Should Jason Todd Have Stayed Dead?

[Comics N' Toons]

Should Jason Todd Have Stayed Dead? Was his resurrection just a stunt? Did his resurrection de-legitimize the Death in the Family storyline at all?

Is Jason better as Red Hood or is the Todd Red Hood character too similar to other characters?

[lemonpeace]

he's been back about as long as he was dead, and he's been alive as a character longer than he's been dead; I think it's safe to say none of these questions matter anymore.

should he stay dead? doesn't matter, he's been back for almost 20 years. was his resurrection a stunt? doesn't matter, his whole death was a stunt. does it delegitimize the story? doesn't matter, continuity resets and reboots already undercut and delegitimize the story; which, again, was a editorial stunt in the first place.

is he better as Red Hood as opposed to dead and not really a character? Red Hood I guess. is he too similar to other characters? is Batman or Aquaman or Thor or Black Panther or....[continues on into infinitum to illustrate how silly a question that was]

[a moment closer]

Jason Todd stayed dead for quite a bit of time before being reintroduced. The way he was resurrected and the villainization of his character only added nuance to the Death In The Family storyline and frankly made Jason Todd interesting for the first time. I do feel like that was one death that could've stuck and the world of Batman would be just fine without the Red Hood. What's crazy is that he's had one of the most consistent solo/team books since he's come back. Or, at least since the new 52. He's a much richer character thankfully and I really enjoy having him around. The Bat-family is so large and varied now. I love it! We get to be greedy and have them all because the line sells so well. As far as whether or not he's too similar to other characters in the DCU is irrelevant since he's pretty unique in his corner of the universe. Now that Grifter is joining the Gotham scene we'll see how much the two of them differ from each other.

How do you feel about it all?

[Bad Witch]

Of course he shouldn't of stayed dead...red hood is a bad ass. It took a stunt by d.c. And made it into mythology. Look at how much depth red hood has brought to the bat family. Look how much depth red hood has brought to joker..if Jason stayed dead all be ever would have been is a robin the fans voted to die. . There are tons of other examples of d.c. Doing dumb **** and Jason Todd coming back from the dead as a bad ass is not one of them

I'm really hoping zdarsky gets a red hood book coming out of urban legends. I'm praying to the gods it happens. It might short change daredevil but it will be worth it...

[Godlike13]

Clownhunter, Ghostmaker, Harley in the family, and now Grifter coming to town. Things aren’t looking great for Red Hood. For too long he existed for Lobdell, and now he’s just there. UtRH was an interesting yet flawed story, but the idea was solid. The mistake I think is how far they have gotten away from the idea now with Red Hood.

[a moment closer]

A question not asked is a wasted opportunity to learn. There are no stupid questions, just stupid answers.

[Comics N' Toons]

How do you feel about it all?

Well, I asked the questions because I wanted to get other fan takes. I have a weird or minority opinion on Todd. The question was dumb perhaps to Red Hood fans or those who appreciate 21st century continuity... I loved the Max Allan Collins origin. I loved Collins few stories with Todd and really enjoyed the character under Starlin before Starlin made him a snotty brat. I love A Death in the Family and consider it one of the best Bat stories of all time. I find Jason to be a very tragic character. I did not like Under The Red Hood comic with Superboy Prime as the catalyst... but I really liked that movie. I am in the minority BUT I prefer him as Robin (in his 80's adventures and then... prefer him dead.

Todd shined as Robin in Mike Barr's Detective run (one of my fav. runs on Detective Comics)

[a moment closer]

I'll have to check out his origin story. I only remember him being a little brat version of Robin before being killed. I agree with you, Jason is a very tragic character that could've stayed dead and kept his value in that respect.

[Zaresh]

Should Jason Todd Have Stayed Dead? Was his resurrection just a stunt? Did his resurrection de-legitimize the Death in the Family storyline at all?

Is Jason better as Red Hood or is the Todd Red Hood character too similar to other characters?

_{Why some people need to ask stuff like this one all the time? It sounds like someone wanting to invalidate a character plenty of other people enjoy. People like me. I keep thinking this every time someone ask stuff like this. But this time? I'm going to speak my mind. This is my fave character in all DC and it hurts when someone puts his existence in doubt.}

Jason is fine being resurrected. Killing him was unfair, a really tasteless choice, that in the end amount to nothing, or very little; and not because he was resurrected, no. They didn't get rid of the concept of Robin. They didn't get rid of a new Robin. And batman rarely remembered his dead anymore: his grief lasted for like a decade or so, and Jason's death wasn't a motivator for Bruce to do anything that would change his character, code or motivation for being a vigilante. I'm going to go and say that his spiral into the grumpy, unfriendly, antisocial Batman we have nowadays, in universe, was way more because of all the story arcs from the early of the 90's to the most early 00's. Sure, people like to say that him being brutal happened because grief, but the true is, that grief didn't last long. Out of universe it was because Miller and the general mood in the 90's.

But then he was killed, and he was resurrected, and his story was a nice read, probably not a masterpiece, sure: but enjoyable enough that it keeps being rehearsed in other media and universes. He has a lot of fans (sure, probably more out of comics that in the comics). And he fills a spot that's empty in the batfam, and isn't so easy to come across the whole DC: the anti-hero who falls into the grey zone, and the fallen hero. And also, the underdog.

So yeah, he's fine being alive again. It wasn't a stunt. And Death in the Family is a badly aged story that wasn't too good to begin with, to be honest (I don't mean to offend anyone, just my sincere opinion).

And he wasn't really a brat, until short before his death.

[Comics N' Toons]

_{Why some people need to ask stuff like this one all the time? It sounds like someone wanting to invalidate a character plenty of other people enjoy. People like me. I keep thinking this every time someone ask stuff like this. But this time? I'm going to speak my mind. This is my fave character in all DC and it hurts when someone puts his existence in doubt.}

Jason is fine being resurrected. Killing him was unfair, a really tasteless choice, that in the end amount to nothing, or very little; and not because he was resurrected, no. They didn't get ride of the concept of Robin. They didn't get ride of a new Robin. And batman rarely remembered his dead anymore: his grief lasted for like a decade or so, and Jason's death wasn't a motivator for Bruce to do anything that would change his character, code or motivation for being a vigilante. I'm going to go and say that his spiral into the grumpy, unfriendly, antisocial Batman we have nowadays, in universe, was way more because of all the story arcs from the early of the 90's to the most early 00's. Sure, people like to say that him being brutal happened because grief, but the true is, that grief didn't last long. Out of universe it was because Miller and the general mood in the 90's.

But then he was killed, and he was resurrected, and his story was a nice read, probably not a masterpiece, sure: but enjoyable enough that it keeps being rehearsed in other media and universes. He has a lot of fans (sure, probably more out of comics that in the comics). And he fills a spot that's empty in the batfam, and isn't so easy to come across the whole DC: the anti-hero who falls into the grey zone, and the fallen hero. And also, the underdog.

So yeah, he's fine being alive again. It wasn't a stunt. And Death in the Family is a badly aged story that wasn't too good to begin with, to be honest (I don't mean to offend anyone, just my sincere opinion).

And he wasn't really a brat, until short before his death.

Well, I'm not trying to invalidate any character for anyone... just wanting opinions. I'm glad you love the Red Hood version... more power to you. There's room for all kinds of interpretations and different headcanons. I prefer the Todd character to stay dead because I find him more tragic that way... He has more value, for me, in that respect.
Did Marvel copy the Red Hood character with Bucky/Winter Soldier or was it the other way around.

[Hannibal]

Red Hood has the biggest potential of all bat-family. Deepest backstory and different from any of them.

I hope Zdarsky gets a Red Hood solo after urban legends.

[Zaresh]

Well, I'm not trying to invalidate any character for anyone... just wanting opinions. I'm glad you love the Red Hood version... more power to you. There's room for all kinds of interpretations and different headcanons. I prefer the Todd character to stay dead because I find him more tragic that way... He has more value, for me, in that respect.

I haven't read all the Robin era batman/detective comics, just some pre-crisis, some post-crisis; but so far, I like Jason as both Robin and Red Hood. I won't agree to see A Death in the Family as a story that puts Jason in value, though. Why? For starters, in order to sell the concept, the writer had to change his personality to be unlikeable like three or two months before that story started. And I hate when writers do stuff like that. Look at The Cult, by Starlin himself: how different is the Jason there from the one in that Diplomat son's story. Then, there's the problem that he lasts, what, an issue and half? in A Death in the Family. And he's put into the maybe-killed place for shock value (another gimmick I hate); they wanted to get rid of Robin, and sell comics. Shock value sells comics, incapacitating him helps retiring him from Robin: two birds one crowbar. And then he's killed by^ a bunch of votes. I think not even the writer though he was going to be voted dead. And then everything else afterwards is about how angry Bruce is, and about the Joker and his criminal plot. That story isn't about Robin being killed: it's about Bruce failling, same as most of Starlin stuff that year. And then, here comes DC and the repeating idea about Jason being the one who got himself killed, somehow, that he was disobeying Bruce and putting himself into willing danger; when he just did what any other bat or hero does: he saw someone in danger, and tried to help. And he was ultimately betrayed by" a parental figure, which is a hard thing to blame him for, because he was like 14. What he did that was rebellious? As far as I recall, runaway, travelling around the world looking for a biomom, because he couldn't wait and thought Bruce wouldn't or couldn't help (this part it's kind of blurry in my memories, but I think it was something like that. Bronze age comics were still pretty fast paced). But then Bruce finds him and helps him. I don't like A Death in the Family much, nor think it did anything good to the character. If anything, it helped morphing his image more^ as the bad robin years later^, somehow.

Just my passionate opinion. Again, you seem to see something good in that story. That's good.

Did Marvel copy the Red Hood character with Bucky/Winter Soldier or was it the other way around.

Hmmm, if I recall, they were released within a year and a half difference. The concept for Jason coming back, as an idea, it's within two years, I think. Maybe Under the Hood/Hush played some kind of inspiration, but I don't think it weighted much. The Winter Soldier story is way different, and it's the better book, if you ask me.

[Comics N' Toons]

I haven't read all the Robin era batman/detective comics, just some pre-crisis, some post-crisis; but so far, I like Jason as both Robin and Red Hood. I won't agree to see A Death in the Family as a story that puts Jason in value, though. Why? For starters, in order to sell the concept, the writer had to change his personality to be unlikeable like three or two months before that story started. And I hate when writers do stuff like that. Look at The Cult, by Starlin himself: how different is the Jason there from the one in that Diplomat son's story. Then, there's the problem that he lasts, what, an issue and half? in A Death in the Family. And he's put into the maybe-killed place for shock value (another gimmick I hate); they wanted to get rid of Robin, and sell comics. Shock value sells comics, incapacitating him helps retiring him from Robin: two birds one crowbar. And then he's killed for a bunch of votes. I think not even the writer though he was going to be voted dead. And then everything else afterwards is about how angry Bruce is, and about the Joker and his criminal plot. That story isn't about Robin being killed: it's about Bruce failling, same as most of Starlin stuff that year. And then, here comes DC and the repeating idea about Jason being the one who got himself killed, somehow, that he was disobeying Bruce and putting himself into willing danger; when he just did what any other bat or hero does: he saw someone in danger, and tried to help. And he was ultimately betrayed for a parental figure, which is a hard thing to blame him for, because he was like 14. What he did that was rebellious? As far as I recall, runaway, travelling around the world looking for a biomom, because he couldn't wait and thought Bruce wouldn't or couldn't help (this part it's kind of blurry in my memories, but I think it was something like that. Bronze age comics were still pretty fast paced). But then Bruce finds him and helps him. I don't like A Death in the Family much, nor think it did anything good to the character. If anything, it helped morphing his image as the bad robin more years layer somehow.

Just my passionate opinion. Again, you seem to see something good in that story. That's good.



Hmmm, if I recall, they were released within a year and a half difference. The concept for Jason coming back, as an idea, it's within two years, I think. Maybe Under the Hood/Hush played some kind of inspiration, but I don't think it weighted much. The Winter Soldier story is way different, and it's the better book, if you ask me.

Well... thanks for respecting my opinion... I have never been able to put my finger on it, but I just love the Batman books best from the period of 86 to about 1991. As far as Winter Soldier... the plot is similar... long dead sidekick gets resurrected... And I agree with you there... Winter Soldier is a better story for me too... miles ahead of Winnick's Red Hood thing.

[Timothy Hunter]

Yes he should have stayed dead.

[Aahz]

Clownhunter, Ghostmaker, Harley in the family, and now Grifter coming to town. Things aren’t looking great for Red Hood.

Don't think so, he is kind of struggling in the comics, since the Batman writers are for some reason not able to write him properly (even if they can do so with similar characters), but he is still pretty strong in other media.