Should Jason Todd Have Stayed Dead?

[Zaresh]

There is more to being a leader of a group than just being a good strategist. Its about inspiring loyalty, understanding the mindset of others and helping them in fulfilling their roles. Dick Grayson is more of a natural leader than Jason since Dick has always been a thread that connects Batfam members.

I don't think we were arguing about who's a better leader or a more inspiring one.

That being said, I don't think it's fair comparing Dick and Jason regarding that aspect of their characters. By sheer amount of years of being published, Dick has almost no one to challenge his place as the leader of any team. Jason has, being rather generous when you put his years alive together, 20 years of pulished stories. Has been in two small teams (Challengers from Countdown, and Outlaws), three if you count the two itterations of Outlaws as different teams. And those two times he was a guest in Dick's Titans. And even despite all that, he seems to be a good partner, a cooperative, coordinating leader if he has to. [DC thinks] Roy seems to consider him competent enough, and Roy has been a team mate of Dick in two teams and leaded his own teams as well (even if in a different continuity).

I think he can do fine leading a team, I don't know. Maybe not the best, but fine.

[TooFlyToFail]

There is more to being a leader of a group than just being a good strategist. Its about inspiring loyalty, understanding the mindset of others and helping them in fulfilling their roles. Dick Grayson is more of a natural leader than Jason since Dick has always been a thread that connects Batfam members.

Except Jason has done that in his Outlaw runs. He's inspired, helped make people better and had shown and gotten loyalty. Him not being the most conventional leader, aka not super hands on, and letting others make their own mistakes, makes him being forced into an important positions more interesting and less of a formality. Dick is also far more of a paragon, which is why his being a leader just expected.

Don't get me wrong, Dick being Batman was a great read, but of course he was going to make a great Batman. Inherently, there's not much conflict or tension there.

Jason being a/the leader of the League means he's gotta be more hands on, that he can't just let mistakes happen, he needs to be more focused, more diplomatic, more meticulous, consider his decision making more etc. Basically, he's got to learn to be the best of what he can do.

It's a natural progression of the character, but also something new for him. He doesn't need to be street level anymore, not with SO MANY in Gotham as it is.

[Alpha]

I'm curious though, what interactions did Jason have with the League of Assassins before he died? I don't think it affects him joining the league right now, just a curiosity

[Zaresh]

I'm curious though, what interactions did Jason have with the League of Assassins before he died? I don't think it affects him joining the league right now, just a curiosity

He knew Talia. During the new 52 run of the outlaws, he met her before meeting Bruce. To add on that, in pre-COIE continuity, he met her in, iirc, the last issue of his introduction arc (this is blond Jason Todd, circus boy, orfaned by Croc killing his parents). He saved her. I don't think there's much more before his death.

He has way more post- resurrection.

[TooFlyToFail]

Yeah, my musings and ideas are more building off his relationship with Talia and the League since 2011. It feels like he should have a deeper relationship with her...but no one wants to explore it all, including Lobdell...who changed it so that he met her before Bruce. Weird.

[Godlike13]

Yeah, my musings and ideas are more building off his relationship with Talia and the League since 2011. It feels like he should have a deeper relationship with her...but no one wants to explore it all, including Lobdell...who changed it so that he met her before Bruce. Weird.

Two things as to why i think that is. Winick made it weird, and Damian.

[Aahz]

Yeah, my musings and ideas are more building off his relationship with Talia and the League since 2011. It feels like he should have a deeper relationship with her...but no one wants to explore it all, including Lobdell...who changed it so that he met her before Bruce. Weird.

That was iirc Tynion not Lobdell.

Btw. Jason and Damians shared connection to the League and Talia would imo be a pretty good set-up for team up story with both of them, but sofar writers just seem to ignore that connection between them.

[failo.legendkiller]

Yes he should have stayed dead along to Barry Allen.

[Jackalope89]

Him coming back was the best thing for the Bat Family books in years. Countdown to Crisis started to give him character development beyond "kid killed by Joker", but it was soon tossed out, and his character would be further broken until New52 came along, with Lobdell truly giving Jason character growth and expansion.

Honestly if one character should have stayed dead, should have been Bruce. At the time, he was pretty awful (and he's descended past that in recent years).

[witchboy]

Heck no!
Jason's return as Red Hood made him an exciting dynamic character who's carried his own book for a long time. Total success story.

[failo.legendkiller]

Him coming back was the best thing for the Bat Family books in years. Countdown to Crisis started to give him character development beyond "kid killed by Joker", but it was soon tossed out, and his character would be further broken until New52 came along, with Lobdell truly giving Jason character growth and expansion.

Honestly if one character should have stayed dead, should have been Bruce. At the time, he was pretty awful (and he's descended past that in recent years).

I agree with you on Bruce.
My point of view is that death should matter. If you decide to kill a character (especially a human character) he should stay dead.

[prepmaster]

I agree with you on Bruce.
My point of view is that death should matter. If you decide to kill a character (especially a human character) he should stay dead.

Lets kill off the most profitable character of DC lol.

[Comics N' Toons]

Lets kill off the most profitable character of DC lol.

I think he was meaning Jay should have stayed dead... As Robin, he wasnt the most profitable character of DC. And... historically speaking, Batman and Superman have been by far the most profitable.

[CPSparkles]

Heck no!
Jason's return as Red Hood made him an exciting dynamic character who's carried his own book for a long time. Total success story.

Not sure if this is sarcasm or a joke cos have you seen the numbers for RHATO. Either way very funny.

[CPSparkles]

Lets kill off the most profitable character of DC lol.

I never know what to think of fans who say such thing's. How do you expect Jason Todd or Tim Drake to do anything or be anything when you advocate for killing off the one thing that gives them value?

@Jackalopes what is the purpose of Jason todd without Bruce Wayne Batman? Does he start arching DickBats out of jealousy or insecurity which is the crux of Jason/Dick dynamic. Does he arch Joker? He might but since the Joker is far more valuable than Red hood/Jason Todd he can't kill him and the Joker's value is tied up in his relationship arching Bruce nothing to do with Jason

@Falio as a Tim Drake fan who was recently rejoicing at the fact that Tim is back to being Bruce's Robin [you also complained a lot when Tim was distanced from the batfamily. complaining that the bond between Bruce and tim was suffering] what happens to Tim if Bruce is gone forever? Who does he sidekick to? What is the point of Tim if there is no Bruce?

Bruce shouldn't have stayed dead. That is just nonsense talk. Jason should have stayed dead since he adds more to the myth dead rather than alive. He brings nothing to the fold currently. I guess he is an ally but bruce has tons of those.

However jason red hood has fans who enjoy reading his exploits so in that sense it's a good thing he's back. He's popularity is on the rise so it was a wise move bringing him back

Re the LOa connections. I don't want to see it explored. That is Damian's and Bruce's lore. Writers should build up something unique to Jason not attach him to Dick's, Bruce's past/contacts