The Fantastic Four Appreciation 2021

[CaptCleghorn]

I think it will be unimaginative because this run has mostly been unimaginative. A big tell is how dead this forum has been...
It's about Doom not them and I'm tired of him being the focus of FF stories. It's a common opinion that "Doom is the only good thing about the FF" and things like this only reinforce it.

I'm allowed to not like this run and voice my opinion however I like just like those who enjoy the run can voice theirs. If you don't like it then ignore my posts or block me because I will only stop when I feel like it.

The FF Appreciation thread has had a couple of people who would like to see constant admiration because it's "appreciation". Over the past few years many of we frequent poster have gotten an idea of what other of us like in particular. I like to point out that since Crimz and I usually agree on so much regarding this franchise, I'm obliged to point out differences we have in frustrating detail.

Slott, IMO, has been a good writer for FF. In some areas, even very good, but overall, I'm not going to call him great. The wedding of Doom is something which fits into a 60th anniversary celebration. Granted, the wedding SHOULDN'T be the main event of the year, but as part of a celebration which features a variety of villains and supporting characters from the FF series, sure. I don't think this is going to be a stretched out wedding like Barney and Maria Hill on How I Met Your Mother's final season.

As for Sue, she had a good line with the FF's desired ideal purpose, but her sneaking around spying on Johnny is a pretty awful characterization. Any girlfriend of Franklin needs a warning and a sympathy card NOW. Sue has not been handled well or given the size part she deserves. Yes, she is the Mom, but I can see Sue being told by Marie Barone and Beverly Goldbergto lighten the **** up.

Where Slott's strengths are with the book is his use of family. yes, he plays that card more than any other writer in the FF's history, but the family card is what makes the FF unlike any and every other superhero team (except Power Pack). I love the interactions between family in this book.

[Crimz]

Wow he's bad at writing Sue, but anyway to change the convo a bit.

It should be highlighted more that Sue was thrown into the situation of raising her brother. She was a child herself when the responsibility was forced on her. She likely had to grow up really fast as a result and lost out on some of her childhood. I think her perspective and frustrations with that should be shown more often than Johnny's perspective of the situation. There have been a few stories that have played with it from his sides of things, but rarely any from hers.

[The BaRoN]

Lyja is the only decent thing Slott has done, the whole idea of Torch marrying a skrull is great due to their history with skrulls and I still feel she was the best match for him.

As mentioned, Slott can't right Sue at all and it feels like nothing has actually happened for anyone except Ben in 30 issues, I even forgot about Skye until this issue and the whole mutant stuff with Franklin was so badly done.

At Least Franklin isn't emo anymore I suppose.

Look forward to RB Silva returning on art but long gone are the days of Hickman tier writing, I would take Cates or Zdarsky right now.

Oh and Slotts doom is utterly embarrassing, cringe and cartoon like.

[Chris0013]

Well...with those kids around Alicia really ain't gonna have to worry about anyone messing with her. Clobberers indeed.

And for the first time I am not liking Sue and her stalking/overprotectiveness.

[danielsan52]

oh please...

Anyone who had the power to turn invisible would do exactly the same thing if they were worried about someone. Especially if it were a family member.

[CaptCleghorn]

oh please...

Anyone who had the power to turn invisible would do exactly the same thing if they were worried about someone. Especially if it were a family member.

This is a great example of how we can express different opinions. I've raised a child, I've also worked in youth programs dealing with helicopter parents so I see where you're coming from. And yes, although many parents (moms) would think about doing this, I doubt it would be as common as you state. But the supporting data for either of us is non-existent so we can discuss ad nauseum. Sue's biggest point of criticism hers is Johnny's either 30 or pushing 30 and it really is time for Sue to back off.

I also think Sue may be projecting here. She likes bad boys. As much as namor is in her past, there was an attraction there in the Kirby days. And let's not forget one of her first dates with Reed had them stealing a rocket ship.

[CaptCleghorn]

Wow he's bad at writing Sue, but anyway to change the convo a bit.

It should be highlighted more that Sue was thrown into the situation of raising her brother. She was a child herself when the responsibility was forced on her. She likely had to grow up really fast as a result and lost out on some of her childhood. I think her perspective and frustrations with that should be shown more often than Johnny's perspective of the situation. There have been a few stories that have played with it from his sides of things, but rarely any from hers.

The Sue as Johnny's mother role is one that is a big part of their relationship. Johnny/Sue is hugely different than Franklin/Val, or even Jo-Venn and N'Kalla. Writers writing Johnny as a man-child is a trope I think we'd all like to see fade away. There are wacky "kewl" uncles in many families and Johnny fits the bill. However, Sue spending more time worrying about Johnny as opposed to spying on her own kids seems a big character flaw which may or may not be part of the big picture. Who's to say right now?

[Chris0013]

The Sue as Johnny's mother role is one that is a big part of their relationship. Johnny/Sue is hugely different than Franklin/Val, or even Jo-Venn and N'Kalla. Writers writing Johnny as a man-child is a trope I think we'd all like to see fade away. There are wacky "kewl" uncles in many families and Johnny fits the bill. However, Sue spending more time worrying about Johnny as opposed to spying on her own kids seems a big character flaw which may or may not be part of the big picture. Who's to say right now?

Same issue that writers/editorial have with Peter Parker....can't portray him as a responsible grown up with a good job in his private life because then he loses "appeal" to a certain demographic.

Johnny has to be written as an irresponsible man child because that is how he has always been written. I did like the issues leading up to Ben and Alicia's wedding where he was putting thought into his love life and wanting to find someone. I think they went about it the wrong way with Sky...but am willing to give it a chance and want to see Johnny be shown as more responsible...they have a pack of kids now to have the irresponsible antics now.

As for your previous comment on Johnny's age...exactly...he is probably around Peter's age...late 20s...so Sue needs to back off and let Johnny sink or swim on his own.

[danielsan52]

This is a great example of how we can express different opinions. I've raised a child, I've also worked in youth programs dealing with helicopter parents so I see where you're coming from. And yes, although many parents (moms) would think about doing this, I doubt it would be as common as you state. But the supporting data for either of us is non-existent so we can discuss ad nauseum. Sue's biggest point of criticism hers is Johnny's either 30 or pushing 30 and it really is time for Sue to back off.

I also think Sue may be projecting here. She likes bad boys. As much as namor is in her past, there was an attraction there in the Kirby days. And let's not forget one of her first dates with Reed had them stealing a rocket ship.

I agree she should back off, but I don't blame her for doing it once in a while. it's not like she is stalking their every move. But imagine your kid or sibling had some device permanently affixed to them that linked them with some rando person, now admittedly against their will. That's way more creepy than Sue spying.

[CaptCleghorn]

I agree she should back off, but I don't blame her for doing it once in a while. it's not like she is stalking their every move. But imagine your kid or sibling had some device permanently affixed to them that linked them with some rando person, now admittedly against their will. That's way more creepy than Sue spying.

Once in a while, I can understand. But the "creepiness" in the spying isn't the point. The issue, as I see it, is that Sue's being shown as out of character by doing it. I can better accept Reed putting nano trackers and recorders as part of the team's unstable molecule clothing line. Same basic action, but from Reed, we accept it as part of his character. I do suspect most of us are pretty much on the same page here, though.

[Chris0013]

Once in a while, I can understand. But the "creepiness" in the spying isn't the point. The issue, as I see it, is that Sue's being shown as out of character by doing it. I can better accept Reed putting nano trackers and recorders as part of the team's unstable molecule clothing line. Same basic action, but from Reed, we accept it as part of his character. I do suspect most of us are pretty much on the same page here, though.

In their FF suits...for mission purpose...is acceptable and even smart.

[CaptCleghorn]

In their FF suits...for mission purpose...is acceptable and even smart.

Exactly, but since the road to hell is paved with good intentions and superheroes are never really off-duty, it wouldn't be much of a jump to go from missions and costumes only to all clothes 24/7. Because there is NO definite line of appropriateness, characters(and fans) will have different ideas of what's OK and what's creepy. This is a great discussion topic for a thread.

[Journey]

I just caught up on FF and gotta say Johnny & Birdlady are just so "Fetch!!"

[Triniking1234]

So Knull's powers is guilt-tripping people? I wish FF got to skip this event like most of X-Men did.

[danielsan52]

So Knull's powers is guilt-tripping people? I wish FF got to skip this event like most of X-Men did.

I'm sick of events altogether.