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  1. #1531

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    When did Sue become such a hothead? I swear, she is losing all of her self-restraint and coming across more like her brother with every conflict the F4 are dealing with. It used to be that she held the family together and tried to be the voice of reason but now whenever a villain or a threat show up she's even the one egging everyone on and jumping directly into the offensive.

    I used to admire her will and passion when it came to protecting her kids and family but at this point it's getting to be too much of a trope imo and is quickly losing any appeal that it had previously. Especially since now she it almost seems like she is looking for an excuse to jump into battle.

  2. #1532
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keyotheseasons View Post
    When did Sue become such a hothead? I swear, she is losing all of her self-restraint and coming across more like her brother with every conflict the F4 are dealing with. It used to be that she held the family together and tried to be the voice of reason but now whenever a villain or a threat show up she's even the one egging everyone on and jumping directly into the offensive.

    I used to admire her will and passion when it came to protecting her kids and family but at this point it's getting to be too much of a trope imo and is quickly losing any appeal that it had previously. Especially since now she it almost seems like she is looking for an excuse to jump into battle.
    Blame it on Dan Slott. I haven't liked his characterizations for the Fantastic Four. Johnny is acting immature again, a rollback to what was done by other writers. I don't think he's been done justice since Hickman's run. And I agree with you about Sue. When she isn't being wallpaper she's been pretty unlikable at times.

  3. #1533

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    Blame it on Dan Slott. I haven't liked his characterizations for the Fantastic Four. Johnny is acting immature again, a rollback to what was done by other writers. I don't think he's been done justice since Hickman's run. And I agree with you about Sue. When she isn't being wallpaper she's been pretty unlikable at times.
    Despite my current avatar, Sue is my favorite Marvel character and I find her extremely unlikable currently. The first time I took MAJOR issue with her this run was when she was spying on Johnny and Skye and this last issue furthered my disliking of her current "characterization", if you can even call it that.

    I love it when she goes all mama bear but only if it's warranted. Sue, in my opinion, should not be the one promoting fighting, provoking enemies and/or teammates and taking unnecessary risks which are totally counter-intuitive to the goal she or her team is trying to accomplish.
    Last edited by Keyotheseasons; 12-01-2021 at 10:32 AM.

  4. #1534
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    I thought the FF's legal problems would just amount to a custody hearing, but it looks like the next issue will open up with them all in the slammer because they couldn't tone it down...

  5. #1535
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    Yes, there has been tinkering with the aging process of the FF. There was the one story in the days when Byrne did a brief stint just as the "art robot" as he phrases it for Marv Wolfman's story in FF #214. In the previous issue, a Skrull had used an aging ray on Sue, Reed and Ben and they were aged dramatically. Johnny battled a Skrull robot who was going to zap him and he was able to get the device from him before melting the Skrullbot. He revived Reed and together they modified the ray gun so that it reversed the aging process. But it had the bonus effect of making them younger.



    Then later in Hickman's Fantastic Four run, the children created a serum that would allow Ben to be human once a year. But the side effect is that it was the only day that he would age. I'm not sure if this change is still in effect though. Seems like it might have been forgotten or ignored.

    Pretty sure it was used during the issue where he fought Immortal/Devil Hulk (Who was at least partially under the control of Puppet Master).
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  6. #1536

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    Pretty sure it was used during the issue where he fought Immortal/Devil Hulk (Who was at least partially under the control of Puppet Master).
    Yeah, it was used there. Hickman used it once when Ben was first given the ability. Fraction used it since his arc took an entire year. Now Slott has used it.
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  7. #1537
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    Yeah, it was used there. Hickman used it once when Ben was first given the ability. Fraction used it since his arc took an entire year. Now Slott has used it.
    You're right. I do remember that issue where he finally got a win over the Hulk. That was early in Slott's run. Looking back, I think Ben can only be human once a year.

  8. #1538
    Extraordinary Member Crimz's Avatar
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    Skimmed the issue, still hate how Slott writes Sue.
    Either she does nothing or does something stupid/out of character. This run can't end fast enough...

  9. #1539
    Keeper of the Torch Ravin' Ray's Avatar
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    Devil's Reign Sidebar:

    The New Fantastic Four (Spider-Man, Hulk/Mr. Fix-It, Wolverine, Ghost Rider) inspiration for Doc Ock's Superior Four. And it looks like Ock's plans include using the Forever Gate.

    http://www.gamesradar.com/devils-rei...antastic-four/
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  10. #1540
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimz View Post
    Skimmed the issue, still hate how Slott writes Sue.
    Either she does nothing or does something stupid/out of character. This run can't end fast enough...
    I just read it this evening. Not only does Sue (and everyone else) behave in such a stupid manner, the artist does a terrible job with her. She looks like a hag in this. Yet the artist draws Jennifer just fine.




    I have a question for others who read this. Has this judge character appeared anywhere before? Does she have some kind of powers because it looks like the artist gave her some kind of power aura on that last page. Come to think of it, even this judge behaves badly. She already shows prejudice against the case right off the bat. I think this is another thing about Slott's writing that annoys me...he does terrible set ups on situations. This was like a really bad parody episode of Judge Judy

  11. #1541

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    FF 683 is getting a lot of crap it doesn't deserve. Granted, it's far from perfect, but it serves a couple of purposes. It's a light-hearted, almost JLIesque story bringing the team into a situation that actually makes sense given past stories. The Wizard is done well here, looking to be an intelligent plotting baddie as opposed to the Frightful Four jobber he's been for decades. Jenn was brought in because it fit the story, NOT to set up her Reckoning War role. And the tone of this issue probably serves as a contrast to the upcoming "event".

    As for the criticisms, the FF spent way too much time attacking first. While this kind of thing (pun unintended) worked better in the seventies when Ben would need to break something for story's sake, the FF should frankly have settles the "F" (pun intended) down after numerous outbursts. I get Sue being pissed when Franklin's therapy was brought up, but her reaction when Diablo showed up was totally out of character given Ben was initially willing to hold off. Basically the team acted in a way to bring physical conflict into a superhero story in a time when that's no longer necessary.

    My personal gripe is no parental feelings from the Wizard. Granted, this is probably all a plot and the Wizard is being a mustache twirling villain, but some feeling, especially when an argument could be made in his favor would add to the characterization.

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  12. #1542

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    FF 683 is getting a lot of crap it doesn't deserve. Granted, it's far from perfect, but it serves a couple of purposes. It's a light-hearted, almost JLIesque story bringing the team into a situation that actually makes sense given past stories. The Wizard is done well here, looking to be an intelligent plotting baddie as opposed to the Frightful Four jobber he's been for decades. Jenn was brought in because it fit the story, NOT to set up her Reckoning War role. And the tone of this issue probably serves as a contrast to the upcoming "event".

    As for the criticisms, the FF spent way too much time attacking first. While this kind of thing (pun unintended) worked better in the seventies when Ben would need to break something for story's sake, the FF should frankly have settles the "F" (pun intended) down after numerous outbursts. I get Sue being pissed when Franklin's therapy was brought up, but her reaction when Diablo showed up was totally out of character given Ben was initially willing to hold off. Basically the team acted in a way to bring physical conflict into a superhero story in a time when that's no longer necessary.

    My personal gripe is no parental feelings from the Wizard. Granted, this is probably all a plot and the Wizard is being a mustache twirling villain, but some feeling, especially when an argument could be made in his favor would add to the characterization.

    The Dodson covers lately have been very nice.
    Exactly. Sue's reaction to Diablo showing up really shocked me because it is completely out of character. Nothing wrong with being on your toes or getting ready to fight but to actively heckle and egg on your teammate, who isn't exactly known for his patience or judgement in these types of situations, etc. in a courtroom setting when discussing custody of a child is completely out of line and she knows better.

    Sue has enough common sense not to engage and antagonize when she is trying to convince a judge to grant custody to them over a child that is potentially going to be taken away and handed over to his villainous father.

  13. #1543
    Extraordinary Member Crimz's Avatar
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    It's especially weird considering she was previously in court before in Robinson's run. The difference is that back then she was turning into Malice again, but she still kept her cool in the courtroom. Which makes this out of character moment stand out even more to me if a Malice Sue had more composure than this.

    Out of all the FF Dan Slotts Sue is the worst written. Either it's cliche mom stereotypes or mischaracterization like this and the spying on Johnny thing.

  14. #1544

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimz View Post
    It's especially weird considering she was previously in court before in Robinson's run. The difference is that back then she was turning into Malice again, but she still kept her cool in the courtroom. Which makes this out of character moment stand out even more to me if a Malice Sue had more composure than this.

    Out of all the FF Dan Slotts Sue is the worst written. Either it's cliche mom stereotypes or mischaracterization like this and the spying on Johnny thing.
    Yup. That's exactly what I was remembering as a comparison. Sue deserves better.

  15. #1545

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    I just read it this evening. Not only does Sue (and everyone else) behave in such a stupid manner, the artist does a terrible job with her. She looks like a hag in this. Yet the artist draws Jennifer just fine.




    I have a question for others who read this. Has this judge character appeared anywhere before? Does she have some kind of powers because it looks like the artist gave her some kind of power aura on that last page. Come to think of it, even this judge behaves badly. She already shows prejudice against the case right off the bat. I think this is another thing about Slott's writing that annoys me...he does terrible set ups on situations. This was like a really bad parody episode of Judge Judy
    It's not prejudice against the case, just a "no nonsense in my courtroom" attitude. She does not cross the Wizard that much because he knows how to behave in there (as She Hulk, but not the others). Still, she did cross him when he dismissed Dragon Man as "just a robot". And the ending suggest that everybody will walk away without their children... Wizard included.

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