The Fantastic Four Appreciation 2021

[Revolutionary_Jack]

What does everyone think of the possibility of Reed being made canonically on the autistic spectrum?

I personally would like it if done right.

If it were done right is the key takeaway.

[Reviresco]

What does everyone think of the possibility of Reed being made canonically on the autistic spectrum?

I personally would like it if done right.

Absolutely NOT.

If it were done right is the key takeaway.

Even if were done right once, which I sincerely doubt, it would have to be done right in perpetuity. Not going to happen.

[Reviresco]

https://twitter.com/Marvel/status/1425165212999725063

The Cover for #38 and the (in my opinion) obvious Guest Star are revealed. It's was either Jen or Peter in my opinion, but won't complain about more Slott She-Hulk.

Maybe a custody case with Ben and Alicia's kids, did they ever get Earth-Custody for them?

I agree. This would be a welcome guest star that I don't think would be botched.

Avengers #50/#750 is also in November, i guess they spoiled the end of the next Avengers arc with this cover *shrug*

Even if not, thankfully, Aaron's run doesn't seem to be acknowledged that much by other writers.

[CaptCleghorn]

I agree. This would be a welcome guest star that I don't think would be botched.

True this. Slott's She-Hulk was a very good series and using Jen in that fashion would be a bright spot here. If only Awesome Andy came along for the ride.

[Iron Maiden]

What does everyone think of the possibility of Reed being made canonically on the autistic spectrum?

I personally would like it if done right.

I think this was first brought up by Morrison in Fantastic Four 1234 but doing a little googling it was brought up in the Fantastic Four: Season One GN written by Roberto Aguirre-Sacasa. I think if it is true it is probably a mild case. A young relative of mine is going through some therapy and it was brought up as a possible diagnosis. From what little I know of it there is a broad spectrum from mild cases to severe and I guess Reed could have a mild case. It might affect the way he recently interacted with Doom in Cantwell's mini series. It's hard to tell if he was deliberately pushing Doom's buttons or it was just Reed being Reed clashing with Doom's insecurities. It would be worth taking a look at that possibility. I remember he had a run in with Hank Pym and IIRC Reed insisted that he knew more about Pym particles

[Doom'nGloom]

Reed sometimes seems like someone who can be oblivious to the feelings of those around him and he can't always read the room which make him seem condescending or arrogant though I never read that as a form of autism, more like a little social awkwardness. That said I'm not against the idea.

[Iron Maiden]

Reed sometimes seems like someone who can be oblivious to the feelings of those around him and he can't always read the room which make him seem condescending or arrogant though I never read that as a form of autism, more like a little social awkwardness. That said I'm not against the idea.

I am by far no expert but it may be that Reed has the milder Asperger's Syndrome. Some professionals think it is a different from autism while others think it is just the milder form.

From the linked article here is a description:

What distinguishes Asperger’s Disorder from classic autism are its less severe symptoms and the absence of language delays. Children with Asperger’s Disorder may be only mildly affected, and they frequently have good language and cognitive skills. To the untrained observer, a child with Asperger’s Disorder may just seem like a neurotypical child behaving differently.

Children with autism are frequently viewed as aloof and uninterested in others. This is not the case with Asperger’s Disorder. Individuals with Asperger’s Disorder usually want to fit in and have interaction with others, but often they don’t know how to do it. They may be socially awkward, not understand conventional social rules or show a lack of empathy. They may have limited eye contact, seem unengaged in a conversation and not understand the use of gestures or sarcasm.

[marhawkman]

I am by far no expert but it may be that Reed as the milder Asperger's Syndrome. Some professionals think it is a different from autism while others think it is just the milder form.

From the linked article here is a description:

Yeah really. It's a matter of grasping nuances. It's not even IF you CAN get it, but how quickly you get it and often you realize after it's too late to use.

[Digifiend]

Yesterday was a bloody day for the FF. spoilers:

Two members dead... but both were in AUs. Reed died in Spider-Man Spider's Shadow, and Johnny in FF Life Story.

end of spoilers

[Lucyinthesky]

Reed sometimes seems like someone who can be oblivious to the feelings of those around him and he can't always read the room which make him seem condescending or arrogant though I never read that as a form of autism, more like a little social awkwardness. That said I'm not against the idea.

I agree with this Reed looks more like someone who has an understanding of the world different from almost everybody else and it´s hard sometimes for him to explain or take in consideration what other people may think about the same issue, there´s scene from Hickman´s run in which he supposes he already knows everything Sue is going to tell him because he has been married to her for such a long time and has been studying her the whole time but what Sue makes sure to tell him is that she understands it´s hard for him to communicate his need to solve problems most other people don´t even see are there until they become bigger but that she will be there for him.What I liked from that scene was that Sue showed him the fact he has an incredible hability to solve mysteries with science doesn´t mean he understands everything there´s to know about other people or how they think or where they come from without listening to them first so he simply assumes he knows better. Emotional intelligence and mathematical Competency are not the same thing even if Reed believes he can understand the first because he´s so good at the second.

Tony and Victor also have this same problem, there´s not doubt of their understanding an competency on their camp is outmatched but their understanding of people is completely other thing and sometimes scapes them and my guess is that Reed sees in Victor someone who can finally understand his pov in a way that´s so hard for other people to see but the problem is that them both are so bad at communicating this and sometimes so competitive that competition over who´s better at solving a problem takes precedence over a possible friendship even without the whole baggage from their fights as Mr Fantastic and Dr Doom.

[Doom'nGloom]

I agree with this Reed looks more like someone who has an understanding of the world different from almost everybody else and it´s hard sometimes for him to explain or take in consideration what other people may think about the same issue, there´s scene from Hickman´s run in which he supposes he already knows everything Sue is going to tell him because he has been married to her for such a long time and has been studying her the whole time but what Sue makes sure to tell him is that she understands it´s hard for him to communicate his need to solve problems most other people don´t even see are there until they become bigger but that she will be there for him.What I liked from that scene was that Sue showed him the fact he has an incredible hability to solve mysteries with science doesn´t mean he understands everything there´s to know about other people or how they think or where they come from without listening to them first so he simply assumes he knows better. Emotional intelligence and mathematical Competency are not the same thing even if Reed believes he can understand the first because he´s so good at the second.

Tony and Victor also have this same problem, there´s not doubt of their understanding an competency on their camp is outmatched but their understanding of people is completely other thing and sometimes scapes them and my guess is that Reed sees in Victor someone who can finally understand his pov in a way that´s so hard for other people to see but the problem is that them both are so bad at communicating this and sometimes so competitive that competition over who´s better at solving a problem takes precedence over a possible friendship even without the whole baggage from their fights as Mr Fantastic and Dr Doom.

Yeah Reed tries applying mathematical logic to almost everything including other people yet humans are motivated by not only logic but also emotions, maybe even more so. Understanding others requires empathy that Reed lacks some as shown many times in comics. This makes me a fan of the idea that the main difference between Reed and Victor is that Reed has a family (no offence Kristoff) that grounds him, teaching him about how humans think, feel and behave which can't be explained by only logic. Meanwhile Doom may have the best interest of humanity at heart but he tries accomplishing his goals in a very self centered way with almost no care of who he hurts along the way.

[Lucyinthesky]

Yeah Reed tries applying mathematical logic to almost everything including other people yet humans are motivated by not only logic but also emotions, maybe even more so. Understanding others requires empathy that Reed lacks some as shown many times in comics. This makes me a fan of the idea that the main difference between Reed and Victor is that Reed has a family (no offence Kristoff) that grounds him, teaching him about how humans think, feel and behave which can't be explained by only logic. Meanwhile Doom may have the best interest of humanity at heart but he tries accomplishing his goals in a very self centered way with almost no care of who he hurts along the way.

Agreed completely with this point and I believe this is at the center of the FF4 story, that family makes us better persons in the end, no matter how much power or knownledge one may have on their own, everybody needs other people to center us into what´s important in life. I agree Reed understands this better than Victor but he sometimes needs to be reminded of this because when he´s not, we are left with ultimate Reed. I also think for this same reason he´s very interested in becoming a real friend to Doom because appart from family, having a friend that understands the way he thinks would help in center him in a completely new way and he does have a version of Victor that´s his friend but even in this case, sometimes it seems like Victor is also a problem he would like to fix/solve by becoming his "friend" and this may be the reason why their friendship has not worked in the main universe.

On Victor´s case, I think he put so much effort into being better by himself, on his own that it´s hard for him to see other people as equals, let alone family, unless they shown him complete loyalty but in this case even the "family" he gets for their loyalty like Kristoff, Boris and Zora they can´t be family to him in practice, just subjects and you need family on a equal footing with you so that you may learn from them and them from you. I liked that his solo series had his wish for family at the center but that he still expects them to be loyal to him over being equals with him, it shows the differences he holds with Reed while other FF4 stories have shown Reed and him have more similarities than they care to admit.

[CaptCleghorn]

Agreed completely with this point and I believe this is at the center of the FF4 story, that family makes us better persons in the end, no matter how much power or knownledge one may have on their own, everybody needs other people to center us into what´s important in life. I agree Reed understands this better than Victor but he sometimes needs to be reminded of this because when he´s not, we are left with ultimate Reed. I also think for this same reason he´s very interested in becoming a real friend to Doom because appart from family, having a friend that understands the way he thinks would help in center him in a completely new way and he does have a version of Victor that´s his friend but even in this case, sometimes it seems like Victor is also a problem he would like to fix/solve by becoming his "friend" and this may be the reason why their friendship has not worked in the main universe.

On Victor´s case, I think he put so much effort into being better by himself, on his own that it´s hard for him to see other people as equals, let alone family, unless they shown him complete loyalty but in this case even the "family" he gets for their loyalty like Kristoff, Boris and Zora they can´t be family to him in practice, just subjects and you need family on a equal footing with you so that you may learn from them and them from you. I liked that his solo series had his wish for family at the center but that he still expects them to be loyal to him over being equals with him, it shows the differences he holds with Reed while other FF4 stories have shown Reed and him have more similarities than they care to admit.

A pretty defining quality of good vs evil Reeds throughout the multiverse is the presence of Sue. When she is with him, he's a good dude. When she isn't, he's a bad guy. I've speculated that Victor saw this and in Secret Wars, had a Sue Storm as his consort to utilize this for his ruling of Battleworld. A common belief is that Doom had Sue to rub Reed's nose in it, but there was no Reed to gloat over. Plus, it wasn't his Sue, but an alternate version..

[Iron Maiden]

A pretty defining quality of good vs evil Reeds throughout the multiverse is the presence of Sue. When she is with him, he's a good dude. When she isn't, he's a bad guy. I've speculated that Victor saw this and in Secret Wars, had a Sue Storm as his consort to utilize this for his ruling of Battleworld. A common belief is that Doom had Sue to rub Reed's nose in it, but there was no Reed to gloat over. Plus, it wasn't his Sue, but an alternate version..

Yes, I lot of people still think that was Sue and the kids from Earth Prime in spite of the fact that Hickman took the trouble to show her origin. Her version of the Fantastic Four was lead by her father IIRC. And most telling is that Doom starts to go off the rails when it's revealed that Reed's survival craft survived the final incursion and Doctor Strange kept it hidden for a while. Doom ends up killing the physical form of Doctor Strange when he finds out that he was hiding them from Doom.

And I would just like to add that I did find the spot where it is put out there that Reed may have autism. He admits he self-diagnosed. But it does occur in the GN Fantastic Four: Season 1

[marhawkman]

A pretty defining quality of good vs evil Reeds throughout the multiverse is the presence of Sue. When she is with him, he's a good dude. When she isn't, he's a bad guy. I've speculated that Victor saw this and in Secret Wars, had a Sue Storm as his consort to utilize this for his ruling of Battleworld. A common belief is that Doom had Sue to rub Reed's nose in it, but there was no Reed to gloat over. Plus, it wasn't his Sue, but an alternate version..

Heh, there's been two versions of the FF with Doom(or "Doom") as their leader, and in both cases Sue was living as Doom's wife. One of them was actually Reed somehow trapped in Doctor Doom's armor, but one of them was seemingly Victor von Doom... acting as a hero after Reed died. Notably this version of the FF wore costumes that resembled Doom's armor outfit.