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  1. #451
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    Quote Originally Posted by Journey View Post
    IDK who Jan is but sure why not get her a friend, what has she brought to the table other than being a mom, & a stalker like go take photography class or something get a life!
    Janet Van Dyne...The Wasp.

  2. #452
    Astonishing Member Journey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    Janet Van Dyne...The Wasp.

  3. #453

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravin' Ray View Post
    Or socialize again with other superheroines when their time allows. Like with Jan whom she used to see often.
    I agree. Reed's got his contacts and Illuminati bunch. The Torch also gets around. Ben is easily the most social of the Four, having collected a wide variety of friends and acquaintances in his MTIO and West Coast Avengers days. Now some of us have gone on and on (me included) about Sue here and it would be a waste not to have her get more of a life than yelling at Franklin, Reed, and Johnny. I mean, they do need it, but Sue's needing more to fill her character out.
    Why yes, I do enjoy hearing myself talk. it is very kind of you to notice>

  4. #454
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    I agree. Reed's got his contacts and Illuminati bunch. The Torch also gets around. Ben is easily the most social of the Four, having collected a wide variety of friends and acquaintances in his MTIO and West Coast Avengers days. Now some of us have gone on and on (me included) about Sue here and it would be a waste not to have her get more of a life than yelling at Franklin, Reed, and Johnny. I mean, they do need it, but Sue's needing more to fill her character out.
    And it's not like the kids aren't old enough to be left to their own devices.....however unsettling that thought may be...

  5. #455

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    And it's not like the kids aren't old enough to be left to their own devices.....however unsettling that thought may be...
    Welcome to family life. Even "good" kids get into trouble.
    Why yes, I do enjoy hearing myself talk. it is very kind of you to notice>

  6. #456
    Astonishing Member danielsan52's Avatar
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    I’d love to see Sue and Jessica have more interaction.
    08361C4A-8046-4BC0-BCAB-7B4D413500A4.jpg
    Calling Wanda a Pretender is Trumpian at best

  7. #457
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    Janet Van Dyne...The Wasp.
    Of course those two are friends... they were the first two women in the modern superhero community (the third and fourth being Jean Grey and Scarlet Witch).
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  8. #458
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Journey View Post
    I finally caught up with the issue & I have to say the disinterest I have in Franklin's Melodrama cannot be underwhelmed like IDK if it's Slott's writing but whatever sympathy I'm suppose to have for my boy the False God I just don't like not at all. Also I like Jo more than Niki can we get some more of him please I find the tiny killer Kree that sounds like a chipmunk much more endearing. Susan she needs a hobby, Reed & Ben I'd like a little break from them I feel they get all the character shine, Johnny please drop the bird lady like we're bored u don't love her I'm not buying it drop her & actually get your shit together & grow up evolve stop hopping into the beds of women and calling that growth I'm tired, u offend me with your lack of change. Valeria IDC about either IDK how old she is I do like that her & her brother actually look like teenagers but still like whatever you a smart little girl ok next!

    I say all that to say I really actually enjoyed this issue.
    Having said what I said earlier, these are not bad thoughts - I agree with most of them.

    Reed Ben angst should only happen every 100 issues, maybe?

    I've never really liked anyone for Johnny after Frankie, though Nita came close, that was a missed opportunity of sorts. But Lyja was 'okay', just clearly not a real love, like Crystal, Frankie, or Nita were/might have been.

    Sue's involvement with Daughters of Liberty, Shield, and any other collab, should show here; text messages or phone calls. Yeah, what ever happened to her best friend Jan?

    Leave the drama for the kids, all of them, but keep it weighted towards the other characters.

    Long time reader and I've usually seen more balanced between the cast. Even in the before #200, they would have funky friends hanging out and always managed to make it look good; Tigra, Thundra and Impy around that time?
    Last edited by Oberon; 05-02-2021 at 08:05 AM. Reason: meant issue # 200
    ~ Oberon ~
    Comic-book reading Witch and Pagan since 1970
    I came for Kate, I stayed for Bette Love Fantastic Four, Namor, Batwoman, Dr.Strange.... i love them all

  9. #459
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    Historically, Sue has brought QUITE A BIT to the table; you may not realize from current issues but go back a ways.
    ~ Oberon ~
    Comic-book reading Witch and Pagan since 1970
    I came for Kate, I stayed for Bette Love Fantastic Four, Namor, Batwoman, Dr.Strange.... i love them all

  10. #460
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    I agree. Reed's got his contacts and Illuminati bunch. The Torch also gets around. Ben is easily the most social of the Four, having collected a wide variety of friends and acquaintances in his MTIO and West Coast Avengers days. Now some of us have gone on and on (me included) about Sue here and it would be a waste not to have her get more of a life than yelling at Franklin, Reed, and Johnny. I mean, they do need it, but Sue's needing more to fill her character out.
    I always agree with this, but also realize that in the beginning and more so in the early days, they each were their own sort of concept or essence; that is why elements, magical or not, seem to apply to them, though I often think that Reed is more water, and Sue air, it could also be seen the opposite.

    But they're archetypes and even though Sue's character has been filled out, they seem to revert more to her archetype; damsel in D. Supportive wife, mother, or 'typical' one.

    We all know that many writers have given a far more compelling sense of Sue.
    ~ Oberon ~
    Comic-book reading Witch and Pagan since 1970
    I came for Kate, I stayed for Bette Love Fantastic Four, Namor, Batwoman, Dr.Strange.... i love them all

  11. #461
    Astonishing Member danielsan52's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    I always agree with this, but also realize that in the beginning and more so in the early days, they each were their own sort of concept or essence; that is why elements, magical or not, seem to apply to them, though I often think that Reed is more water, and Sue air, it could also be seen the opposite.

    But they're archetypes and even though Sue's character has been filled out, they seem to revert more to her archetype; damsel in D. Supportive wife, mother, or 'typical' one.

    We all know that many writers have given a far more compelling sense of Sue.
    I think Defalco gave Sue the strongest character development ever. Too bad she reverted back from being a strong leader. That reversion happened well before the current book though.
    Calling Wanda a Pretender is Trumpian at best

  12. #462
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danielsan52 View Post
    I think Defalco gave Sue the strongest character development ever. Too bad she reverted back from being a strong leader. That reversion happened well before the current book though.
    The dichotomy of how Defalco treated Sue, and I mostly agree, is that she also had to go through the Malice stuff again. Still there were some cool Malice moments around that time.

    I keep remembering during/the crossover with one of the Infinity series, the one with evil dopplegangers, but Sue is literally taunting the Hulk about going at it, fist to fist. I can't recall if she is 'full-Malice' at this point; seems it grew on her over this part of the FF, but she is clearly not afraid of fighting the Hulk.

    Leadership skills aside, she also had a killer attitude in many respects.
    ~ Oberon ~
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  13. #463
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    It's always bothered me that current Sue is never shown doing anything the doesn't involve either work or looking after family. We've often seen Ben working out. We've seen him playing poker with his buddies. Johnny races and works on cars, and was once in a rock band. The only time I remember Sue doing an activity on her own was when she left Reed and was living on that horse ranch.

    At least we no longer have 60's Sue, who spent all of her alone time either trying on clothes or getting her hair done.

  14. #464
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    Basically Sue needs more visibility in other areas of the comics. Daughters of Liberty stuff, etc. So we'd either get her emphasis somewhere else (still sucks)

    or such emphasis might drive increased stories or plots in the main title (not really, but?)

    I have a very old memory of reading Strange Tales way back and the Wizard was challenging the Torch. (he did this a few times). I had never seen Marvel before. I was 8 years old and hospitalized for an infectious disease; quarantined for at least 2 weeks. But someone gave me this comic to read.

    I was mesmerized by the moody art but not a capable reader at that age, didn't read much of it.
    In the story Wizard challenges Torch to a duel and eventually Torch indicates he has a power that the Wizard doesn't know about.

    The Hook! Sue, invisible, assists Johnny to convince the Wiz he was more powerful.
    As a kid, I thought that Sue and Johnny were a couple; I didn't get the context of them walking together at the end, their costumes, etc.
    Does anyone remember or know of that?
    ~ Oberon ~
    Comic-book reading Witch and Pagan since 1970
    I came for Kate, I stayed for Bette Love Fantastic Four, Namor, Batwoman, Dr.Strange.... i love them all

  15. #465
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    Basically Sue needs more visibility in other areas of the comics. Daughters of Liberty stuff, etc. So we'd either get her emphasis somewhere else (still sucks)

    or such emphasis might drive increased stories or plots in the main title (not really, but?)

    I have a very old memory of reading Strange Tales way back and the Wizard was challenging the Torch. (he did this a few times). I had never seen Marvel before. I was 8 years old and hospitalized for an infectious disease; quarantined for at least 2 weeks. But someone gave me this comic to read.

    I was mesmerized by the moody art but not a capable reader at that age, didn't read much of it.
    In the story Wizard challenges Torch to a duel and eventually Torch indicates he has a power that the Wizard doesn't know about.

    The Hook! Sue, invisible, assists Johnny to convince the Wiz he was more powerful.
    As a kid, I thought that Sue and Johnny were a couple; I didn't get the context of them walking together at the end, their costumes, etc.
    Does anyone remember or know of that?
    I remember that story! Not really any details cuz it's been a while, but a couple of those Strange Tales stories were good for showing Johnny & Sue's relationship outside their normal team roles.

    Also it's kinda funny how the Wizard went from hating Johnny to being more of a Reed enemy over time...given his original anti-superhuman stance, I'm surprised he's never really gone up against one of the X-teams!

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