Page 2 of 24 FirstFirst 12345612 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 357
  1. #16
    Fantastic Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    344

    Default

    December, 2020 - Loses credibility as noble, sympathetic, flawed human being with a modicum of decency, after he kills an entire universe.

    Even Thanos left half the universe behind.

    Goodbye, Victor.

  2. #17
    Astonishing Member K7P5V's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Chicago, Illinois
    Posts
    4,445

    Default

    Here's hoping 2021 will bring better things for both Doom & Latveria


  3. #18
    Fantastic Member DoomScribe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    San Diego, CA and Den of Madness, Castle Doom, Latveria
    Posts
    348

    Default

    Added to the Den of Madness today from the Venomized Doctor Doom funko pop collection:
    2021-01-02 15.27.11.jpg2021-01-02 15.27.39.jpg
    "Because ... I am Doom
    ... What Gods dare stand against me?"


    Posting from the dungeon of Castle Doom, Latveria

  4. #19
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Latverian Embassy
    Posts
    16,681

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DoomScribe View Post
    Added to the Den of Madness today from the Venomized Doctor Doom funko pop collection:
    2021-01-02 15.27.11.jpg2021-01-02 15.27.39.jpg
    Those look pretty cool. Has Doom ever been venomized? From the way he took care of the symbiote paindeer, I'd say he has some pretty good defensive weapons against it.

  5. #20
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Latverian Embassy
    Posts
    16,681

    Default

    **** SPOILER ALERT This post contains a SPOILER for Avengers #40 ***


    Doom's appearance in Avengers #40 was originally mentioned by forum member Jabare towards the end of the closed thread.

    So I decided to check this out last night and I have to say my concerns were greatly diminished about Doom appearing in this Phoenix event. I figured when I saw the preview panels of an early round matchup between Doom and Cap that it would end up with Doom losing in the early rounds. To begin with, I have no idea how Doom got to where he is in the story...I skimmed through the prior two issues of the Avengers and there are no indications there. One of the conditions of the contest is that the contenders get a part of the Phoenix Force to use in the tournament. I have no idea where this happens...the story pretty much jumps into this early round with Captain America vs Doctor Doom.

    While it is true that Doom is not part of the contest anymore (barring a surprise return as the story progresses), I love how he did make his exit on his own terms and tells the Phoenix to pound sand...he's done with this nonsense. I did find it a bit wacky, but in a good way, how Doom "talks" to the Phoenix in terms of a sexual encounter. But I do agree with how Aaron, through Doom at least , sees that the Phoenix is not some cuddly entity that it was shown to be in some X-Men stories where it is almost like a pet. This is an entity that when it took control of Jean caused her to wipe out an entire populated planet while indulging herself in the new found power.

    But on the other hand I didn't think Doom's ranting about to the Phoenix to about "give yourself wholly unto Doom and together we will burn this paltry cosmos" is where he is right now. I think he's had more than enough taste of destroying universes in the recently concluded Doctor Doom series. In the story, I guess all the contestants get a makeover when they get this small portion of the Phoenix Force. Cap's look is really quite a good one for him but I found Doom's pretty underwhelming. it's pretty much the same except minus the cloak/cape part. I don't plan on spending any more money on this and will probably wait until it shows up on Marvel Unlimited in a few months. Maybe I will find out how Doom got there in the first place....it's probably in a tie-in somewhere.



    Attached Images Attached Images

  6. #21
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    The Sunless Realm
    Posts
    10,228

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    **** SPOILER ALERT This post contains a SPOILER for Avengers #40 ***


    Doom's appearance in Avengers #40 was originally mentioned by forum member Jabare towards the end of the closed thread.

    So I decided to check this out last night and I have to say my concerns were greatly diminished about Doom appearing in this Phoenix event. I figured when I saw the preview panels of an early round matchup between Doom and Cap that it would end up with Doom losing in the early rounds. To begin with, I have no idea how Doom got to where he is in the story...I skimmed through the prior two issues of the Avengers and there are no indications there. One of the conditions of the contest is that the contenders get a part of the Phoenix Force to use in the tournament. I have no idea where this happens...the story pretty much jumps into this early round with Captain America vs Doctor Doom.

    While it is true that Doom is not part of the contest anymore (barring a surprise return as the story progresses), I love how he did make his exit on his own terms and tells the Phoenix to pound sand...he's done with this nonsense. I did find it a bit wacky, but in a good way, how Doom "talks" to the Phoenix in terms of a sexual encounter. But I do agree with how Aaron, through Doom at least , sees that the Phoenix is not some cuddly entity that it was shown to be in some X-Men stories where it is almost like a pet. This is a an entity that when it took control of Jean caused her to wipe out an entire populated planet while indulging herself in the new found power.

    But on the other had I didn't think Doom's ranting about to the Phoenix to about "give yourself wholly unto Doom and together we will burn this paltry cosmos" is where he is right now. I think he's had more than enough taste of destroying universes in the recently concluded Doctor Doom series. In the story, I guess all the contestants get a makeover when they get this small portion of the Phoenix Force. Caps look is really quite a good one for him but I found Doom's pretty underwhelming. it's pretty much the same except minus the cloak/cape part. I don't plan on spending any more money on this and will probably wait until it shows up on Marvel Unlimited in a few months. Maybe I will find out how Doom got there in the first place....it's probably in a tie-in somewhere.
    You're giving Aaron too much credit. He hasn't shown how any of the Phoenix candidates got there, or WHY in the world the Phoenix would pick some of these characters. I mean, ZABU??? Moon Girl??? Fricking ORB? It's just his pet favorites and MCU characters and a few characters from his long running plots. His whole premise, i.e. that Namor called the Phoenix to be possessed again, ignores Namor's character and what has shown up in print about how he hated it. Likewise, he's ignoring Doom's last series. I've no idea why he chose to interlace flashbacks with the Doom and Cap fight... it just made things more confusing. I do agree with you that Doom got cheated in the Phoenix costume department and that Doom's best part was telling the Phoenix to 'pound sand." LOL!


    I think this is an appropriate response for this.




    Early Dr. Doom illustration by John Byrne intended for the unpublished 13th issue of Contemporary Pictorial Literature, circa 1974.
    ***Namor75 Celebration Threads***

    IMPERIUS REX FOREVER

  7. #22
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    The Sunless Realm
    Posts
    10,228

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DoomScribe View Post
    Added to the Den of Madness today from the Venomized Doctor Doom funko pop collection:
    2021-01-02 15.27.11.jpg2021-01-02 15.27.39.jpg
    I'm not really a fan of Venom, but NICE loot!
    ***Namor75 Celebration Threads***

    IMPERIUS REX FOREVER

  8. #23
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Latverian Embassy
    Posts
    16,681

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post
    You're giving Aaron too much credit. He hasn't shown how any of the Phoenix candidates got there, or WHY in the world the Phoenix would pick some of these characters. I mean, ZABU??? Moon Girl??? Fricking ORB? It's just his pet favorites and MCU characters and a few characters from his long running plots. His whole premise, i.e. that Namor called the Phoenix to be possessed again, ignores Namor's character and what has shown up in print about how he hated it. Likewise, he's ignoring Doom's last series. I've no idea why he chose to interlace flashbacks with the Doom and Cap fight... it just made things more confusing. I do agree with you that Doom got cheated in the Phoenix costume department and that Doom's best part was telling the Phoenix to 'pound sand." LOL!


    I think this is an appropriate response for this.


    I do like that Byrne piece....It was probably buried somewhere in one of the older Doom threads the last time it got posted. So it is good to have it here. I think I've seen the colored version somewhere.

    Oh, I tried not to give Aaron too much credit since I am glad he's not going to use Doom in this. I really understand you not being too thrilled about Namor being there. I'm also not interested in another wash-rinse-repeat of the last Phoenix swapping story in Avengers vs X-Men.

  9. #24
    Citizen of Atlantis ImperiusWrecked's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Atlantis
    Posts
    1,585

    Default

    Hello fellow Doom Fans! I hope for good things for Doctor Doom this year, however I'm still processing and a tad upset over how the Doom series ended, alas that is a rant for another day. The Phoenix Doom thing was so pointless, the whole Phoenix Avengers arc is so pointless!
    "No one should ever question where my allegiance lies." - Namor of Atlantis

  10. #25
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Latverian Embassy
    Posts
    16,681

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ImperiusWrecked View Post
    Hello fellow Doom Fans! I hope for good things for Doctor Doom this year, however I'm still processing and a tad upset over how the Doom series ended, alas that is a rant for another day. The Phoenix Doom thing was so pointless, the whole Phoenix Avengers arc is so pointless!
    Yes, I know what you mean about both. I can't help but wonder what the Doctor Doom series would have been like had Cantwell been able to continue instead of it coming to an end after 10 issues when it's clear now that he had a second arc already planned & plotted. I don't know how far along he was with the actual writing.

    I am planning on linking all Doom related interviews on the intro page, now that we have a handle on the reboot. Cantwell gave so many great Doom-related interviews or interviews with multiple topics where Doom is discussed. I don't know if you had a chance to read it but on the closed thread for 2020, he goes into detail about his though process on Doctor Doom #10. My gut feeling is that during the pandemic, Cantwell had worked on the second arc and then at some point it was decided to end the series with #10. Many noted that those last 3 issues seemed to cram a lot of events, or events that were just summarized in a splash page. There were a lot of things up in the air like the Mistress Death's role. She never returned to collect on her debt but it's just mentioned that Doom states he had now become her greatest servant by destroying the reformed Doom and his universe. The explanation of what happened to the Antlion...did it's destruction create a black hole or a worm hole... was wrapped up at a conference table. I expected Kang to return at some point but would have liked to have seen more with these frenemies. What about his meeting with Valeria in the underworld? That could have been the jump off to another arc. I still would like to see an attempt to save her from her fate, which was totally undeserved.

    I was a bit encouraged by Cantwell's exit interview with one of the hosts at Adventures in Poor Taste. A Not So Wonderful Life: Christopher Cantwell Reflects on Doctor Doom.
    Whether you agree with him or not you have to admit he does have method to the madness of writing Doctor Doom, who does have a lot of ups and downs in his publication history (*cough* "Unthinkable *cough*)

    It is a bit maddening because while Cantwell does acknowledge the potential in Doom but at the end of it all, he just isn't there yet. He can't be the other universe's Victor with just a snap of his fingers and say "This all ends...no more villainy from now on". We saw how that went in Infamous Iron Man. The "Bedford Falls" Doom didn't take any shortcuts. He served his time in prison, even though I think 10 years is a surprisingly merciful sentence, and cast aside the battle armor and all the trappings of a monarch.


    Oh, In just one sample, I know the smart move is too just ignore the Phoenix "event". They've not done anything original with the concept for decades IMO.

  11. #26
    Citizen of Atlantis ImperiusWrecked's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Atlantis
    Posts
    1,585

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    Yes, I know what you mean about both. I can't help but wonder what the Doctor Doom series would have been like had Cantwell been able to continue instead of it coming to an end after 10 issues when it's clear now that he had a second arc already planned & plotted. I don't know how far along he was with the actual writing.

    I am planning on linking all Doom related interviews on the intro page, now that we have a handle on the reboot. Cantwell gave so many great Doom-related interviews or interviews with multiple topics where Doom is discussed. I don't know if you had a chance to read it but on the closed thread for 2020, he goes into detail about his though process on Doctor Doom #10. My gut feeling is that during the pandemic, Cantwell had worked on the second arc and then at some point it was decided to end the series with #10. Many noted that those last 3 issues seemed to cram a lot of events, or events that were just summarized in a splash page. There were a lot of things up in the air like the Mistress Death's role. She never returned to collect on her debt but it's just mentioned that Doom states he had now become her greatest servant by destroying the reformed Doom and his universe. The explanation of what happened to the Antlion...did it's destruction create a black hole or a worm hole... was wrapped up at a conference table. I expected Kang to return at some point but would have liked to have seen more with these frenemies. What about his meeting with Valeria in the underworld? That could have been the jump off to another arc. I still would like to see an attempt to save her from her fate, which was totally undeserved.

    I was a bit encouraged by Cantwell's exit interview with one of the hosts at Adventures in Poor Taste. A Not So Wonderful Life: Christopher Cantwell Reflects on Doctor Doom.
    Whether you agree with him or not you have to admit he does have method to the madness of writing Doctor Doom, who does have a lot of ups and downs in his publication history (*cough* "Unthinkable *cough*)

    It is a bit maddening because while Cantwell does acknowledge the potential in Doom but at the end of it all, he just isn't there yet. He can't be the other universe's Victor with just a snap of his fingers and say "This all ends...no more villainy from now on". We saw how that went in Infamous Iron Man. The "Bedford Falls" Doom didn't take any shortcuts. He served his time in prison, even though I think 10 years is a surprisingly merciful sentence, and cast aside the battle armor and all the trappings of a monarch.


    Oh, In just one sample, I know the smart move is too just ignore the Phoenix "event". They've not done anything original with the concept for decades IMO.
    Thanks for the link to that article its very insightful into Cantwell's thought process but I had a different opinion of Doom than he does when I read this statement:

    But ultimately our Doom has to reject this alternate reality because in order to accept it, he has to completely nullify who he is. Doom is too fatalistically proud to do that, at least our Doom is. So he either nullifies himself, or nullifies this universe. Itís clear what he chooses.
    I feel as though while Doom is a very proud creature he still wouldn't just decide to kill a whole world, he would have just killed his AU Self and been done with it, there was no point to killing everything in that Universe. What I think is that Doom saw this world where everything is perfect so it was like to him having the universe say: All those times you yearned for power, All those times you did the unspeakable for power, All the sacrifice, All that effort, all of it was in vain because you could have just CHOSEN to be happy, chosen to put all of your anger and emotions aside and chosen to be good. Which is b.s. imo. Doom is Doom because he thinks all of his efforts in the end is what will bring about a peace, also we did have Doom already try to be good! In Infamous Ironman. He already walked that path and got burned once more.

    Honestly I feel now that series is over that Cantwell is a mixed bag, he definitely understands Doom very well, his background, his character, and everything but there were key points that felt like he was simply cutting things away from Doom's character to bring him from point A to point B, like I still have an issue with Doom being so cruel and unkind to Boris and Kristoff. Also at this point I dislike Zora very much, there is no way a character created only 2 years ago has come to mean more to Doom and be his "hero" and adopted daughter. It just doesn't mesh imo.
    "No one should ever question where my allegiance lies." - Namor of Atlantis

  12. #27
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Latverian Embassy
    Posts
    16,681

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ImperiusWrecked View Post
    Thanks for the link to that article its very insightful into Cantwell's thought process but I had a different opinion of Doom than he does when I read this statement:

    I feel as though while Doom is a very proud creature he still wouldn't just decide to kill a whole world, he would have just killed his AU Self and been done with it, there was no point to killing everything in that Universe. What I think is that Doom saw this world where everything is perfect so it was like to him having the universe say: All those times you yearned for power, All those times you did the unspeakable for power, All the sacrifice, All that effort, all of it was in vain because you could have just CHOSEN to be happy, chosen to put all of your anger and emotions aside and chosen to be good. Which is b.s. imo. Doom is Doom because he thinks all of his efforts in the end is what will bring about a peace, also we did have Doom already try to be good! In Infamous Ironman. He already walked that path and got burned once more.
    I think the problem with Doom becoming Infamous Iron Man was that he wanted immediate acceptance. For him, he just felt that by going forward as this new Iron Man would be enough to convince others that he was sincere. He was always going to have a problem with those who felt he did the crime but didn't do the time to prove that he had paid his dues. This is what the Victor in the other universe did. Now that other Victor was still a bit arrogant and was really not reading his other self very well. I don't want to say he caused his own death but he should have dialed it down.

    Quote Originally Posted by ImperiusWrecked View Post
    Honestly I feel now that series is over that Cantwell is a mixed bag, he definitely understands Doom very well, his background, his character, and everything but there were key points that felt like he was simply cutting things away from Doom's character to bring him from point A to point B, like I still have an issue with Doom being so cruel and unkind to Boris and Kristoff. Also at this point I dislike Zora very much, there is no way a character created only 2 years ago has come to mean more to Doom and be his "hero" and adopted daughter. It just doesn't mesh imo.
    As for Zora, she has become quite prominent lately and if she appears anywhere it will probably be in Slott's Fantastic Four. That she has a some of the power cosmic is always going to make her more important to Doom than Kristoff unfortunately. I don't mind her presence as much as you do though. IMO almost any addition to Doom's supporting cast is welcome. At least Kristoff was rewarded with the title of governor of the Southern province of Latveria, formerly Symkaria. I hope that leads to some story potential with him.

    But I have to agree...why the hostility to Boris? That did come out of nowhere IMO. I guess we'll never know. My only thought is that one sometimes gets a sense from some of their encounters that Boris serves him out of fear and Doom knows this. And there could be some kind of need on Doom's part to do this to justify that he sold off Valeria to Mephisto. Does Boris know this? Does he ever wonder why she disappeared? I think Doom feels guilt over this and sometimes just seeing Boris may trigger that and it turned to anger.

    The part I think that needs to be revisited is that Doom already has a daughter that he has never met. And that is Doom's and Morgan Le Fey's daughter Caroline Le Fey. I really think she needs a major overhaul though. She was born in the past but her mother placed her in the near future at some point. Right now she is older than her father. She appeared only in Fearless Defenders a couple of years ago. I would rather they roll back her age to perhaps be no older than 17 or so. IIRC she is mostly human and I don't recall if she has her mother's near-immortality.

    To go off on a another tangent: At the end of Time Runs Out and before Secret Wars 2015 begins....we were only left with fragments of the Earths that were left. It seems to me that this means that the only survivors were those we saw in those different sections of Battleworld. For example Sue, Ben, Johnny, Franklin and Val were killed when their life raft was destroyed. When Reed got the Beyonder power from Molecule Man he got back his family so now he and Franklin could go about the task of rebooting everything. I assume it went back to the point where Black Swan first shows up in Wakanda. But how did Reed and Franklin pick and choose who would populate this rebooted universe. IMO they could just as easily brought back a lot of dead people if they didn't know they were dead. Why can't Doom's Valeria be alive back there living in Georgia as a fortune teller again?

  13. #28
    Fantastic Member DoomScribe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    San Diego, CA and Den of Madness, Castle Doom, Latveria
    Posts
    348

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ImperiusWrecked View Post
    Honestly I feel now that series is over that Cantwell is a mixed bag, he definitely understands Doom very well, his background, his character, and everything but there were key points that felt like he was simply cutting things away from Doom's character to bring him from point A to point B, like I still have an issue with Doom being so cruel and unkind to Boris and Kristoff. Also at this point I dislike Zora very much, there is no way a character created only 2 years ago has come to mean more to Doom and be his "hero" and adopted daughter. It just doesn't mesh imo.
    This is exactly right, and reflects my opinion as well. Like Iron Maiden, I don't mind new characters being added to Doom's pantheon, he needs them to have a balance to his story, and they can become important plot points later on. My distaste for Zora comes from her newness as well. Cantwell made her to be something like a grown-up Valeria Richards with power, filling that need Doom has for affection. But if Boris brings guilt to Doom by way of the loss of his granddaughter, wouldn't the same be true of Zora and her mother? Anyway, I admit that I was peeved at how Boris and Kristoff get thrown to the curb with last week's trash while Zora gets even more than a seat at Doom's side.

    I have other issues with Cantwell's take, including that Doom is not a coward, not in the least. Doom would not have gotten this far if he were. He acts out of anger, and pride and loss, yes, but not fear. His armor is not the outward manifestation of his fear but a tool by which he evens the playing field between him and the superpowered inhabitants of his world. It is also his retreat from his emotions. His whole being has been defined by love lost, the death of his mother and father, the persecution of his people in his homeland, and if he fears anything it is that he will feel what other men feel, that he will be manipulated by his own inability to control it. His rage is a manifestation of his loss, his armor is his protection against more loss.
    "Because ... I am Doom
    ... What Gods dare stand against me?"


    Posting from the dungeon of Castle Doom, Latveria

  14. #29
    Citizen of Atlantis ImperiusWrecked's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Atlantis
    Posts
    1,585

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    I think the problem with Doom becoming Infamous Iron Man was that he wanted immediate acceptance. For him, he just felt that by going forward as this new Iron Man would be enough to convince others that he was sincere. He was always going to have a problem with those who felt he did the crime but didn't do the time to prove that he had paid his dues. This is what the Victor in the other universe did. Now that other Victor was still a bit arrogant and was really not reading his other self very well. I don't want to say he caused his own death but he should have dialed it down.


    As for Zora, she has become quite prominent lately and if she appears anywhere it will probably be in Slott's Fantastic Four. That she has a some of the power cosmic is always going to make her more important to Doom than Kristoff unfortunately. I don't mind her presence as much as you do though. IMO almost any addition to Doom's supporting cast is welcome. At least Kristoff was rewarded with the title of governor of the Southern province of Latveria, formerly Symkaria. I hope that leads to some story potential with him.

    But I have to agree...why the hostility to Boris? That did come out of nowhere IMO. I guess we'll never know. My only thought is that one sometimes gets a sense from some of their encounters that Boris serves him out of fear and Doom knows this. And there could be some kind of need on Doom's part to do this to justify that he sold off Valeria to Mephisto. Does Boris know this? Does he ever wonder why she disappeared? I think Doom feels guilt over this and sometimes just seeing Boris may trigger that and it turned to anger.

    The part I think that needs to be revisited is that Doom already has a daughter that he has never met. And that is Doom's and Morgan Le Fey's daughter Caroline Le Fey. I really think she needs a major overhaul though. She was born in the past but her mother placed her in the near future at some point. Right now she is older than her father. She appeared only in Fearless Defenders a couple of years ago. I would rather they roll back her age to perhaps be no older than 17 or so. IIRC she is mostly human and I don't recall if she has her mother's near-immortality.

    To go off on a another tangent: At the end of Time Runs Out and before Secret Wars 2015 begins....we were only left with fragments of the Earths that were left. It seems to me that this means that the only survivors were those we saw in those different sections of Battleworld. For example Sue, Ben, Johnny, Franklin and Val were killed when their life raft was destroyed. When Reed got the Beyonder power from Molecule Man he got back his family so now he and Franklin could go about the task of rebooting everything. I assume it went back to the point where Black Swan first shows up in Wakanda. But how did Reed and Franklin pick and choose who would populate this rebooted universe. IMO they could just as easily brought back a lot of dead people if they didn't know they were dead. Why can't Doom's Valeria be alive back there living in Georgia as a fortune teller again?
    PLEASE Do not get me started on the end arc of Secret Wars etc. There is so much more problems it brings up than it solves! As you said: How did Reed and Franklin go around choosing who lives and who dies? Why were we shown an AU Namorita in the first issues of 2018 Fantastic Four but we couldn't get the real Namorita back since she has canonically been dead since the Stamford Incident? (not counting her au past timeline self who pops up from time to time) Namorita was once a friend of the Fantastic Four so why wouldn't they save her? Why is T'Challa and Namor STILL fighting if Hickman had said that timeline went back to before Shuri's attack of Atlantis and Namor telling Thanos and Co. to go to Wakanda? If the timeline was set back then they wouldn't have escalated the whole Atlantis vs Wakanda stuff. Just so many problems, while I like Hickman's take on Doom and others it just gives me a headache to think about how we got Doom with a chance to have different plotlines and yet he was hero worshipping Iron Man??? For some reason, when we all know the only Hero/Great Mind, Victor ever cared about impressing was Reed. True Reed was "dead" but I dislike how all these chances were squandered. I honestly think Cantwell also had a very different plan that was sidetracked due to The Powers that Be at Marvel swooping him up for the Iron Man comic which cut his timeline short for Doom. We were supposed to have 12 issues, then 11, and we got 10. So two issues are missing.

    Quote Originally Posted by DoomScribe View Post
    This is exactly right, and reflects my opinion as well. Like Iron Maiden, I don't mind new characters being added to Doom's pantheon, he needs them to have a balance to his story, and they can become important plot points later on. My distaste for Zora comes from her newness as well. Cantwell made her to be something like a grown-up Valeria Richards with power, filling that need Doom has for affection. But if Boris brings guilt to Doom by way of the loss of his granddaughter, wouldn't the same be true of Zora and her mother? Anyway, I admit that I was peeved at how Boris and Kristoff get thrown to the curb with last week's trash while Zora gets even more than a seat at Doom's side.

    I have other issues with Cantwell's take, including that Doom is not a coward, not in the least. Doom would not have gotten this far if he were. He acts out of anger, and pride and loss, yes, but not fear. His armor is not the outward manifestation of his fear but a tool by which he evens the playing field between him and the superpowered inhabitants of his world. It is also his retreat from his emotions. His whole being has been defined by love lost, the death of his mother and father, the persecution of his people in his homeland, and if he fears anything it is that he will feel what other men feel, that he will be manipulated by his own inability to control it. His rage is a manifestation of his loss, his armor is his protection against more loss.
    Doom literally faces down death, the devil and fights lions with his bare hands. He isn't a coward. I would say he has severe emotional issues that prey on his need for control and power but that isn't a fear. He doesn't fear failure, he wants to overcome it. I think Doom dislikes Chaos and wants to be the Order that manages things. His armor is a manifestation of him wanting to cut all earthly ties and become more than human, more than the emotional ties that hold him to this world, iirc Kirby said that his armor/mask was supposed to look like a skull and represent death. However as we have seen when Doom gets what he wants he is bored and unhappy, he lives for the challenge of conquering the unbeatable. Doom has lost people he loved when he was very young, and he had no power and no control over the situations which is why I believe he strives for as much control as possible. Even when you see Doom speaking to his Doom bots before the wormhole you see him speaking only to things that cannot contradict him, that he can control.

    I'm not saying he cannot have fear but I think him fearing his emotions so much that he blows up a whole world is not what he would do, but I do believe he would have killed his other self because he honestly has done that before in the past against other versions of himself. Doom is an emotional man, he strives for control, his armor and mask are used as a tool to mask up his emotions because he can't just control his expressions like Reed does.
    "No one should ever question where my allegiance lies." - Namor of Atlantis

  15. #30
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Latverian Embassy
    Posts
    16,681

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ImperiusWrecked View Post
    PLEASE Do not get me started on the end arc of Secret Wars etc. There is so much more problems it brings up than it solves! As you said: How did Reed and Franklin go around choosing who lives and who dies? Why were we shown an AU Namorita in the first issues of 2018 Fantastic Four but we couldn't get the real Namorita back since she has canonically been dead since the Stamford Incident? (not counting her au past timeline self who pops up from time to time) Namorita was once a friend of the Fantastic Four so why wouldn't they save her? Why is T'Challa and Namor STILL fighting if Hickman had said that timeline went back to before Shuri's attack of Atlantis and Namor telling Thanos and Co. to go to Wakanda? If the timeline was set back then they wouldn't have escalated the whole Atlantis vs Wakanda stuff. Just so many problems, while I like Hickman's take on Doom and others it just gives me a headache to think about how we got Doom with a chance to have different plotlines and yet he was hero worshipping Iron Man??? For some reason, when we all know the only Hero/Great Mind, Victor ever cared about impressing was Reed. True Reed was "dead" but I dislike how all these chances were squandered. I honestly think Cantwell also had a very different plan that was sidetracked due to The Powers that Be at Marvel swooping him up for the Iron Man comic which cut his timeline short for Doom. We were supposed to have 12 issues, then 11, and we got 10. So two issues are missing.



    Doom literally faces down death, the devil and fights lions with his bare hands. He isn't a coward. I would say he has severe emotional issues that prey on his need for control and power but that isn't a fear. He doesn't fear failure, he wants to overcome it. I think Doom dislikes Chaos and wants to be the Order that manages things. His armor is a manifestation of him wanting to cut all earthly ties and become more than human, more than the emotional ties that hold him to this world, iirc Kirby said that his armor/mask was supposed to look like a skull and represent death. However as we have seen when Doom gets what he wants he is bored and unhappy, he lives for the challenge of conquering the unbeatable. Doom has lost people he loved when he was very young, and he had no power and no control over the situations which is why I believe he strives for as much control as possible. Even when you see Doom speaking to his Doom bots before the wormhole you see him speaking only to things that cannot contradict him, that he can control.

    I'm not saying he cannot have fear but I think him fearing his emotions so much that he blows up a whole world is not what he would do, but I do believe he would have killed his other self because he honestly has done that before in the past against other versions of himself. Doom is an emotional man, he strives for control, his armor and mask are used as a tool to mask up his emotions because he can't just control his expressions like Reed does.
    I think too much is being made about Doom's counterpart saying he's afraid. As you say, this is not a fear of facing, death, or the Marvel equivalent of the Devil Himself. His counterpart talks of the deep wound and the anger "our Doom" still carries inside from the old days. He doesn't want to let that out and uses all the trappings, the mask, the armor, etc to hide that wound. He fears being found out that he is still vulnerable to the pain of those emotions. He wants distance between him and the rest of humanity so he wears the mask and the armor. Which reminds me....why doesn't Doom do something about his face? As the other Victor says he can repair his face. After all, this time it may be something more supernatural, something that he can probably fix himself or get Dr Strange's help.....but there's the catch. He probably is loathe to ask for such help. I think that right after he engaged that Ultimate Nullifier, he regretted it. We see him confess to Kang that "There's no good in me, Kang. There never was. And there never shall be. "in saecula saeculorum" , which appears in the last few captions of the story, come froms the Bible and means the ages of ages or forever. Now this could mean that Doom has finally given up on any type of epiphany that will change the man he has become. It's a sort of fatalism or a destiny he can't deny or change I guess.

    As for Reed, I always see him as more coldly rational at times but he does at least have a family life to balance that out. You look back at some of those old FF stories by Stan and Jack and he could be really insulting to the other members of the team. Doom has deep interests in both the arts and the sciences. The practice of magic is considered an art. He has an art collection and has a strong interest in music. We really don't see Reed display much interest in the arts at all.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •