from batman's shadow, and yet it was what happened in a batman book that gave him a 2 years trainwreck of a run, it was batman who gave him his suit, and in a way, nightwing back, the same identity that was supposed to have nothing to do with batman. And in titans rebirth he also followed Batman's orders, even when it meant going against his team best interest. I'm not saying this to try and pull down nightwing's character (he's my second favourite hero) but it's not only Jason that has suffered from writers not knowing what to do with the character. Damian is also, once again, in his al ghul phase just to come back as Robin in a few months or years. Tim doesn't even appear in most things nowadays and when he does he's eternally 16.
Back to Jason I agree that there wasn't really a aim for his actions (due to lobdell's way "of writing in the moment" and not planing ahead) but I don't agree that he hasn't develloped at all in the last 10 years. While you have Tom king butchering the character for Twitter laughs from time to time, at least he hasn't been written as psychotic maniac like in Batman of the cowl or morrison's batman and Robin. So there has been at least some change for the better
And he has some sort of established base for his character: disagrees with the way crime should be fought and his willing to do "bad things" for the greater good. Yes that has been scrapped for a while so he can appear in batfamily events. But hopefully a writer like chip zdarsky or some other take him back to that kind of not villain but ideologically antagonistic place with the family, the same way I hope tom Taylor gets Dick back to his rightful place as an A list character.
PS. And yes, I think he should kill (just not random thugs)

I don't think Ric Grayson was Tom King's idea. Maybe he decided to have Dick take a bullet in the head, but the whole amnesia thing didn't benefit Tom King's plans in any way. I think it was either an editorial decision or pitch by whoever wrote Dick Grayson at the time. Plus Tom King entered the Batman world writing Dick during the Spyral era. I'm sure he cared somewhat about Dick.

[Jackalope89]

Jason has always been a punk. I think he should stay a punk. It doesn't mean he is stupid, it just means he doesn't embrace traditions and etiquette. I don't see why the league would want him or why he would want the league. Damian already fills that spot.

First I've heard of it. As Robin, he was a good Robin. It wasn't until DC decided they wanted to off him that they tried to destroy his character, and then kill him in a brutal manner. Anyway, his time as Robin had scenes like this in it;



Helping Donna realize that not only does she have to be a leader, but she has the ability to do so, while giving her support as a friend.