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  1. #1336
    Hellion Simp Rift's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by U.N. Owen View Post
    At the risk of sounding cruel, Johnny got off too lightly for his actions in causing the Bride of Doom arc. He should know better than to sleep with anyone who answers to a man with Doom in his name.
    I dunno, this is pretty harsh punishment. He can't eat food, his family can't go near them, he can't go outside, or even leave the basement without endangering people. His life is ruined (ignoring the eventual shift back to the status quo), and he could end up killing his innocent family at any time. It was dumb of him to take the genie lamp from the Cave of Wonders, but Victorious was a consenting adult and she wasn't in any sort of romantic relationship with Doom. Doom would have probably been much less upset if Victorious didn't humiliate him publicly with it.

  2. #1337
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    I seem to sense switch and bait a lot with the FF plotting these days. Get to that shortly.

    Having a hard time remembering where Spyre is located in the galaxy. Does anyone know how proximate their area is to the others and what would make them a version of more empire based races? Just curious. Controlling in some ways cosmic rays is interesting.

    Spyre sort of reminds me of the "first Eternals", Eternians? Who were part of the Overmind plot, waaaaay back.

    Anyway, switch and bait stuff:

    Way too convenient that Lyja and Sky may have departed. And that Alicia seems to be not so nice guy anymore.

    Is she being controlled by someone else?

    Is she yet again another Skrull?
    The idea that Alicia would do these things is so out of character that it seems there must be something else going on.
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  3. #1338
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    I seem to sense switch and bait a lot with the FF plotting these days. Get to that shortly.

    Having a hard time remembering where Spyre is located in the galaxy. Does anyone know how proximate their area is to the others and what would make them a version of more empire based races? Just curious. Controlling in some ways cosmic rays is interesting.

    Spyre sort of reminds me of the "first Eternals", Eternians? Who were part of the Overmind plot, waaaaay back.

    Anyway, switch and bait stuff:

    Way too convenient that Lyja and Sky may have departed. And that Alicia seems to be not so nice guy anymore.

    Is she being controlled by someone else?

    Is she yet again another Skrull?
    The idea that Alicia would do these things is so out of character that it seems there must be something else going on.
    I think it is just Slott trying to 'put his mark' on the characters.

  4. #1339
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    Sure, I see that too.

    There are so many moving parts and so many factors from FF lore to consider.

    Dr. Doom has long held the power to switch his mind into others' bodies.
    (and seemed relieved when Ben said Alicia didn't come with the FF to the wedding... hmmmm?)

    Skrulls and some Skrulls in particular have awesome hypnosis powers.
    Is Alicia hypnotised by a Skrull?

    Ages ago, the Skrulls were locked out of their shape-shifting abilities, universe wide (seems impossible, but so it was said) though later cured.
    Is that power/device still around, in a more limited form?

    Alicia is Lyja, and has locked hypnotised real Alicia in her real form. She already (Alicia or whoever) has the ability to control "Lyja"

    Of course I have no clue where Sky would fit into this scenario, other than pawn/victim.

    What would Lyja or any other bad actor gain by that, the chance for Johnny again, but wouldn't this tamper with the forces between the respective races; Skrulls and Spyre?

    Of course, there is one possible rogue agent, from the FF history, who could possibly fill in all the puzzle pieces:

    Super Skrull, K'lrrt (sic)

    He could have replaced Alicia, and would have a motive to cause dissension in the FF, besides

    securing or re-securing Lyja (or they're partners, for some reasons)

    Just something I thought of, but that means Alicia is kidnapped and a pawn again.
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  5. #1340

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    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenXXX View Post
    The soap opera is an important part of Fantastic Four comics that has largely been ignored by writers over the past two decades. Slott, as a fan of the old school, brought this aspect back and gave it meaning. How he copes with this is another question.
    This is an excellent point. Slott IS doing what a lot of fans want. He is not doing it like we'd prefer.
    Why yes, I do enjoy hearing myself talk. it is very kind of you to notice>

  6. #1341
    Keeper of the Torch Ravin' Ray's Avatar
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    If Slott has dropped hints explaining Alicia's behavior, I might look at his Silver Surfer run where she made a guest appearance. That's the last time he wrote her prior to the FF, to my knowledge.
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  7. #1342
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rift View Post
    I dunno, this is pretty harsh punishment. He can't eat food, his family can't go near them, he can't go outside, or even leave the basement without endangering people. His life is ruined (ignoring the eventual shift back to the status quo), and he could end up killing his innocent family at any time. It was dumb of him to take the genie lamp from the Cave of Wonders, but Victorious was a consenting adult and she wasn't in any sort of romantic relationship with Doom. Doom would have probably been much less upset if Victorious didn't humiliate him publicly with it.
    Consenting or not, Victorious answers to Doom and Doom is notoriously petty or can go from 0 to 100 really quickly in terms of pettiness. Sleeping with the servant your arch enemy whom your sister humiliated on live tv and tried to turn your nephew into a weapon is not only stupid but it crosses the threshold into "well, what the fuck did you think would happen?" It's one of those moments where a character does something so stupid that mustering sympathy for said character is difficult.

  8. #1343
    Hellion Simp Rift's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by U.N. Owen View Post
    Consenting or not, Victorious answers to Doom and Doom is notoriously petty or can go from 0 to 100 really quickly in terms of pettiness. Sleeping with the servant your arch enemy whom your sister humiliated on live tv and tried to turn your nephew into a weapon is not only stupid but it crosses the threshold into "well, what the fuck did you think would happen?" It's one of those moments where a character does something so stupid that mustering sympathy for said character is difficult.
    Yeah, what he did was stupid. Doom is just this petty, angry brat. I agree that Johnny did invite some of this into his life. But not to this degree, I feel. In a karmic sense, his punishment vastly outweighs his transgressions. Between him, Victorious and Doom, he's the least cruel one here. (Well, second-least, if you include Sky. But her relationship with Johnny is just its own mess where they both look pretty bad.)
    Last edited by Rift; 09-23-2021 at 10:47 AM.

  9. #1344
    Amazing Member CitizenXXX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    Sure, I see that too.

    There are so many moving parts and so many factors from FF lore to consider.

    Dr. Doom has long held the power to switch his mind into others' bodies.
    (and seemed relieved when Ben said Alicia didn't come with the FF to the wedding... hmmmm?)

    Skrulls and some Skrulls in particular have awesome hypnosis powers.
    Is Alicia hypnotised by a Skrull?

    Ages ago, the Skrulls were locked out of their shape-shifting abilities, universe wide (seems impossible, but so it was said) though later cured.
    Is that power/device still around, in a more limited form?

    Alicia is Lyja, and has locked hypnotised real Alicia in her real form. She already (Alicia or whoever) has the ability to control "Lyja"

    Of course I have no clue where Sky would fit into this scenario, other than pawn/victim.

    What would Lyja or any other bad actor gain by that, the chance for Johnny again, but wouldn't this tamper with the forces between the respective races; Skrulls and Spyre?

    Of course, there is one possible rogue agent, from the FF history, who could possibly fill in all the puzzle pieces:

    Super Skrull, K'lrrt (sic)

    He could have replaced Alicia, and would have a motive to cause dissension in the FF, besides

    securing or re-securing Lyja (or they're partners, for some reasons)

    Just something I thought of, but that means Alicia is kidnapped and a pawn again.
    I think everything is much simpler, no conspiracies - Alicia is just worried about the children and, for the sake of their protection, is ready to cross the line. This is a new status for the character, new circumstances for her, within which she can behave differently.
    Sky fell prey to Johnny's recklessness. She is really a victim here, unlike Johnny and Zora, who made the choice. I'm sorry for Zora too, but it was her choice to become a living doombot-slave of Doctor Doom.

  10. #1345
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenXXX View Post
    I think everything is much simpler, no conspiracies - Alicia is just worried about the children and, for the sake of their protection, is ready to cross the line. This is a new status for the character, new circumstances for her, within which she can behave differently.
    Sky fell prey to Johnny's recklessness. She is really a victim here, unlike Johnny and Zora, who made the choice. I'm sorry for Zora too, but it was her choice to become a living doombot-slave of Doctor Doom.
    I wouldn't characterize Zora's relationship as doombot-slave, esp if you read the Doctor Doom series. He had a high level of trust in her. Even though she is Slott's character IMO Cantwell had a better handle their relationship.


  11. #1346
    Keeper of the Torch Ravin' Ray's Avatar
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    Russell Dauterman tweeted this last Aug. 26 and we somehow overlooked it:

    https://twitter.com/rdauterman/statu...14141695340556
    FANTASTIC FOUR #36 cover 🕸 Miles Morales 10th anniversary variant!

    Human Torch/Fantastic Four/She-Hulk/Disney Big Hero 6 /Tangled/G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero/Transformers G1 fanatic, Avatar-maker, and Marvel Moderator
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  12. #1347
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    I am probably one of the few that never really got into the Simpsons.
    It's actually a reference to a really old Superman comic. One of the most poorly thought out ways to end a comic ever. Superman saved some alien... then.... that little text box gets put in as an epilogue. O-o'

  13. #1348
    Extraordinary Member Crimz's Avatar
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    Wyatt should be a mainstay FF supporting cast member like Alicia is. I'm tired of only seeing the character maybe once every 10 years. He provides a different personality and perspective for the team to bounce off as well as much needed diversity.
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  14. #1349

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimz View Post
    Wyatt should be a mainstay FF supporting cast member like Alicia is. I'm tired of only seeing the character maybe once every 10 years. He provides a different personality and perspective for the team to bounce off as well as much needed diversity.
    Having Wyatt show up when Johnny is going through major emotional turmoil would make a lot of sense.
    Why yes, I do enjoy hearing myself talk. it is very kind of you to notice>

  15. #1350

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimz View Post
    She was created by Zdarsky so he'd be the one to bring her back if anyone.
    what was her name?

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