Should Jason Todd Have Stayed Dead?

[scary harpy]

He should have never died.

I am glad he's alive.

[Sergard]

Should Jason Todd Have Stayed Dead? Was his resurrection just a stunt? Did his resurrection de-legitimize the Death in the Family storyline at all?

Is Jason better as Red Hood or is the Todd Red Hood character too similar to other characters?

From what perspective? The company is definitely earning more money with Red Hood then with a dead Robin. Jason Todd as Red Hood (or Arkham Knight) even managed to bring new readers (like me) in. Even "Death in the Family" sells better thanks to the resurrection.

Obviously, as a fan of the character, I'm biased - similarly to people who don't like the character are biased too but the other way around. But even as a fan I'm slowly reaching a point where I sometimes think: Maybe it would have been better if Jason had stayed dead. Jason is the only reason why I'm reading DC comics. And most of the times DC comics as a whole are just awful. When I read the superhero genre then I want to read about good people trying to make the world a better place - not about power-fantasies, narcissists and writers pushing their favorites by sabotaging or belittling other characters. Toxic fan-bases aren't helpful either.

Red Hood has his own corner. He is the hard-worker-type. He had a bad childhood but thanks to that he can understand people who are in a similar position. He is compassionate and empathetic. He is flawed and knows first-hand what happens if you stare into the abyss. But thanks to that he can reach people that other ("perfect") heroes will never reach. Jason Todd is the only DC character I know that has ex-criminals as close friends. Rehabilitation was a reoccurring theme in his Outlaws runs. And I love rehabilitation. On the other hand, DC really made me dislike heroes with a no-kill rule. We've reached a point where it's just cringe. I don't care how obsessed DC writers are with trying to prove that a strict no-kill-rule is morally superior to everything else. It's a wrong assessment. Sometimes killing somebody is the right thing to do. And death isn't always the worst fate. But that's getting off-topic already.

[Godlike13]

Don't think so, he is kind of struggling in the comics, since the Batman writers are for some reason not able to write him properly (even if they can do so with similar characters), but he is still pretty strong in other media.

That’s a fair point.

[Arsenal]

Should Jason Todd Have Stayed Dead? Was his resurrection just a stunt? Did his resurrection de-legitimize the Death in the Family storyline at all?

Is Jason better as Red Hood or is the Todd Red Hood character too similar to other characters?

Should Jason Todd have stayed dead? No.
Was his resurrection just a stunt? It would have been had he died during or shortly after UtRH. But since it's been over 15 years since than and he's still around, I'd say it's fairly safe to say it's not a stunt.

Did it delegitimize Death in the Family? No, it did not, simply because he still died and his death had a significant impact on him post resurrection. The only thing that delegitimizes death is either it being later retconned that said character didn't actually die like previously believed or for a character to come back from death and it have no significant impact on them afterwards. That is what discredits death in comics, not the act of resurrection itself.

Clownhunter, Ghostmaker, Harley in the family, and now Grifter coming to town. Things aren’t looking great for Red Hood. For too long he existed for Lobdell, and now he’s just there. UtRH was an interesting yet flawed story, but the idea was solid. The mistake I think is how far they have gotten away from the idea now with Red Hood.

Really? The way I see it, of all the Bats (or hell, even DC heroes in general) without their own books, it seems like he's honestly in the best position (comic wise) outside of maybe Babs. Lobdell's gone and now he has 2 months under Williamson's pen followed by 6 months under Zdarsky's. After that... who knows? There's nothing guaranteed beyond that but that's still a much stronger start than a lot of other characters are getting in 2021's new status quo.

[Buried Alien]

Considering his newfound popularity since his return, I would say the answer is a resounding "no." Jason just might be the best example of a previously unpopular character being completely rehabilitated in superhero comics history.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Restingvoice]

Should Jason Todd Have Stayed Dead? Was his resurrection just a stunt? Did his resurrection de-legitimize the Death in the Family storyline at all?

Is Jason better as Red Hood or is the Todd Red Hood character too similar to other characters?

Jason should've stayed alive.

I don't know. I only heard he's only meant to be a villain in that one story but he turns out popular so they continue.

Death in The Family is not a legitimate story since it's cashing in on a child hero death because some adults don't like that there's a child hero alongside their ideal concept of Batman when it's 44 years too late for that.

He's cooler as Red Hood and more interesting because of the ideological difference with Batman, but I don't know about better, since a mouthy street kid but smart Robin can bring different perspective that I don't think they realized properly because they only view these characters as brand.

The tell is that at first they want to deage Dick and decided to make the first Jason a copy of Dick so they can have a Robin, so I don't believe they really invested on his difference with Dick or Bruce.

What other characters?

[adrikito]

NO. He is cool..

Even with the bad previous Outlaws run I always thought that he was cool and the last one was Great. No reasons to think that he should have stayed dead.

[Godlike13]

Really? The way I see it, of all the Bats (or hell, even DC heroes in general) without their own books, it seems like he's honestly in the best position (comic wise) outside of maybe Babs. Lobdell's gone and now he has 2 months under Williamson's pen followed by 6 months under Zdarsky's. After that... who knows? There's nothing guaranteed beyond that but that's still a much stronger start than a lot of other characters are getting in 2021's new status quo.

He’s been reduced to backups and an overpriced Batman anthology. All while they introduce new characters and further incorporate outside characters that touch on similar themes and ideas. He might be better off then characters at the very bottom of the bat queue, but it seems like he’s on his way. They’re reducing their output with him while creating more and more redundancy in his areas. That rarely turns out to be a good thing. Aahz made a good point though, his other media output is good and that’s a positive that should give him at least some insolation.

[Arsenal]

He’s been reduced to backups and an overpriced Batman anthology. All while they introduce new characters and further incorporate outside characters that touch on similar themes and ideas. He might be better off then characters at the very bottom of the bat queue, but it seems like he’s on his way. They’re reducing their output with him while creating more and more redundancy in his areas. That rarely turns out to be a good thing. Aahz made a good point though, his other media output is good and that’s a positive that should give him at least some insolation.

That is true, however I still think (comic wise) he’s currently in a better position than any Bat not named Bruce, Dick or Babs.

Plus his popularity outside of comics is strong enough to sustain him while the clown hunters and Ghost hunters of the world come & go.

[Zaresh]

From what perspective? The company is definitely earning more money with Red Hood then with a dead Robin. Jason Todd as Red Hood (or Arkham Knight) even managed to bring new readers (like me) in. Even "Death in the Family" sells better thanks to the resurrection.

Obviously, as a fan of the character, I'm biased - similarly to people who don't like the character are biased too but the other way around. But even as a fan I'm slowly reaching a point where I sometimes think: Maybe it would have been better if Jason had stayed dead. Jason is the only reason why I'm reading DC comics. And most of the times DC comics as a whole are just awful. When I read the superhero genre then I want to read about good people trying to make the world a better place - not about power-fantasies, narcissists and writers pushing their favorites by sabotaging or belittling other characters. Toxic fan-bases aren't helpful either.

Red Hood has his own corner. He is the hard-worker-type. He had a bad childhood but thanks to that he can understand people who are in a similar position. He is compassionate and empathetic. He is flawed and knows first-hand what happens if you stare into the abyss. But thanks to that he can reach people that other ("perfect") heroes will never reach. Jason Todd is the only DC character I know that has ex-criminals as close friends. Rehabilitation was a reoccurring theme in his Outlaws runs. And I love rehabilitation. On the other hand, DC really made me dislike heroes with a no-kill rule. We've reached a point where it's just cringe. I don't care how obsessed DC writers are with trying to prove that a strict no-kill-rule is morally superior to everything else. It's a wrong assessment. Sometimes killing somebody is the right thing to do. And death isn't always the worst fate. But that's getting off-topic already.

Those are some reasons why I love him. I think it's part of what draws many of us to him.

Jason should've stayed alive.

I don't know. I only heard he's only meant to be a villain in that one story but he turns out popular so they continue.

Death in The Family is not a legitimate story since it's cashing in on a child hero death because some adults don't like that there's a child hero alongside their ideal concept of Batman when it's 44 years too late for that.

He's cooler as Red Hood and more interesting because of the ideological difference with Batman, but I don't know about better, since a mouthy street kid but smart Robin can bring different perspective that I don't think they realized properly because they only view these characters as brand.

The tell is that at first they want to deage Dick and decided to make the first Jason a copy of Dick so they can have a Robin, so I don't believe they really invested on his difference with Dick or Bruce.

What other characters?

God, it would've been so good if they had gone that route full for his Robin post crisis.

[prepmaster]

The question is "Should Jason Todd have stayed as a villain or an antagonist to Batman". What made Jason such a good foil to Batman was that Jason has a personal connection to the guy so even when you throw in a bunch of anti heroes against Batman, Jason would still be the one that stands out the most. The character is popular but as a stand alone anti hero, he would need a unique setting & good villains.

[Comics N' Toons]

I would have liked to see Jason Todd's arc go like this:

Collins' introduces him... there are some fun adventures with Batman, after he becomes Robin.
Starlin gets the character and turns him snotty... the young punk superhero!
The Joker's crowbar/warehouse bomb nearly kills him... but he survives.
The experience changes him...he becomes less snotty and more like Tim Drake, a boy genius/master detective!

And he stays Robin... forever!

That would have been MY preference... that way, I get to have Jason and everything I love about Drake Robin in one character!

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

He’s been reduced to backups and an overpriced Batman anthology. All while they introduce new characters and further incorporate outside characters that touch on similar themes and ideas. He might be better off then characters at the very bottom of the bat queue, but it seems like he’s on his way. They’re reducing their output with him while creating more and more redundancy in his areas. That rarely turns out to be a good thing. Aahz made a good point though, his other media output is good and that’s a positive that should give him at least some insolation.

This is a moot point since every single character from the extended Batfamily has been in the same situation again and again, and again over the years. New characters that get aggressively pushed come and go but in the end, the core bat family (Dick, Jason, Tim, and Barbara) remains intact and in all these years the only new character able to successfully make the jump from FOTM to core cast member is Damian, and that only because he has the strongest connection with Bruce of them all.

I would have liked to see Jason Todd's arc go like this:

Collins' introduces him... there are some fun adventures with Batman, after he becomes Robin.
Starlin gets the character and turns him snotty... the young punk superhero!
The Joker's crowbar/warehouse bomb nearly kills him... but he survives.
The experience changes him...he becomes less snotty and more like Tim Drake, a boy genius/master detective!

And he stays Robin... forever!

That would have been MY preference... that way, I get to have Jason and everything I love about Drake Robin in one character!

This is a terrible idea. You aren't not killing him in the literal sense but you're killing his character and turning him into another character, to not mention that wanting him to remain locked in the same characterization forever not only is the fastest way to push a fictional character into the limbo, it would only lead to writers deciding to get rid of him repeating the exact same circumstances that led to DITF in the first place.

[Fergus]

No but it was a mistake tying his big motivation and purpose to the whole why is Joker still alive?, sometimes some criminals deserve to die argument.

Bruce has attempted to kill Joker more times than the Red Hood and the fact that Joker is still alive makes it all seem like a tantrum. Why is Jason using the Red Hood persona? The Joker doesn't care because Jason was just a tool to get to Bruce. It doesn't mean anything since Jason makes zero attempt to actually end the mad man.

All it does is hurt Bruce. like rubs in his face that once upon a time he took in a young kid who ran off and got himself killed [Bruce has done that twice now]

No wonder the Jason Todd character never moves beyond his death. Ever Robin has died. Move on. Some died before they even hit their teen years. So that whole dead Robin thing is played out.

Writers need to move on but they can't. It seems that the only stories anyone wants to [or can ] tell about Jason is one where joker killed him and Bruce is a bitch to him.

This makes Jason seem like a whinny attention seeking brat who's trying to punish a parent.

Now lets look at his role in the Batfamily. I don't know what role he serves in the current family but I liked him more when he was an antagonist not some bat-branded Rip of ToT Tim except with Rubber bullets.

I don't get why Red Hood doesn't kill. he should kill or at the very least come across as more lethal than the rest of the Bats.

Robin should not be more menacing than Red Hood
Batman shouldn't use more lethal and questionable methods than the Red Hood
Nightwing shouldn't be the only bat with enough balls to end the Joker in canon.

I don't think it was a mistake to bring Jason back though I don't think DC knows what to do with him. he should be more than a good looking man in a leather jacket wielding guns that really are just for show running around bitching about Batman and occasionally making jokes

[Fergus]

He’s been reduced to backups and an overpriced Batman anthology. All while they introduce new characters and further incorporate outside characters that touch on similar themes and ideas. He might be better off then characters at the very bottom of the bat queue, but it seems like he’s on his way. They’re reducing their output with him while creating more and more redundancy in his areas. That rarely turns out to be a good thing. Aahz made a good point though, his other media output is good and that’s a positive that should give him at least some insolation.

Strange move to bring yet another gun toting guy with a good aesthetic in the form of Grifter.