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  1. #1291
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    We don't want to confuse TheKrytonMan too much but I just wanted to add that Johnny thought he was marrying Alicia at the time
    Hehe, but they stay together after he finds out though.

  2. #1292
    Invincible Member juan678's Avatar
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  3. #1293
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Juan, Ravin Ray already posted that.
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  4. #1294
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    Hehe, but they stay together after he finds out though.
    Yeah, he was angry for a while but he got past that. They were getting back together in FF #416 just before the fight against Onslaught & Heroes Reborn etc. Then she doesn't return until much later, sometime during the Secret Invasion event.



  5. #1295
    Incredible Member Thundershot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    Yeah, he was angry for a while but he got past that. They were getting back together in FF #416 just before the fight against Onslaught & Heroes Reborn etc. Then she doesn't return until much later, sometime during the Secret Invasion event.


    Man, Pacheco drew Lyja hot… *cough*

  6. #1296
    Keeper of the Torch Ravin' Ray's Avatar
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    We have to remember the last two issues of Fantastic Four 1961 were written by Tom DeFalco without his co-writer and artist (and underrated in my opinion) the late Paul Ryan, as Marvel was winding up the FF, Avengers, Captain America, and Iron Man to give way to the Heroes Reborn universe, and the two were told they were unceremoniously being let go. Ryan made it clear in old articles that they were unhappy about this. Any arcs they planned in advance were shelved. Would Johnny and Lyja have reconciled otherwise?
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  7. #1297
    Relaunched, not rebooted! SJNeal's Avatar
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    ^ ^ ^

    Yeah, the last few issues of all the series you mentioned feel very rushed. Stands to reason the writers were just truncating whatever plans they had to wrap things up asap.
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  8. #1298
    Keeper of the Torch Ravin' Ray's Avatar
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    I found this interview by longtime FF historian Sean Kleefeld (of the late and lamented 4 Freedoms Plaza website). As with any collaboration like Lee and Kirby, Ryan and DeFalco did not always agree with plot points. Ryan wanted Lyja's pregnancy to be real with a human-Skrull hybrid (which DeFalco finally made a reality in MC2's Fantastic Five with Torus Storm), while DeFalco came up with the bioweapon instead.

    http://www.kleefeldoncomics.com/2016...interview.html
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  9. #1299
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravin' Ray View Post
    I found this interview by longtime FF historian Sean Kleefeld (of the late and lamented 4 Freedoms Plaza website). As with any collaboration like Lee and Kirby, Ryan and DeFalco did not always agree with plot points. Ryan wanted Lyja's pregnancy to be real with a human-Skrull hybrid (which DeFalco finally made a reality in MC2's Fantastic Five with Torus Storm), while DeFalco came up with the bioweapon instead.

    http://www.kleefeldoncomics.com/2016...interview.html
    Good find. I've "known" Sean for a long time (only over the internet!) and I really miss his old website. Over the years, some of it has popped up on his blog "Kleefeld on Comics"

  10. #1300

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravin' Ray View Post
    We have to remember the last two issues of Fantastic Four 1961 were written by Tom DeFalco without his co-writer and artist (and underrated in my opinion) the late Paul Ryan, as Marvel was winding up the FF, Avengers, Captain America, and Iron Man to give way to the Heroes Reborn universe, and the two were told they were unceremoniously being let go. Ryan made it clear in old articles that they were unhappy about this. Any arcs they planned in advance were shelved. Would Johnny and Lyja have reconciled otherwise?
    I'd guess yes. Lyja is DeFalco's pet character and he wrote the FF as wuving her as much as he does. Now, it would be too bizarre for a tough redemption for Lyja and Johnny accepting her as was seen in Legion of Super-Heroes and the Yera/Colossal Boy pairing. But Ben having a crush on her after her masquerading as Alicia and marrying Johnny seems way too forgiving.

    As to the last few issues being rushed, they probably were. Not having any idea of how much advance warning writers had about the results of the Onslaught story, I can imagine creators being blind-sided as well as not quite believing the hype as being real.
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  11. #1301
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravin' Ray View Post
    I found this interview by longtime FF historian Sean Kleefeld (of the late and lamented 4 Freedoms Plaza website). As with any collaboration like Lee and Kirby, Ryan and DeFalco did not always agree with plot points. Ryan wanted Lyja's pregnancy to be real with a human-Skrull hybrid (which DeFalco finally made a reality in MC2's Fantastic Five with Torus Storm), while DeFalco came up with the bioweapon instead.
    I always felt that the original plan was for the pregnancy to be real and that mid-story the plan changed. I assumed editorial stepped in and said they didn't want Johnny Storm becoming a father. The "baby" being a bio-weapon and Lyja knowing it was a fake pregnancy just didn't make sense with how Lyja was being portrayed in the issues leading up to that point. She was genuinely concerned for the health and safety of the baby; Paibok taunted her at one point about the safety of the baby if she didn't get a special Skrull birthing medicine, etc. That reveal just did not fit.

    It would have worked better if it turned out that Lyja didn't know the truth--if she had honestly thought she was really pregnant, but the bio-weapon was something Paibok implanted in her without her knowledge. That would have at least maintained more credibility with how the subplot had been developed and the characters involved had been portrayed up to the point when he switched directions.

  12. #1302
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    Good find. I've "known" Sean for a long time (only over the internet!) and I really miss his old website. Over the years, some of it has popped up on his blog "Kleefeld on Comics"
    Does anyone know what the url for that 4 Freedoms Plaza website was? It might be on the Wayback Machine at archive.org.
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  13. #1303
    Keeper of the Torch Ravin' Ray's Avatar
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    It's ffplaza.com. The present URL is now owned by a German-language business so newer archives will point to that.
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  14. #1304
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    That is an interesting thought.

    Skrulls are known to be the Deviants of their own species, more or less and I wonder if

    Deviants are the opposite of Eternals in the sense that one can not procreate with their own kind (Eternals)

    but Deviants/genetics can procreate with *any* species. Has anyone else other thought or considered that.

    But in the immediate point, it does seem like the plot was changed from hybrid birth to weapon.
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  15. #1305
    Keeper of the Torch Ravin' Ray's Avatar
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    One noteworthy case is Tigra having a son William with Hank Pym Skrull imposter Criti Noll. The impersonation was so perfect that William has Pym's DNA rather than a Skrull's. Though it may be because Noll incorporated Pym's DNA into his cells to complete the impersonation.
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