Doctor Doom Appreciation - 2021

[ImperiusWrecked]

Yeah Romani would be better as the word gypsy has negative implications attached to it.
I really liked X-men Legends. Had a good chuckle when Doom fell off due to dizziness of high speed travel while refusing help.
By the way this may seem random but how does Tumblr work? Yesterday I saw yours and I wanna subscribe if that's possible.

Thank you and I agree that word definitely has negative implications.

Tumblr is pretty easy once you get the hang of it. Make an account, then follow who you like. There is a little heart to like posts. To reblog hit the reblog button and you can choose to add tags so you can search your posts later. To post just hit the post button, write/add pics and tag so it shows up in the main tumblr tags otherwise no one will find your posts and it will only be contained to your blog. Tagging is where most people mess up: see the little # symbol? That's the tagging button. Click that.(this is on mobile, desktop is same but different layout)
You type in your tags, for Doom posts I write: victor von doom the either hit the enter or the comma , symbol which acts as the end and completes the tag. Then I write doctor doom and do the same thing.

Screenshot_20210815-090512_Tumblr.jpg

The A is text post. The chain is if you want to link something from the internet. Gif is gif. Photo is for adding pic (only up to 10 on mobile but you can add more on desktop) head phones is for audio. Here's a link for more help:https://crello.com/blog/the-beginners-guide-to-tumblr/

Also I post Doom very sporadically since I post whatever I'm reading/thinking at the moment on my personal blog, my Namor sideblog is better for Namor content. But if you want excellent Doom content you should follow Doom Archives! I love their blog and they know so much about Doctor Doom.

http://doomarchives.tumblr.com

[Iron Maiden]

Thanks for the suggestion. And thanks for the tumblr link. I will add it to the first page links to Doom-centric stuff on the internet. BTW, it looks fairly new, unless I got the links wrong it looks like it started in April.

Doomscribe, a long time poster and long time Doom fan here has AFAIK the distinction of having the first Doom site on the internet called the Den of Madness. And I am talking about going back to the late 1990's and early 2000's IIRC. You might be able to find pieces of it on the Wayback machine.


But back to your suggestion: The reason why I put it "gypsy" is that it was used in the Doom 2099 series, but that was of course years ago. I will edit that as you say. Of course many of us grew up with that term. There is Esmeralda called a gypsy in the English translation of his Hunchback of Notre Dame. It also comes up quite often in the old Universal monster series of movies. An old "gyspy" woman frequently assisted the Lawrence Talbot character with the little poem (incantation?) ....
"Even a man who is pure in heart
and says his prayers by night,
May become a wolf when the wolfbane blooms,
And the moon is full and bright.”

But I digress ( a lot! ) and times change and we must move on.

Taking a look at our intro page I see I should update the collected editions. I will have to work on that. We have that Doctor Doom omnibus due out for 2022!

[Iron Maiden]

Yeah Romani would be better as the word gypsy has negative implications attached to it.
I really liked X-men Legends. Had a good chuckle when Doom fell off due to dizziness of high speed travel while refusing help.
By the way this may seem random but how does Tumblr work? Yesterday I saw yours and I wanna subscribe if that's possible.

Not to correct you but I am pretty sure that isn't exactly what happened Notice that they already arrived at the embassy in the panel and Doom says stand aside. Pietro says "he needed a minute" which I take to mean he had gotten nauseous.

[Doom'nGloom]

Not to correct you but I am pretty sure that isn't exactly what happened Notice that they already arrived at the embassy in the panel and Doom says stand aside. Pietro says "he needed a minute" which I take to mean he had gotten nauseous.

You're right, my bad . English is not my native language so sometimes I mix up words.

[Iron Maiden]

You're right, my bad . English is not my native language so sometimes I mix up words.

Don't worry. You're English is great. I looked at the panel very quickly on first reading and really didn't "catch it" until I went back and looked again!

While scouting around tumblr I saw this custom (not sure if it's licensed or not) Doom figure. link to Instagram page

[ImperiusWrecked]

Thanks for the suggestion. And thanks for the tumblr link. I will add it to the first page links to Doom-centric stuff on the internet. BTW, it looks fairly new, unless I got the links wrong it looks like it started in April.

Doomscribe, a long time poster and long time Doom fan here has AFAIK the distinction of having the first Doom site on the internet called the Den of Madness. And I am talking about going back to the late 1990's and early 2000's IIRC. You might be able to find pieces of it on the Wayback machine.


But back to your suggestion: The reason why I put it "gypsy" is that it was used in the Doom 2099 series, but that was of course years ago. I will edit that as you say. Of course many of us grew up with that term. There is Esmeralda called a gypsy in the English translation of his Hunchback of Notre Dame. It also comes up quite often in the old Universal monster series of movies. An old "gyspy" woman frequently assisted the Lawrence Talbot character with the little poem (incantation?) ....
"Even a man who is pure in heart
and says his prayers by night,
May become a wolf when the wolfbane blooms,
And the moon is full and bright.”

But I digress ( a lot! ) and times change and we must move on.

Taking a look at our intro page I see I should update the collected editions. I will have to work on that. We have that Doctor Doom omnibus due out for 2022!

Thank you! Yes, the term is widely used in popular culture so I understand why it was used and I feel the emphasis on Doctor Doom and even Quicksilver being Romani has been more in the last few years. Saladin Ahmed wrote about it in his 2018 Quicksilver solo and then we have the Cantwell 2019 Doom solo also talking about it. I sure hope we get a mention of Victor's heritage/mother/backstory in any future movies because it's what motivated him to be on the path of becoming Doom!

Also you are right! Doom Archives did start recently. I love getting to see the Doom art and content they post. I will be searching up Den of Maddness as well, I want to learn all about this character. So far this year I have been enjoying almost everything but I'm so over Slott's badly written Doom in Fantastic Four.

That Doom figure is impressive!

[DoomScribe]

I don't think anything exists of the original Den of Madness anymore.

I'm a little confused about when/how/why the term gypsy became a pejorative. (ah found this on Wiki - "The Romani people are widely known in English by the exonym Gypsies (or Gipsies),[69] which is considered by many Romani people to be pejorative due to its connotations of illegality and irregularity as well as its historical use as a racial slur.[70][71][72] In many other languages, regarding cognates of the word, such as French: Tzigane, Spanish: gitano, Italian: zingaro and Portuguese: cigano, this perception is either very small or non-existent.[73][74] At the first World Romani Congress in 1971, it was unanimously voted to reject all exonyms for the Romani people, including Gypsy for its aforementioned negative and stereotypical connotations.[71]")

In my experience the term was always used to describe a group of people who lived a nomadic lifestyle, not necessarily a particular race of people hence the confusion. The term race itself is a false categorizing of human beings, since we are all homo sapiens and there are no "breeds" of humans, just different phenotype expressions that tend to be commonly expressed in particular geographic regions of the globe. But humans like to divide things up so we are left with mostly inaccurate descriptors for different groups based on skin color, eye shape, religious affiliation or nationality that are easily confused or don't take into account the variations within each group. For instance in my generation, white anglo-saxon protestants of a particular lifestyle sometimes from affluent communities took to calling themselves "hippies" or "gypsies" interchangeably, before sometimes reverting to type, cutting their hair and getting jobs as accountants and lawyers. Anyway, in literature historically and in Marvel comics specifically the term has been used to describe Doom's heritage as well as many other characters as IM mentioned, many of whom more closely resembled Caucasians than any other ethnicity.

Anyway, "Romani" or "Roma" would be a more accurate description of Doom's familial origins. I'm just averse to words in general being taboo because of some perceived harm - whether you call it cancel culture or censorship or what not - they cannot be erased from the historical lexicon. So we should understand what they mean, where they came from and how they were used, but recognize that not all Roma are gypsies, and not all gypsies are Roma.

ok sorry for the rant ... it's hot and my electric bill is going though the roof along with the covid pandemic, so humanity is not my favorite subject right now.

[Iron Maiden]

Very good post Doomscribe. The only thing I would add is that the word "gypsy" came about because when the Romani migrated from northern India many centuries ago, the Europeans thought they were Egyptian. I wonder if some took a route through what we now know as Iran, Pakistan & Turkey and first came to Southern Europe via Italy, etc. I'd also like to point out the late Egyptian actor Omar Shariff, who made his mark as Sherif Ali in Lawrence of Arabia (a classic film that everyone should see at least once IMO) also played the Jewish husband of Fannie Brice, Nick Arnstein in "Funny Girl", a Mexican bandit in "McKenna's Gold" and a Russian as the title character in "Doctor Zhivago" ! A very versatile actor and it just shows how confusing this can all be!


I will let you know if I have any luck with the Wayback machine. One never knows what it will turn up.

[ImperiusWrecked]

There is this really good article Ta-Nehisi Coates did that also talked about how he saw Victor in relation to the word, I read it on the main page! I know Marvel definitely used gypsy for decades but now that a more accurate term to describe Victor's origins has been used I think it's better as there are very few Romani characters who have any kind of significance in popular culture. I would even say Doctor Doom is the most popular modern figure aside from the Maximoff Twins. However the way the MCU has treated Pietro & Wanda's origins has been terrible and I just hope Doom is treated better. I really want to have a more accurate version of Doctor Doom on screen as the only one I ever really liked was from the 1994 Fantastic Four, maybe we can get a Hickman Doom on screen someday.

[Iron Maiden]

There is this really good article Ta-Nehisi Coates did that also talked about how he saw Victor in relation to the word, I read it on the main page! I know Marvel definitely used gypsy for decades but now that a more accurate term to describe Victor's origins has been used I think it's better as there are very few Romani characters who have any kind of significance in popular culture. I would even say Doctor Doom is the most popular modern figure aside from the Maximoff Twins. However the way the MCU has treated Pietro & Wanda's origins has been terrible and I just hope Doom is treated better. I really want to have a more accurate version of Doctor Doom on screen as the only one I ever really liked was from the 1994 Fantastic Four, maybe we can get a Hickman Doom on screen someday.

My fear is that they will neglect MCU Victor's ethnicity as much as they have with MCU Pietro & Wanda. Even worse, they may not even use Latveria as his homeland.

I had a very *interesting* encounter with Storm fans on the X-Men board when I made some posts in their review thread of Sword #7. You wouldn't believe the replies that came back when I pointed out that Victor was not white then linked and quoted Coates's article (Interestingly enough, he wrote it long before he began writing for Marvel ) A number of them didn't even know Victor is a Roma. I try not to but I pointed out how sometimes there is a tendency for fans of a character to be in a silo and have blinders to the merits of other characters. It becomes more of a battle board discussion of who can whup who, etc. I think our threads both this one and Namor's, try to do far more than that. I'm not adverse to discussing the times when Doom isn't successful or has some silly moments like the one in X-Men Legends. well, now I've gone and digressed to much again.

[Iron Maiden]

Monday is starting out with a bang (I guess). Marvel announced today that there will be a special event to mark the 750 issues of the Avengers. Link to Article at Newsarama


The good part: Doctor Doom will play a major role
The bad part: It will be written by Jason Aaron



The current World War She Hulk will lead into this event. I'm assuming this will be all contained in the 96 page special issue. I'm betting that it will be another $9.99 comic just like the special FF issue coming out last month.

This version of Doom on the cover is a bit strange...it's like it represents a mash up of different Doom-centric stories. The body armor looks like the Unthinkable skin armor (I was hoping never to see that again) and the fur trimmed cloak can be from any number of stories. Recently this look was used in PAD's War and Pax mini. I have not idea why his hands are bandaged unless this Doom had a recent battle with the Thing just like in FF #40.

Since Doom will be leading this new version of the Multiversal Masters of Evil I guess it safe to assume this is AU version of Doom. The rest of the team will be villains from the recent lackluster Heroes Reborn mini. I am not sure who the woman is next to Doom but she sort of looks like Mistress Death.

[ImperiusWrecked]

My fear is that they will neglect MCU Victor's ethnicity as much as they have with MCU Pietro & Wanda. Even worse, they may not even use Latveria as his homeland.

I had a very *interesting* encounter with Storm fans on the X-Men board when I made some posts in their review thread of Sword #7. You wouldn't believe the replies that came back when I pointed out that Victor was not white then linked and quoted Coates's article (Interestingly enough, he wrote it long before he began writing for Marvel ) A number of them didn't even know Victor is a Roma. I try not to but I pointed out how sometimes there is a tendency for fans of a character to be in a silo and have blinders to the merits of other characters. It becomes more of a battle board discussion of who can whup who, etc. I think our threads both this one and Namor's, try to do far more than that. I'm not adverse to discussing the times when Doom isn't successful or has some silly moments like the one in X-Men Legends. well, now I've gone and digressed to much again.

Oh that is the same fear I have! Victor's been through 3 adaptations and I would love for them to get it accurate at least once (my love for 1994 Doom aside, lol) I feel they keep holding back with Victor, I would love to see him have a solo movie that shows his childhood > college > becoming Doom > accession to the throne > his vow to free his mother from Mephisto. He really deserves to be portrayed as an intellectual powerhouse and I feel only a FF or solo Doom movie will do that because Avengers movies are so meh.

Having been entrenched in tumblr/twitter marvel comic fandom for many years now I know exactly what you are talking about. I certainly hope they didn't say that Victor is some white racist/colonizer. I love and adore Storm, she is one of my top X-Men characters. But Storm and just about any X character have a legion of fans who think their character is the only one who can do no wrong (not saying Storm is wrong, just generally speaking) and I feel (know) that X-Fans don't read non-X-men comics so it's disappointing but not surprising that they don't know anything of Doctor Doom since iirc, Doom has only majorly interacted with the X-Men on 3 to 4 occasions.

I personally love villainous or morally grey characters above the other heroes. I know Doom is supposed to be a villain and to many he is, but that isn't all there is to the character. He is very complex and also has undergone oppression and racism due to his heritage/background. People who dismiss Doom or try to shoehorn him into one mold are only depriving themselves of how amazing this character is. I like the serious moments far more than the silly but I def get a chuckle when I remember him trying to fight off squirrels. lol

[Iron Maiden]

Oh that is the same fear I have! Victor's been through 3 adaptations and I would love for them to get it accurate at least once (my love for 1994 Doom aside, lol) I feel they keep holding back with Victor, I would love to see him have a solo movie that shows his childhood > college > becoming Doom > accession to the throne > his vow to free his mother from Mephisto. He really deserves to be portrayed as an intellectual powerhouse and I feel only a FF or solo Doom movie will do that because Avengers movies are so meh.

Having been entrenched in tumblr/twitter marvel comic fandom for many years now I know exactly what you are talking about. I certainly hope they didn't say that Victor is some white racist/colonizer. I love and adore Storm, she is one of my top X-Men characters. But Storm and just about any X character have a legion of fans who think their character is the only one who can do no wrong (not saying Storm is wrong, just generally speaking) and I feel (know) that X-Fans don't read non-X-men comics so it's disappointing but not surprising that they don't know anything of Doctor Doom since iirc, Doom has only majorly interacted with the X-Men on 3 to 4 occasions.

I personally love villainous or morally grey characters above the other heroes. I know Doom is supposed to be a villain and to many he is, but that isn't all there is to the character. He is very complex and also has undergone oppression and racism due to his heritage/background. People who dismiss Doom or try to shoehorn him into one mold are only depriving themselves of how amazing this character is. I like the serious moments far more than the silly but I def get a chuckle when I remember him trying to fight off squirrels. lol

Well said IW. I hope the morally grey Doom is what is brought into the MCU. Things have been very quiet on the Fantastic Four front. I forgot they did announce a director for the Fantastic Four but I've seen no news about who is working on a script. As I mentioned before, Noah Hawley developed a Doctor Doom script for Fox but by then Fox was starting to give up on their Marvel properties.

As for the Squirrel Girl story, it was an obscure piece in the old Marvel Superheroes series and was largely forgotten until in the early days of the internet someone devoted a page to her. I had never seen this story mentioned anywhere and then it seemed to get a life of its own. Then it got really ridiculous when no one could beat her, Thanos and a few other heavy hitters (off panel thought IIRC). Anyway IMO I don't think anything connected to her should be considered canon but that's a losing battle.

[Coatl]

I'm a little confused about when/how/why the term gypsy became a pejorative. (ah found this on Wiki - "The Romani people are widely known in English by the exonym Gypsies (or Gipsies),[69] which is considered by many Romani people to be pejorative due to its connotations of illegality and irregularity as well as its historical use as a racial slur.[70][71][72] In many other languages, regarding cognates of the word, such as French: Tzigane, Spanish: gitano, Italian: zingaro and Portuguese: cigano, this perception is either very small or non-existent.[73][74] At the first World Romani Congress in 1971, it was unanimously voted to reject all exonyms for the Romani people, including Gypsy for its aforementioned negative and stereotypical connotations.[71]")

Well that explain a lot. Spanish is my native lenguage and I have spoken with some "romani" people and well, call them Gitanos (Gypsis) because my family, friends and themselves call them that way, there is not negative stigma in the word as far as I know. I didn't even know abut the Romani definition until a couple years ago.

So when writting on this forum I was surprised when got lectured about how I was being racist and insensitive, calling slurs to the "Romani" people because I used the traductor and it got me "Gypsi" as the literal traduction of "Gitano" and write it that way.

Being honest I had similar problems with the word "afroamerican" who hasn't a lot of sense to me, but I don't want to open a controversy here just point that if sometimes I don't use the "right" word is not because racism just because I was raised in a place were those definitions dosen't mattered that much.

Said that hell yes, I want to see Doom on movies focusing a bit on his past and how the the way of life of his people and maybe also the racism they suffered affected him.

[ImperiusWrecked]

Well said IW. I hope the morally grey Doom is what is brought into the MCU. Things have been very quite on the Fantastic Four front. I forgot they did announce a director for the Fantastic Four but I've seen no news about who is working on a script. As I mentioned before, Noah Hawley developed a Doctor Doom script for Fox but by then Fox was starting to give up on their Marvel properties.

As for the Squirrel Girl story, it was an obscure piece in the old Marvel Superheroes series and was largely forgotten until in the early days of the internet someone devoted a page to her. I had never seen this story mentioned anywhere and then it seemed to get a life of its own. Then it got really ridiculous when no one could be her, Thanos and a few other heavy hitters (off panel thought IIRC). Anyway IMO I don't think anything connected to her should be considered canon but that's a losing battle.

LOL it's one of those funny one off comic things that are just nice to have fun with. Also the Spidey Stories Doom is very funny. I think Doom has outgrown the "twirling mustached villain" of the 60s, I can't pinpoint exactly when that was dropped for the more serious Doom of today but hopefully I will see his growth as I read through more of his comics.

Me and several other FF fans have been keeping a close eye on the FF official twitter but it hasn't posted anything except the director's name as of yet. https://twitter.com/FantasticFour