The Fantastic Four Appreciation 2021

[BAS]

This x100000000

He goes on and on about his sales to justify his stories but ignores the fact sales don't always equal quality, otherwise we'd have never got another 8 fast and furious movies.

I will take Spencers Spidey every single day over Slotts man child and thank god he fixed the MJ issue that Slott refused to touch.

As for FF, Sue is just wallpaper or a sad stalking mother it's so bad how he writes her.

Reed and Ben having ANOTHER fight in the future is such a tired old troupe that I'm dreading it, Johnny is now a total scumbag brain dead cheater to top it off.

I was starved of FF for over 3 years after Marvel had a hissy fit over the fox stuff and when they finally return we get sunset beach FF.

Agree with this 99%.

But to dis the Fast and Furious franchise?!
There's nothing wrong with completely mindless, nonsensical, over-the-top automotive action to escape from reality on a Sunday afternoon. The bank heist in South America is still my favorite one. I would never classify them as quality cinema, but the action scenes more than make up for the lack of plot and character.

[Iron Maiden]

You should make a thread with spoilers similar to IM's thread about issue 677. I'd love to see your take on Russell's Sue. As "four" me, I'm still a few hours from getting the book but am breathlessly awaiting the mix of one of my favoorite writers and my favorite comic book.

If no one else does, I will but I won't be getting this until this afternoon. But I will contribute to whoever starts one.

[Phoenixx9]

I think there is a considerable amount of GOOD discussion on where fans differ on parts of the latest issues. I seriously LOVE the FF and have been reading the book constantly for over 50 years. I like when others share my opinions as well. But seeing post after post of "They're awesomest" gets boring quickly. The particular aspects that get the most interaction here show us where each of us find what it is we love about the family. Yes, some of us repeat ourselves. We have buttons that get pressed, but I find the majority of the posters here love the franchise, even if they don't even like many parts of what's currently going on. I hope when Life Story hits the stands in a few hours, we'll have a different tone in posts about the book. But even though the thread says appreciation it's not blind unconditional love. And that makes what we have to say interesting to me, even if I may disagree with some of it.

This is so well said, CC, thank. you.
I, too have been reading for eons; since v.1 #64 Sentry Sinister? While I don't keep up with each and every appearance, especially in recent years, or all of the side series or mini's (but I used to), I've always read and loved the main title and characters.
I'm extremely fond of them and often feel my view of certain eras and such, are vitally important to the Marvel universe.
I think there is only a brief not quite year in the 1973 era, where I may have missed a few issues, initially, though a few years later I caught up.
I go on about the DeFalco era, but a lot of earlier eras are truly my more favorite.
Like the lead up to # 200 and then most the early issues thereafter and the beginning of the Byrne era.
In fact, as a much younger person, and fan, I often wrote letters to the FF, Defenders, Avengers and others around then; late '70s. or so.
My first ever letter was printed in the first issue that Byrne ever drew; "Reach for the Stars" ? with the red toned cover.
So, FF forever, yeah, baby!

Wow, so you guys have been reading the FF for a very long time now, like almost 60 years!

So, you must have paid the 10 cents cover prices? That was so reasonable for all the entertainment back then. Compared with today's prices. How do you both see the prices? The stories of today and artwork compared to then?

[Oberon]

They were 12 cents in '67, when I was not quite 12.
I remember a 2 page spread in, maybe Avengers # 44 or 45 (awesome Super Adaptoid story) showing the Marvel cartoons; Cap, Namor, Iron Man, Thor and Hulk.
It was a great time.
years earlier, '64, I was in the hospital and someone gave me a Strange Tales, which I recently mentioned; the story with Torch's battle with Wizard and how Sue was his Ace in the hole. Moody type art etc. I would have been around 8, and didn't read that well yet, but I realized this was not Superman! Now those I think were around 10 cents.

Being a kid makes it seem more awesome. I remember in that '67 or '68 era I had all my comics; mostly Marvel, in a shoe box, a dozen or two. They meant the world to me.
I was quite a bookish child, since I was somewhat indoors and sickly for years.

[BAS]

I think there is a considerable amount of GOOD discussion on where fans differ on parts of the latest issues. I seriously LOVE the FF and have been reading the book constantly for over 50 years. I like when others share my opinions as well. But seeing post after post of "They're awesomest" gets boring quickly. The particular aspects that get the most interaction here show us where each of us find what it is we love about the family. Yes, some of us repeat ourselves. We have buttons that get pressed, but I find the majority of the posters here love the franchise, even if they don't even like many parts of what's currently going on. I hope when Life Story hits the stands in a few hours, we'll have a different tone in posts about the book. But even though the thread says appreciation it's not blind unconditional love. And that makes what we have to say interesting to me, even if I may disagree with some of it.

This is so well said, CC, thank. you.
I, too have been reading for eons; since v.1 #64 Sentry Sinister? While I don't keep up with each and every appearance, especially in recent years, or all of the side series or mini's (but I used to), I've always read and loved the main title and characters.
I'm extremely fond of them and often feel my view of certain eras and such, are vitally important to the Marvel universe.
I think there is only a brief not quite year in the 1973 era, where I may have missed a few issues, initially, though a few years later I caught up.
I go on about the DeFalco era, but a lot of earlier eras are truly my more favorite.
Like the lead up to # 200 and then most the early issues thereafter and the beginning of the Byrne era.
In fact, as a much younger person, and fan, I often wrote letters to the FF, Defenders, Avengers and others around then; late '70s. or so.
My first ever letter was printed in the first issue that Byrne ever drew; "Reach for the Stars" ? with the red toned cover.
So, FF forever, yeah, baby!

I believe my initial introduction to the Fantastic Four was watching the Saturday morning cartoon show, along with Spider-man. It wasn't until a couple years later that I would get to read some copies of Marvel Collectors Item Classics featuring the FF. My first book featured the Molecule Man.
I didn't get hooked until about issue 165, but I've collected consistently since then and also bought many back issues to about issue 100 - not to mention the artwork, books, and collectibles I picked up on the way.

Some of the recent retcons have been OK but some seem completely superficial and in the end inconsequential.
I agree wholeheartedly with aging up Franklin and Valeria - maybe it's a sign of having read the series for several decades but toddler and juvenile Franklin was very much a dead end. Especially when you consider all his contemporaries being aged well past him over the years.
Marrying off Ben and Alicia was well overdue, and actually I kind of like the introduction of the Kree and Skrull kids.
I don't like Slott's handling of Sue, and I can't stand what he's done recently to Johnny and even more so Doom. I don't get progress on a couple of characters but then regressing the rest.

[CaptCleghorn]

I believe my initial introduction to the Fantastic Four was watching the Saturday morning cartoon show, along with Spider-man. It wasn't until a couple years later that I would get to read some copies of Marvel Collectors Item Classics featuring the FF. My first book featured the Molecule Man.
I didn't get hooked until about issue 165, but I've collected consistently since then and also bought many back issues to about issue 100 - not to mention the artwork, books, and collectibles I picked up on the way.

Some of the recent retcons have been OK but some seem completely superficial and in the end inconsequential.
I agree wholeheartedly with aging up Franklin and Valeria - maybe it's a sign of having read the series for several decades but toddler and juvenile Franklin was very much a dead end. Especially when you consider all his contemporaries being aged well past him over the years.
Marrying off Ben and Alicia was well overdue, and actually I kind of like the introduction of the Kree and Skrull kids.
I don't like Slott's handling of Sue, and I can't stand what he's done recently to Johnny and even more so Doom. I don't get progress on a couple of characters but then regressing the rest.

I also got my FF introduction through the Saturday morning cartoon. The first issue I got was 85 and I wondered why Sue was being called "Crys". But, I caught on very quickly.., This was the tail end of the 12 cent issues and 15 soon occurred.

As to the FF over the years, character development has happened and been revrsed usually when a new writer comes on board and they want to do it their way. Cue Johnny growing the f up and Reed gaining humanity. As for Sue, she was introduced in the early sixties and for a while was "the girl". How much of her development was due to her actual character growth and how much was due to a more progressive treatment of women characters is open to interpretation.

[Journey]

Aging up Franklin & Valeria was one of the best things done in this run they needed to evolve. Franklin should be in his early 20's I mean Wiccan & Speed were born after he shattered Mephisto and their older than him due to sliding timescale & assorted BS! He needed to grow! Valeria aswell though her age makes no sense to me.

[Iron Maiden]

Aging up Franklin & Valeria was one of the best things done in this run they needed to evolve. Franklin should be in his early 20's I mean Wiccan & Speed were born after he shattered Mephisto and their older than him due to sliding timescale & assorted BS! He needed to grow! Valeria aswell though her age makes no sense to me.

I think it was a good idea also, especially with Franklin, who was born during Stan and Jack's time!

And then you have Kristoff, who was around the same age as Franklin. Kristoff was no more than 6 or 7 when he made his first appearance in John Byrne's FF 247. But the gap between became larger and larger over the years. In Charles Soule's She Hulk series he was old enough to petition for emancipation from his step father and was much taller that Franklin at that point. He was probably mid to late teens in that.

In his most recent appearance in Doctor Doom #6, he had a beard. He is now the governor of Symkaria when it got annexed by Latveria.



And in his most recent appearance in Doctor Doom #6, he had a beard. He is now the governor of Symkaria when it got annexed by Latveria.

[Crimz]

Wouldn't mind Franklin being older and seeing his destiny unfold a bit in the present. Val I think was aged too much, she should be around 10 years old at most and her being a teen isn't fun. She completely lost that spark that made her interesting and enjoyable to read. She's now like every other teen genius in the comic medium.

[Thundershot]

Just to nit-pick Lyja was revealed very early in Tom DeFalco's run. It's my belief the idea of Lyja was his and not something planned from early on.

It was absolutely not planned from the start. Defalco didn’t want a married Johnny, so he ended the marriage without Johnny being the “bad guy” and Alicia got a fresh start as well. Also we got Lyja out of the deal, which for me, is a win.

[CaptCleghorn]

Wouldn't mind Franklin being older and seeing his destiny unfold a bit in the present. Val I think was aged too much, she should be around 10 years old at most and her being a teen isn't fun. She completely lost that spark that made her interesting and enjoyable to read. She's now like every other teen genius in the comic medium.

I agree, but I get that how far to go is a very tough call and a line that I doubt any two writers could agree on.

As for Val, Hickman, Slott, and Millar all failed to grasp the part of Val that made her a kid. Family Guy's Stewie and Brian both have intelligences that surpass what they would normally have and yet, Brian often drops into typical dog behavior and Stewie into toddler actions. Usually for laughs, but we get the jokes. Very few writers for marvel (or DC) get handling a pre-teen child. They often aren't good at teenagers, but they are better with teens than those younger.

[Snoop Dogg]

Val being a teenager is good and should allow writers to push her being the fucked up family member farther, but Slott missed the basic point of the character.

[Frontier]

Teen Val doesn't really feel all that different to me. She's just taller and capable of more mischief, if anything. I guess her attitude is a little worse.

[Ravin' Ray]

FF #33 variant cover by Dike Ruan. Stripes make me think Sandman but he's very fluid here like Hydro-Man.

[Digifiend]

Maybe they combined? Sand plus water = mud, which would explain the watery Sandman.

Wouldn't mind Franklin being older and seeing his destiny unfold a bit in the present. Val I think was aged too much, she should be around 10 years old at most and her being a teen isn't fun. She completely lost that spark that made her interesting and enjoyable to read. She's now like every other teen genius in the comic medium.

Weren't their last stated ages 3 and 8? Now they seem to be 13 and 15, so the age gap narrowed. They were supposed to age up by five years, so it should now be 8 and 13. Though Franklin's age of 15 does make sense as he really should've been aged up earlier.